PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

[dulldullmike]

The cell phone/landline records.

Were these calls made from RG's house, his cell, and office, or PF's?

 

[Kittybunny]

Well, RK's conclusions might not be good, but she just downloaded the PSP-CIA report. Tell me if anything sounds familiar.

I admit I haven't followed some of the investigative trails, and it may not even be public, but do we know how many of these they actually did?

One thing that does stand out is that none of these actions point to a strong theory of the case, they are basically actions that you take to rule possibilities out or in.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I admit I haven't followed some of the investigative trails, and it may not even be public, but do we know how many of these they actually did?

One thing that does stand out is that none of these actions point to a strong theory of the case, they are basically actions that you take to rule possibilities out or in.

Some. They did check satellite photos. Some they did not, i.e. a forensic audit.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

He had decades of law enforcement experience he would've easily been able to spot someone following him

Welcome to or merry band of posters.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Were these calls made from RG's house, his cell, and office, or PF's?

Both, look at the bottom of the page. The key is down there.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is an updated timeline, running until the morning of 4/16/05:


Friday, 4/15/05

6:00-8:15 AM: RFG gets up, but tells PEF he is going to "play hooky." PEF gets ready for work, leaves RFG a note stating to call her if he cannot let the dog, Honey, out. RFG asleep when she goes to work.

10:31 AM: AC contractor, calls house and speaks to RFG about some repairs. Call lasts 17 seconds.


11:03 AM: 13 Second call to house landline from Bellefonte.

11:00-11:30: Lawyer sees RFG driving on Route 144 driving toward Centre Hall.

11:12 AM: RFG calls Courthouse (through the switchboard) and is connected to his office. PEF, covering the phone for another clerical worker, answers. RFG sounds a bit startled, according to PEF. RFG says he is one Route 192, heading toward Lewisburg, and cannot let Honey out. Call originated along Route 192 about a mile outside of Centre Hall.

11:30-11:35: County worker sees RFG turning from Route 144 on to Route 192. He was driving very fast.

Noon to 1:00 PM, time given as "lunch time," probably 12:15-12:45 PM Employee at the Packwood House Museum (Ms. Snyder), and at least two other people saw RFG park the Mini across the street (Water Street). He got out and sat on a park bench. He appeared to carrying something.

c. 3:00 PM Carolyn Fenton (then clerking for Judge David Grine) reported seeing RFG in a "metallic colored car" behind the Centre County Courthouse in Bellefonte. Judge Grine also remembers seeing RFG there, but cannot remember if it was on 4/14 or 4/15.

[As previously noted, the area is covered by security cameras. Gricar did not show up on the tape (though Fenton did). It is possible that RFG was not at the spot where Fenton remembers him, but was along the street, out of camera range. ]

4:00-5:00 PM Donald Houser heading south on Route 15 sees RFG pull in beside him at a traffic light near the Country Cupboard. (This is "McKnight's Witness.") Houser, who was active in Republican politics in the area, recognized RFG at the time.

5:30-6:30 PM At least two people see RFG moving the Mini in the parking lot across from the Street of Shops (SoS) in Lewisburg.

6:58 PM PEF call RFG’s cellphone from house landline (as with subsequent calls). Call lasts 31 seconds.


6:00-8:00 PM Store owner in the SoS, Brad Alvey, reported seeing RFG. At least two witnesses report seeing RFG in the SoS with the "Mystery Woman." That may or may not include Alvey.


07:29 PM: Call from unknown source made to house landline. Call lasts 36 seconds. (Possibly PEF call brother and brother returning call.)


8:33 PM: PEF call RFG’s cellphone. Call lasts 7 seconds.


8:54 PM: PEF call RFG’s cellphone. Call lasts 29 seconds.


9:57 PM: PEF call RFG’s cellphone. Call lasts 29 seconds.


11:03 PM: PEF call RFG’s cellphone. Call lasts 32 seconds.


11:36 PM: PEF calls the Bellefonte Police Department (BPD), after repeated efforts to call RFG's cell phone go unanswered. Call lasts 1:28.

(After consulting with then BPD Chief Duane Dixon, BPD issued a BOLA on the Mini and RFG, possibly after midnight)

Saturday, 4/16/05

12:21 AM: Call to cell phone, presumably from BPD, from a State College number. Call lasts 43 seconds.

01:48 AM: PEF calls RFG’s cellphone. Call lasts 29 seconds.

08:24 AM: PEF calls RFG’s cellphone. Call lasts 31 second.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The is a possible anomaly.

