PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[minazoe]

If someone is mobbed up and the issue is a proclivity for young boys...it might not fly...not under that guise, it would just be a problem, a problem with this prosecutor who has some information.

How the hell did this little boy blue foster kid center continue to operate for as long as it did? WOW.

 

[TheDuchess]

Let's just say that Ray's case has certainly gotten a LOT more interesting!

I am convinced that the two cases are related. Too coincidental not to be.

Suicide over guilt maybe? Maybe he felt guilty for not pursuing it? Maybe pressured not to pursue it? Erasing laptops and then disappearing? I vote he's somewhere right now watching this story unfold. JMO.

 

[TheDuchess]

A professional hitman would not smoke at the crime scene. They would know better than to leave behind evidence/DNA. JMO.

 

[minazoe]

Why did he have this little used laptop with him.

how do you know it was little used? how do you know he wasn't meeting someone with it...to prove he destroyed it or that he wasn't using it for a highly inflammatory case he was working on?

Maybe he went for a drive to see if it would shake someone who was watching him.

A laptop is totally portable, that's why you have one...so if you want to go for a drive or whatever on a day off..you can take it and check in...if it has VPN you can hook up with your office.

so I dont find it odd in the least.

 

[minazoe]

yes, I can also see Ray driving out there, walking around for awhile with someone important to him or someone he met with to tie up loose ends. Maybe he pre-destroys his hard drive already and then double destroys it by whipping it into the water...

then he runs like in The Fugitive.

 

[SeekingJana]

There are now over a dozen threads on this case. Before you come and start asking questions which have been thoroughly answered in the past, isn't it the WS way to read up on a case first? NONE of the known facts about Gricar's disappearance have changed at all. Only the possible reasons for the leave-taking or involuntary missing status have changed. Prior to the Sandusky sex scandal, there were little to no known mitigating factors for Gricar to have disappeared. Now there potentially are at least 2 compelling reasons: What Gricar knew, and possibly what a criminal element was afraid he would do with his knowledge. The second part does cause me to wonder-- Why would a criminal element wipe out a DA who was about to leave office, his investigation into Sandusky closed 7 years earlier, his office not handling any of the other cases? As I said yesterday, it would seem to me that Gricar was the safest DA in PA before this case went to the AG.

I suppose it is quite likely that we can never know if the older, former work laptop PC contained images of child *advertiser censored* or other personallydamaging material which came from or were related to Sandusky's case, but I know that's what some people are starting to wonder. I am skepical as to whether there was any professional reason to drop the investigation into Victim 6's charges against Sandusky or whether money talked and Gricar walked, whether he walked due to his own guilty knowledge, or whether he was forced to either expose the PSU scandal at some point or leave.

Also, the entirity of the incidents related to the laptop and HD dumping in the Susq. River are weird for a person who just wanted to get away and start a new life. Without the knowledge of the Sandusky case, they are total overkill.
In any case, IF the HD was already erased using a program purchased for that purpose, then the computer being dumped and the HD being separately dumped were not necessary UNLESS someone, either Gricar alone, or Gricar + an as yet unknown person knew the contents of the laptop would taint Gricar's image and the question of where the laptop was after Gricar disappeared would cause him to still have a target on his back or for Patty and possibly Lara to be in jeopardy.It is foolhardy to believe that Sandusky and perhaps others as yet unnamed did not have enormous resources in place to protect Sandusky. He was apparently wealthy. What was the source of his wealth? Was it from PSU or other endeavors such as child *advertiser censored*? Has anyone other than me even wondered?

