GUILTY PA - Timothy Piazza, 19, Dies In Penn State Frat Hazing, 2 Feb 2017 *arrests*

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I get what you mean, DexterMorgan, from your joke there, and sororities are not much better.

I remember when I read "Twisted Sisterhood" by Kelly Valen when it first came out in 2010 and the book was based on her personal experience in a college sorority which caused her a lot of untold misery.

I attended a women's Catholic college and there was no Greek system there - from what I have heard most Catholic colleges don't although there might be a few that do.
 
How many more people have to die horrific deaths before this sh]t stops? HOW MANY MORE?
 
frisson said:
How many more people have to die horrific deaths before this sh]t stops? HOW MANY MORE?
Click to expand...

Well the colleges can mandate security for every fraternity party.

But that underage drinking of the rich kids doesn't prohibits this since the colleges care more about money. And not busting underage drinking. Jmo.

Because I am sure that every headmaster knows which Frats are having a party and when and where.

But they never dispatch security nor cops to these locations. Jmo
 
The only thing that would motivate wealthy parents to warn their kids about this is the possibility of of any kind of smear on their adult child's name or the family name.

Sounds superficial but that could have saved Timothy's life if some of those kids had heard the talk from their parents. To me, I don't care how a person's life is saved, just that it is. Same as most people .

As long as nothing is "known" or in the paper they don't care. But they will get involved just to make sure their kids understand that they cannot get "caught" in anything like this. Not necessarily caring about the victim but don't get "caught". The family name cannot be "tarnished" in any way. This family will not be embarrassed - that sort of thing.

I believe these "talks" will happen now because the names of these young men along with some of the companies they were planning to "apprentice" at are all over the internet.

Talks about this crap is so crucial that somehow they need to happen. Regardless of wealth or blue collar or whatever . This has made parents start talking. Thank God for that !
 
This is the only copy so far I could find of the Grand Jury's findings, conclusions and recommendations.
Full of typos but not mine - someone has transferred document to a different platform.

I will search for a 'cleaner' copy of the G.J. recommendations.

Because of the texts that the police were able to uncover from 2016, they were able to lay charges concerning the 2016 hazings.



https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3700902/Notice-11-FINAL-Charges-and-Presentment.txt
 
zencompass said:
Thank you for being such a warm and welcoming person CocoChanel !

I have been on Websleuths for a few years but the darn 1 post for a blog I started is more prominent than my 1300 posts.

A week doesn't go by when I am not welcomed on a thread. It shows how wonderful it feels to be welcomed on this site.

You are a dear, CocoChanel. You made me feel great no matter how many posts I have.

Your post is very interesting and I certainly agree that sociopaths and psychopaths live among us.

I truly think there was someone urging the others (perhaps even more in the background) who was engineering the evening.

I believe you are spot-on when you mentioned someone with a personality disorder there.
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Oh Zen, thank you for forgiving me for thinking you were a newbie! I am embarrassed that I missed the detail that you have 1 BLOG post, but over 1200 thread posts. Not a very good sleuth I am to not notice that yikes! Your post was still amazing in that it prompted me to think about this awful case in a different way. When such a horrible thing happens like this in a mainstream fairly well respected institution, we tend to think of the folks involved as typical people much like our own families. There but for the Grace of God and all that. But now I am starting to realize damaged psyches are probably involved in some way in these heinous "mainstream"-type crimes. I am going to be looking more closely at this aspect of the psychopath/sociopath next door. Sometimes they blend in well, sort of like a sick Where's Waldo. Please know I am not making light of this tragedy, just trying to understand it and others we read about here more clearly.

And now I have to go off and read your infamous single blog post Zen LOL!
 
You are a gem with all of your kindness.

I wish I knew how to delete that single blog now.

Gosh, you made me smile. I am off to bed. Thanks again for your kindness. We will all need extra kindness on this particular thread.
 
zencompass said:
This is the only copy so far I could find of the Grand Jury's findings, conclusions and recommendations.
Full of typos but not mine - someone has transferred document to a different platform.
I will search for a 'cleaner' copy of the G.J. recommendations.
Because of the texts that the police were able to uncover from 2016, they were able to lay charges concerning the 2016 hazings.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3700902/Notice-11-FINAL-Charges-and-Presentment.txt
Click to expand...

zencompass Thank you very much for ^ post & link to GJ's recs.

Reading ^asset.docmentcloud ^ is absolutely sickening. That frat chapter claiming to be a 'dry fraternity.' Telling new dudes/pledges to hide their newbie bracelets under their watchbands, so they could get alcohol. Barf.

If these dudes had graduated 20-30 yrs earlier, they could have been ringleaders in Enron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal).

JM2cts, could be wron.
 
zencompass said:
Hi Blondie in Spokane,

That is how I felt as well - sick to my stomach.

I couldn't finish reading the article because the cruelty and indifference to another human being was beyond.

Had this "fraternity leader" been of adult age, he would be sitting in jail right now, charged with murder and facing a very bleak outlook.

This 'fraternity' person who apparently was the leader needs to be charged. Others who didn't speak up to help or at least phone an ambulance/police at a different location should also be charged.