There is a call at 11:03 AM from the County Courthouse to the residence. If that call was completed to RFG, and it looks like it was, there is no way that RFG could have called PEF from Route 192 at 11:12 AM. It is about a 9-10 mile drive, some of which is through streets in Centre Hall and Bellefonte. It would have, on top of that, taken a few second to leave the house, get in the Mini and get it up to full speed.

I am told that the witness, the county worker, had a time receipt that showed that she saw the Mini turning onto Route 192. It put the time of the of RFG's turn at between 11:30 AM and 11:35 AM, which is consistent with RFG being able to take a call at 11:03 AM at the house.

In other words, when he told PEF he was on 192, which is east of Centre Hall, he was not yet on 192 and he was west of Centre Hall, closer to Bellefonte, assuming that the call was completed to RFG and not to an answering machine or voice mail. He got call at 11:03 AM, started driving, and, before getting to Centre Hall, called PEF.

 

[Daisy1980]

and we still don't know who made the 11:03 phone call from the courthouse, is that correct?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

and we still don't know who made the 11:03 phone call from the courthouse, is that correct?

No. The Courthouse had a central switchboard at the time, so that could have from any phone hooked into that switchboard.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What is interesting is that the person who made the call said on Monday, **Oh, I made this routine call (or **I mis-dialed**) and talked to him for a few seconds around 11:00 AM on the 15th.**

It could have been something routine and quite understandable, but why not say it?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Also posted is a timeline on the early investigation. There are several names in there of people they talked to, but I could not find a connection with RFG.

They checked PEF's computer and Sloane's. There was also a reference that they "talked with Tpr Brown about the Steve Sloane situation."

 

[minazoe]

Did they ever figure out who's "metallic car" that was? did they try to identify what kind of car it was? 2 door 4 door?

The driving very fast thing makes me think he is angry about something... or in a manic state
( I know he is known for expressive driving).

something in the back of my head is making me think someone broke up with him..someone with a metallic car?

he destroyed all evidence of the relationship

and goodbye.

but where is his body?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Nothing on the metallic colored car, which was about 4 hours after the call.

 

[SeekingJana]

Well, RK's conclusions might not be good, but she just downloaded the PSP-CIA report. Tell me if anything sounds familiar.

My takeaway from the Investigative group meeting ( PSP-CIA, which is not " Central Intelligence Agency") is that they went back to square one like it was a brand new missing person event. I think that's a thorough way to do things one year in. It's disturbing that for over one year, it appears to me that an UID could have been RFG and gone undetected or misidentified because his info was not in NCIC, his case was not apparently on Doe Network, no DNA in CODIS or ViCAP for matching to UID, if there were any in the first year he was missing.

I did notice that Slovenia wasn't mentioned. Seems kind of sloppy... I was hoping to get a city name out of the list of recommendations.

Also, the mention that the county and the family, which consisted of 3 young adults, 2 nephews and his daughter, putting up more money for a substantial reward for info. He had almost NO blood family ( I know the feeling) except for those known 3 people who were not financially wealthy in their young adult lives.

As far as I know, Centre County never participated in a reward, did it? He was their D.A. so I wonder why not after a year. It wasn't like they were stretched thin with reward funding needs.

 

[SeekingJana]

The cell phone/landline records.

The 04/09 calls are the most interesting to me. ONE WEEK before he probably vacated his Mini Cooper for good and left Lewisburg on Saturday, 04/16.
The reason they're interesting is because unless he was some sort of speedy talker, they are the only 2 calls with time for much interaction at all to take place.

I wonder who called him on his cell phone? Maybe checking cell to cell reception out of Centre County? Maybe a conversation between he and the helper saying arrangements for his leaving were prepared. I don't know what arrangements exactly, but we all know about passports, a new bank card or credit card in someone else's name to use, a burner cell phone, things we'd want/ need if leaving incognito for whatever reason or just because he could.

I am sure they didn't pull records on all his phone lines which he could dial out directly, which should have included his office and not the central switchboard, because I do believe he would have likely talked to Lara for more than 1 minute or so in a week's time.

 

[SeekingJana]

The is a possible anomaly.

There is a call at 11:03 AM from the County Courthouse to the residence. If that call was completed to RFG, and it looks like it was, there is no way that RFG could have called PEF from Route 192 at 11:12 AM. It is about a 9-10 mile drive, some of which is through streets in Centre Hall and Bellefonte. It would have, on top of that, taken a few second to leave the house, get in the Mini and get it up to full speed.