Sometimes, even the best of good people have a vulnerability which can be exploited by the right person at the right time. World leaders have been brought down via personal weaknesses involving bribes, women, drugs, illegal activies of another type which were meant to be covert in nature. Why NOT a DA who seemed to be on top of his game, but was handed a time bomb when he was the one to get Victim 6's case?
IF he was in cahoots with Sandusky and possibly a child *advertiser censored* ring, I wouldn't be susprised at this point. I pozfed a theory here on WS in the past involving *advertiser censored* as a reason to be so absolutely obsessed with erasing the HD for over a year before he disapeared. It was a complete hypothetical at that point, with me thinking of what would absolutely cause a need to " escape" his errors. Tthere was no hint of proof at all at that point. There is no proof at this point, but there is reason to believe it is a possibility. Again, if the HD contained no readable info, it's not going to suddenly show anything. We may never know what he knew or did specifically unless or until he is found. OR perhaps the Sandusky investigation and prosecution will produce information about Gricar's actions which are now sealed as part of the investigation into his disappearance.

J.J. and I were talking about exactly what things could be so bad as to cause Gricar to disappear shortly before his retirement. I said I believed it was something so horrible that if it was found out, it would hurt those who cared about Gricar and would cause him to be a pariah in society.
Apply those 2 statements to Jerry Sandusky ( and at least 5 other people who are documented to know about the sex abuse but who did not act) today. Wouldn't we all say the hurt to people who even know, maybe don't even care about them personally, is great? And can't we reliably say that these men are already pariahs? Joe Paterno has been fired. The Assistant Coach who SAW a child being raped in a shower, Michael McCreary was fired, I read this AM.

Ray Gricar had a larger responsibility to protect children than any of the coaches and other PSU staffers who are now facing legal action.

Can Gricar be found, or his remains be found? I think anyone can be found. The question has changed to " Is he important enough to this case to bring in the agencies who can search globally for Gricar?"
IF my suspicions about where he got his money to leave and live a life of comfort are correct, then he possibly committed actions which fall under the federal RICO Act. If he has the knowledge which I believe he has, then the " long arm of US law" needs to use their resources to find him.

JMO.

 

[minazoe]

Maybe the fresh dug grave was meant for someone, but then that someone got away.

 

[RubyRed]

Timeline​

·

2004 - Gricar purchased a red Mini Cooper as a gift for his girlfriend Patty Fornicola and the vehicle is titled in her name. A new desktop computer is also purchased for the home and reportedly Gricar’s lap top is not being used and is kept in Fornicola's upstairs closet. Fornicola has her own laptop at work and access to another.

· January 2005 - Girlfriend Patty Fornicola changed from a Victim Advocate to Clerical position at the Centre County courthouse and moves into the same area where Gricar works.

· March 9, 2005 - Gricar described as "not with it" by a colleague at a death penalty hearing as Gricar states he would not be present at the time of trial. Family say he had a planned vacation for that time period.

· March 31, 2005 - Gricar and Attorney General Tom Corbett announce a large heroin bust naming several individuals and key player “Taji Verbal Lee.”

· April 2005 - Girlfriend Patty Fornicola states that Gricar was working hard and taking more naps during this period and that she had suggested he see a doctor. (Police later get a warrant for Gricar’s medical records and find no history of depression or any medical issues.)

· April 11, 2005 - Gricar described as "deeply distraught" during this week by a colleague.

· April 14, 2005 - Gricar attends a Prison Board meeting at approx 8:30 am. He is later described as acting normally at this meeting.

· April 14, 2005 - Daughter Lara Gricar phones Gricar from Washington and says their conversation was normal.

· April 14, 2005 - Gricar's office door is forcefully closed several times mid afternoon per a colleague. Gricar had a habit of forcefully closing his door per a colleague.

· April 14, 2005 - Gricar and girlfriend Patty Fornicola are seen walking in Tallyrand Park by a Centre County Commissioner approx 5:30pm. Gricar is described as "depressed looking" as neither he nor his girlfriend respond to a compliment of being the perfect couple. The Commissioner cannot recall what Gricar or Fornicola were wearing during this walk (office attire or casual clothing.)

· April 14, 2005 - Gricar is seen in courthouse surveillance video entering the courthouse at approx 6:15 pm to do some work, and is seen leaving approx 9:15 pm. He is wearing blue jeans, sneakers and a blue fleece jacket. He is not carrying his laptop computer. This is the same outfit he is reportedly wearing when missing.