Or, were they told they had to stay overnight in the "fraternity" house while waiting for one of the students to die. They were all aware of his falling on his face on the bathroom floor. Did not one of them even attempt to contact outside help? A quick call to 911 while in the bathroom or bedroom?

Oh I pray to God that these young men confess because a court trial will be almost intolerable for Timothy's parents.

Sending prayers out to them.
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that is what I thought too sneak off and call gosh
 
zencompass said:
Thank you MaryG12 ! Great points !

Do you think it was a "perfect storm of a night" or do you think there was an 'added influence' of a certain person who urged this to the end?
Click to expand...

I think it was a bunch of drunk stupid men/

.40 is one heck of a bAL

I wonder if all of them were that bblasted

It sure seems to be seeing or hearing someone roll face first down 15 steps would register wasted or not that help is needed

like what exactly would need to have happened to someone before someone called

was it they were too blasted or did they let him lie there cause they did not want to get in trouble



Haunted by the stair falls

Trying to come with some reason why nobody helped this is not like a stranger one would think some of them were friends and would want to help just as a human being
 
zencompass said:
They were all aware of his falling on his face on the bathroom floor. Did not one of them even attempt to contact outside help? A quick call to 911 while in the bathroom or bedroom?
Click to expand...


Exactly. Even the kid who said he wanted to call and was shoved against a wall. Everyone texts these days - just go into a corner somewhere and text your mom or dad.
 
QUOTE by al66pine:

zencompass Thank you very much for ^ post & link to GJ's recs.

Reading ^asset.docmentcloud ^ is absolutely sickening. That frat chapter claiming to be a 'dry fraternity.' Telling new dudes/pledges to hide their newbie bracelets under their watchbands, so they could get alcohol. Barf.

If these dudes had graduated 20-30 yrs earlier, they could have been ringleaders in Enron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal).

JM2cts, could be wrong.
Click to expand...
Dear Al66pine,

So glad you are on this thread! I always learn from your keen and compassionate posts.

Your comment about Enron is seriously spot-on.

So thankful that this D.A. and the police detectives dug as much as could possibly be found and threw every single charge at these young men as they could!

The texts to each other about deleting texts and facebook and group pages is sickening.

The confession of their idea of erasing all of the house webcam footage was interesting. Looked like they were calculating how guilty it would look. All about them, of course!

The Grand Jury conclusions point to culpability of murder.
 
CARIIS said:
I think it was a bunch of drunk stupid men/

.40 is one heck of a bAL

I wonder if all of them were that bblasted

It sure seems to be seeing or hearing someone roll face first down 15 steps would register wasted or not that help is needed

like what exactly would need to have happened to someone before someone called

was it they were too blasted or did they let him lie there cause they did not want to get in trouble



Haunted by the stair falls

Trying to come with some reason why nobody helped this is not like a stranger one would think some of them were friends and would want to help just as a human being
Click to expand...


I do know that group behavior as in this case is very different from an individual's behavior (in this case, the guy who wanted to help Tim but was emphatically told "No") and when you add into the mix the fraternity factor and alcohol factor you have a recipe for a major disaster.
 
This paragraph from the Grand Jury findings gave me faith that this case and the future of hazings will be taken seriously:

"The Grand Jury finds that the sum and substance of their collective testimony reveals the
Penn State Greek community nurtured an environment so permissive of excessive drinking and hazing that it emboldened its members to repeatedly act with reckless disregard to human life.

Thus the Grand Jury concludes that the death of Timothy Piazza was not a result of isolated
conduct or simple mistake negligence). Rather, the Grand Jury concludes that Timothy
Piazza died as a direct result of the extremely reckless conduct of members of the Beta Fraternity who operated within the permissive atmosphere fostered by the State University
Interfraternity Council"
 
I think what is really nagging me is the thought that poor Tim was an engineering student trying to make it into this particular fraternity - and these guilty 18 knew it, maybe had a problem with it, which might explain why this hazing occurred the way it did.

I cannot help but wonder.
 
From the following article:

"The Piazzas, who have hired Philadelphia attorney Tom Kline, are determined that everyone who had a hand in their son’s death is held accountable, and that includes Penn State."

“This is going to be the next Penn State tragedy, this whole frat system and their lack of policing it,” said Kline, who represented a victim abused by former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky and secured a multimillion-dollar settlement from Penn State. “There’s every indication that this was a brutal horrible, hazing incident, the likes of which should never be allowed on a campus of an American university."

http://www.philly.com/philly/education/Frat-death-raises-questions-for-grieving-parents.html
 
From your link zen. I could just cry....this hurts so much to read.

"At the Hershey Medical Center, where their son was flown for treatment, the Piazzas leaned close and told him they loved him, as a tear rolled down his cheek."

“You want to know that he heard you,” Jim Piazza, 55, an accountant, said. “But on the other hand, if he heard us, he knew he was dying. So, I don’t know which one is better.”
 
Dear Blondie in Spokane,

My heart has been in my throat since I became aware of this thread.

Half of the articles I cannot bring myself to read. I am trying to concentrate on the legal aspect of this case right now as the human aspect to this case is too heartbreaking.

This has to be one of the most difficult threads I've been on with Websleuths.

I feel heartened by you and the other posters on this thread who all bring kindness, compassion as well as valuable insight to this case.

The next court date is May 17th.
 
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