I am told that the witness, the county worker, had a time receipt that showed that she saw the Mini turning onto Route 192. It put the time of the of RFG's turn at between 11:30 AM and 11:35 AM, which is consistent with RFG being able to take a call at 11:03 AM at the house.

In other words, when he told PEF he was on 192, which is east of Centre Hall, he was not yet on 192 and he was west of Centre Hall, closer to Bellefonte, assuming that the call was completed to RFG and not to an answering machine or voice mail. He got call at 11:03 AM, started driving, and, before getting to Centre Hall, called PEF.

Two possibilities come to mind: 1) The timeline is just off a bit. No one was clocking the man on radar.
2) Patty lied about the time, and may have also lied about the reason for the call. Pets are handy to use as an excuse. Maybe he had one final, rather short message for her. " I've left. You know exactly why. I do not want to be found, but your Mini Cooper soon will be returned to your legal possession from a parking lot in a town not far from Bellefonte. We have left no unfinished business or anything to rehash. Goodbye".
-CLICK-

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The 04/09 calls are the most interesting to me. ONE WEEK before he probably vacated his Mini Cooper for good and left Lewisburg on Saturday, 04/16.
The reason they're interesting is because unless he was some sort of speedy talker, they are the only 2 calls with time for much interaction at all to take place.

I wonder who called him on his cell phone? Maybe checking cell to cell reception out of Centre County? Maybe a conversation between he and the helper saying arrangements for his leaving were prepared. I don't know what arrangements exactly, but we all know about passports, a new bank card or credit card in someone else's name to use, a burner cell phone, things we'd want/ need if leaving incognito for whatever reason or just because he could.

I am sure they didn't pull records on all his phone lines which he could dial out directly, which should have included his office and not the central switchboard, because I do believe he would have likely talked to Lara for more than 1 minute or so in a week's time.

The calls could have been just about anything and are not necessarily from the same source.He could have used pay phones or a Trak phone well.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Two possibilities come to mind: 1) The timeline is just off a bit. No one was clocking the man on radar.
2) Patty lied about the time, and may have also lied about the reason for the call. Pets are handy to use as an excuse. Maybe he had one final, rather short message for her. " I've left. You know exactly why. I do not want to be found, but your Mini Cooper soon will be returned to your legal possession from a parking lot in a town not far from Bellefonte. We have left no unfinished business or anything to rehash. Goodbye".
-CLICK-

Even without worrying about a ticket, it would be impossible to go through Bellefonte at high enough speeds to make it, effectively, ten miles in nine minutes.

Assume that RFG is the one who spoke on the phone at 11:03 AM; assume that it is precisely at 11:03:00. He hangs up, at precisely 11:03:13 AM, leaves the house, locking the door behind him, and runs to an unlocked Mini, gets in and starts the engine. That would still take some time, even if he running. He still has to put the car in gear and it will take a second to get the Mini up to full speed.

After he gets the Mini up to full, in order to get out of Bellefonte, RFG would have to make a series 90 degree turns. Most of the blocks are rectangular. A stunt driver would have extreme difficulty doing that, without wreaking the car at a speed of greater than 60 MPH.

Now, there is a witness that saw RFG turning onto Route 192 in Centre Hall. She was a county worker that recognized him, and she had either just used an ATM or had purchased something just before; she had a timestamped receipt. The siting was between 11:30 AM and 11:35 AM. So, for RFG to have placed the 11:12 AM call to PEF from Route 192, he would have to driven to Route 192, made the call, then turned around, driven back to Centre Hall, turned around again and turned onto 192 between 11:30 and 11:35.

So we have two possibilities. A. RFG drove impossibly fast to get to Route 192, called PEF at 11:12 AM, and then turned around twice so he could be spotted by the witness at 11:30-11:35 turning back onto 192; of course, he had no way of knowing the witness would be there. B. RFG took the call at 11:03 AM the house, and well before reaching Center Hall, called PEF at 11:12 AM, reached Centre Hall, and was seen by the witness turning onto Route 192at between 11:30 and 11:35 AM. Occam's razor says B, and A might be an impossibility.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

No, Centre County itself never posted a reward and I'm not sure it would have been appropriate for them to do so as a governmental entity.

 

[SeekingJana]

No, Centre County itself never posted a reward and I'm not sure it would have been appropriate for them to do so as a governmental entity.

Probably wouldn't have mattered.