· April 15, 2005 - Girlfriend Patty Fornicola states that Gricar woke up and told her he was going to take 1/2 the day off from work and then he went back to sleep. She left him a note instructing that if he went anywhere, to let her know so that she could make arrangements to let the dog out at noon.

· April 15, 2005 - A call is placed to girlfriend Patty Fornicola at the Centre County courthouse at approx 11:30 am from Gricar's cell phone indicating that he is on Highway 192 (heading toward Lewisburg) and that he is taking the other 1/2 of the day off from work, and that he would not be home at noon to let the dog out. Several other office employees were out of the office or not working that day.

· April 15, 2005 - Girlfriend Patty Fornicola arrives home from work at approx 5:00pm and Gricar has not left her a note as she reportedly expected, and she heads to the gym. Normally she and Gricar would always go out to eat at the Gamble Mill Inn each Friday. It’s reported that Fornicola thought he had maybe stopped somewhere to eat when he wasn’t home at this time.

· April 15, 2005 - Girlfriend Patty Fornicola does not phone Gricar's family or friends, but phones her brother Tom Fornicola at approx 8:30pm as she is worried because Gricar has still not arrived home.

· April 15, 2005 - Girlfriend Patty Fornicola phones Bellefonte Police at approx 11:30pm to report Gricar as missing. Policeman Holliday contacts chief of police Duane Dixon who advises to send a message to other area police departments.

· April 16, 2005 - Bellefonte Policeman Darrel Zaccagni is assigned the case and begins working the case approx 11:30am with a BOLO, and initiates air & ground searches from Centre Hall to Madisonburg along Hwy 192, and girlfriend Patty Fornicola notifies Gricar's family members by phone that he did not come home the prior evening. Clerical staff at the courthouse provides Gricar's computer password and police look at his office computer for any signs/clues. It’s reported that Patty Fornicola is monitoring Gricar’s email accounts (as she knows the passwords.)

· April 16, 2005 - A state trooper finds the red Mini Cooper parked across the street from the Street of Shops antiques/flea market in Lewisburg, PA, a familiar place to Gricar and girlfriend Patty Fornicola, at approx 6:30pm with Gricar's cell phone – turned off - inside. The car is taken to the Milton State Police barracks for forensic processing.

· April 17, 2005 - The red Mini Cooper is returned to girlfriend Patty Fornicola. Bellefonte Police Chief Duane Dixon says that no "strangers" prints were found in the car. A small amount of cigarette ash is found on the passenger floorboard.

· April 17, 2005 - Search dogs are brought to Lewisburg (after the car has been moved) and find no trail of Gricar from where his vehicle had been parked at the Street of Shops, even though witnesses claimed to have seen him in surrounding areas there. The dogs “circled” the area where the car had been parked. Dogs did not find Gricar’s scent at the Street of Shops where witnesses claim to have seen him, nor did they find his scent at the river (where the laptop and hard drive were later located.)

· April 17, 2005 - Girlfriend Patty Fornicola determines for Bellefonte Police that Gricar's county issued laptop is missing from the upstairs closet at the home. The case and peripherals are still in the closet. Police do not fingerprint the case.

· April 18, 2005 - Police learn that the vehicle had "secret compartments" that were not checked at the Milton barracks. They check them after the car has already been returned to Patty Fornicola but find nothing.

· April 18, 2005 - FBI is asked to assist in the case. They find no credit card or banking activity by Gricar. They review hundreds of hours of surveillance tapes from surrounding businesses but don't find any photos of Gricar.

· April 18, 2005 - A Milton State Police profiler meets with girlfriend Patty Fornicola, Stephen Sloane and others, and concludes that Gricar committed suicide.

· April 20, 2005 - A massive search of the river at Lewisburg is conducted with police, divers, boats and cadaver dogs but they find no trace of Gricar.

· July 13, 2005 - It is announced that girlfriend Patty Fornicola will be taking a polygraph.

· July 15, 2005 - It is announced that girlfriend Patty Fornicola had nothing to do with the disappearance per polygraph questioning. It is reported that Bellefonte Police sent the polygraph results for overview and are awaiting “official results.”

· July 30, 2005 - Two fishermen find Gricar's laptop lodged against a bridge support under the bridge over the Susquehanna River at Lewisburg. The hard drive had been removed.

· September 15, 2005 - It is announced that daughter Lara Gricar also had nothing to do with the disappearance per polygraph questioning.

· October 1, 2005 - The hard drive is found *upstream* from where the laptop was found, near a park and abandoned railroad bridge.

· January 17, 2006 - Police say that they are leaning more toward foul play as opposed to walkaway or suicide.

· January 2007 - Numerous sightings of Gricar cannot be corroborated with any other evidence. Darrel Zaccagni comments that as more time passes that it looks more like a possible homicide. He is then "removed" from the case.

· Feb 2008 - it's reported that there were in fact *no* identifiable fingerprints actually found in the Mini Cooper by Matt Rickard, who now handles the investigation. It's never been reported if any prints were found on Gricar's cellphone.

· July 2008 - Officials in surrounding counties criticize the Gricar investigation (or lack thereof.) Friend and DA Bob Buehner believes that Gricar was murdered. Bob Buehner suggests that the hard drive be sent to Kroll Ontrak to see if any data can be recovered. It is determined to be too damaged.

· October 2008 - It was reported that Gricar had inquired in the past about how to erase a hard drive in preparation for retirement and returning his county owned laptop back to the county, and girlfriend Patty Fornicola had told police that Gricar had a software box for hard drive erasing software at one time in their home but the software and/or the box were never located. Michael Madeira said there was no evidence it was ever purchased, ever there or ever used.

· April 2009 - Matt Rickard said it is still very much an *active* investigation.

· April 14, 2009 - Law enforcement release info that Gricar had done various searches on his home computer on ways to destroy a hard drive, about a month before he vanished.. However, they have no way of proving who actually used the computer. Law enforcement discovered these computer searches in approx October 2006 during a PSP review of the case. They also claim that the hard drive erasing software had indeed been purchased (which conflicts with other accounts.)

· November 2009 – Stacy Parks Miller is elected as the new District Attorney of Centre County and vows to “tear thru” the case file on Gricar’s disappearance. It was previously reported that there is only a “banker’s box of evidence” on the case. She fires Gricar’s best friend and assistant DA Stephen Sloane. Girlfriend Patty Fornicola transfers to a position with the DUI court.

· March 2010 – Nothing new has been reported yet on the status of Stacy Parks Miller’s review. Bob Buehner comments to the Daily Times that intentional walkaway theories are nonsense, and that common sense and evidence point to Gricar having committed suicide or being a victim of homicide. He’s previously stated several times that he believes Gricar was murdered.

March 31, 2010 - It's announced that new District Atty Stacy Parks Miller has assembled a task force - comprised of former and new investigators to work the case. She states that after reviewing the case file & evidence that she was surprised to learn that there was much more to the past investigation than what the public was privy to - that what had been reported was only "the tip of the iceberg." She states that her personal opinion is that homicide is the least likely scenario but that "nothing is off the table." The fact that none of the reported witness sightings of Gricar were ever confirmed is repeated.

April 15, 2011 - 6 year anniversary of Gricar's disappearance passes by quietly. His local newspaper doesn't even do an article.




https://sites.google.com/site/raygricar/timeline


This seems like a fairly well thought out timeline. It may be helpful to those trying to get caught up on the case.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just saw the promo. Gricar connection on Fox tomorrow 9:00 PM Eastern.

 

[minazoe]

so he had a secretish laptop did he?

up in the closet....hmmmm....nice shiny new lap top....in the closet......

all rightie then.

 

[minazoe]

in my opinion they need to account for every child who has passed thru that center.

 

[SeekingJana]

Maybe the fresh dug grave was meant for someone, but then that someone got away.

MAYBE the "freshy dug grave" was for a large family pet, or maybe it was somthing related to PSU, if it ever existed at all.
SOME statements lack any credibility.
The story about a grave is one of them. Where are the cell phone pics? Where was the 911 call?
Not buying it at all in relationship to what is known about Ray Gricar.
Besides, who digs a grave, then leaves it for " someone" to find? This is not the Hardy Boys mysteries.

 

[minazoe]

MAYBE the "freshy dug grave" was for a large family pet, or maybe it was somthing related to PSU, if it ever existed at all.
SOME statements lack any credibility.
The story about a grave is one of them. Where are the cell phone pics? Where was the 911 call?
Not buying it at all in relationship to what is known about Ray Gricar.
Besides, who digs a grave, then leaves it for " someone" to find? This is not the Hardy Boys mysteries.

oh I know, I was just adding it for spice...it is a very unusual account though,
also if you dug it for a large pet, then it would just make sense to go ahead and put the dead pet in it then, no?

digging a grave is not childs play.

not that I believe it ...seriously

 

[RubyRed]

Some things that bother me:

* the day before on video he is wearing the same clothes he goes missing in the next day.

* He calls girlfriend and is very specific about exactly where he is.

* So why then was he expected to leave a note, he had called.

* GF starts worrying at 8:30, calls her brother. ( this seems early to start worrying imo)

* His family is notified the following morning he did not arrive home. ( wouldn't this be done before police are called, to see if he was with any of them, but it isn't)

* Secret compartments in the vehicle that were not checked.

Like I said earlier some strange things in this case.

 

[liz b.]

I think it is interesting to bring up a possible mob connection-I think that this seems possible given the money in sports and in betting.

Would they support a pedophile however? I mean, this would be a situation that was bound to come out.

Mob ? Grew up in a neighborhood with a lot of such connections.IMO they will support anything that contributes to their flow of $$ MOO

 

[Dogface]

Considering he admitted to what he was ultimately charged with, and they actually had more evidence, a second victim, I''d say no.



It wasn't his work hard drive; it was his laptop, that was rarely used. He had a home and an office computer.



We don't know what was on that computer, obviously.

It had previously been used in lieu of the home computer; a regular home computer was purchased around Christmas 2004. It could innocuous things on it, like credit card numbers. RFG had started asking about how to get rid of the data on it in early 2004.

I don't really like where my mind is wondering.

I admittedly did my catching up on wiki(shame on me) after someone linked the Ray Gricar page and it stated it was a county issued laptop...but it was actual a personal computer that only he used? That really makes you go :waitasec:

 

[liz b.]

Some things that bother me:

* the day before on video he is wearing the same clothes he goes missing in the next day.

* He calls girlfriend and is very specific about exactly where he is.

* So why then was he expected to leave a note, he had called.

* GF starts worrying at 8:30, calls her brother. ( this seems early to start worrying imo)

* His family is notified the following morning he did not arrive home. ( wouldn't this be done before police are called, to see if he was with any of them, but it isn't)

* Secret compartments in the vehicle that were not checked.

Like I said earlier some strange things in this case.

Same clothing ? that is strange... also, not calling family members to see if he was there ? MOO

 

[TheDuchess]

Girlfriend passed LDT. Just saying. FWIW. Daughter also passed one.

 

[eriklatranyi]

Secret compartments in the vehicle?

It is more likely that they did not do a thorough search the first time with knowledge about the compartments that can be found in a Mini Cooper.

 

[asp17061]

what is the freshly dug grave?

This is the first I'm reading about it...

Also, after thinking about it, I don't think his vanishing has anything to do with the Sandusky cover-up, beyond declining to prosecute. Mark Madden's rumours are just that, rumours, until more news comes out or he reveals his sources. And while I do lean toward foul-play, it's not related to this.