Paint tote

[Ames]

Ames, I don't believe in coincidences.

Me either, SD.

 

[DeeDee249]

Ames, I don't believe in coincidences.

Make that three of us!

 

[JMO8778]

U gotta admit, its hard to swallow this whole Jekyl and Hyde idea. One minute they're fine (no priors), the next minute they're extremely brutal in both word (threat to behead a child) and deed (headbash, garrote strangulation, other injuries, on a child), and the next they're fine again (no additional violence of any kind).

Patsy killed the source of her rage,thus no additional violence.And no,I don't think she was suddenly fine again.From descriptions of her after the murder,she really needed to be on a mood stabilizer,IMO.
There is reference in DOI Patsy makes that indicates to me she came out of a mood swing and at that point,she suddenly realized it.(It's not always apparent to the person having them at the time).It's the part where she says she was dancing at the wedding and she suddenly realized she was happy,and to quote her: I thought I would never be happy again.
I think that's much more than Patsy coming to terms w/ JB's death.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Patsy killed the source of her rage,thus no additional violence.And no,I don't think she was suddenly fine again.From descriptions of her after the murder,she really needed to be on a mood stabilizer,IMO.
There is reference in DOI Patsy makes that indicates to me she came out of a mood swing and at that point,she suddenly realized it.(It's not always apparent to the person having them at the time).It's the part where she says she was dancing at the wedding and she suddenly realized she was happy,and to quote her: I thought I would never be happy again.
I think that's much more than Patsy coming to terms w/ JB's death.

Wow, thats vague.

My point was that there was no violence before or after the night of the murder, that would establish any sort of violent personality. You know, the type of violent personality that would write the ransom note the way it was written, and sexually assault and murder JBR in the way she was sexually assaulted and murdered.

BTW, probably one of the biggest reasons, IMO, to consider PR uninvolved is the lack of a handwriting match consensus. There isn't a consensus among ABFDE certified document examiners that PR wrote the note. If there was, that would've been a significant event for RDI. Lacking the consensus was a big failure for RDI.

 

[DeeDee249]

There doesn't need to be a "before and after" with this. PR was known to have a temper. We see the evidence of her rage NOW because her child is dead as a result of it. Her rage may very well have surfaced with JBR before, and how would anyone know (outside of PR and her daughter).

The sexual assault may not have been that. It may have been staging to cover injuries that led to her bleeding.
The garrotte was made to cover the marks made by choking her with the turtleneck. Again- choking done in RAGE, not to strangle her.
She was killed accidentally. Then the horrible accident was covered up. It's pretty simple, actually. It's been done before, and sadly, will be done again.

I will pretend I didn't see the handwriting comment....:banghead:

 

[UKGuy]

Wow, thats vague.

My point was that there was no violence before or after the night of the murder, that would establish any sort of violent personality. You know, the type of violent personality that would write the ransom note the way it was written, and sexually assault and murder JBR in the way she was sexually assaulted and murdered.

BTW, probably one of the biggest reasons, IMO, to consider PR uninvolved is the lack of a handwriting match consensus. There isn't a consensus among ABFDE certified document examiners that PR wrote the note. If there was, that would've been a significant event for RDI. Lacking the consensus was a big failure for RDI.

Holdontoyourhat,
There is evidence of prior sexual trauma, Steve Thomas' panel of assorted pediatric experts unanimously agreed upon this aspect.

JonBenet's may be a sexual molestation gone wrong, either some act resulted in a head injury, or sexual rage overtook her assailant, this is very common in child abuse victims where the attacker proceeds with the the sexual assault with increasing physicality, resulting in the victim crying out, struggling, resisting etc, then the attacker attempts to silence the victim momentarily, usually by a hand on the mouth, in many cases violence is inflicted upon the victim after the assault has discontinued, leading to death. In a large number of sexual rage type cases the child is wrapped in something then dumped outdoors away from the house, the assailant then makes a 911 call saying the vicitm is missing!

 

[JMO8778]

There doesn't need to be a "before and after" with this. PR was known to have a temper. We see the evidence of her rage NOW because her child is dead as a result of it. Her rage may very well have surfaced with JBR before, and how would anyone know (outside of PR and her daughter).

This is evident in LHP's statements about the daily bathroom screaming matches bet. Pasty and JB,Patsy's frantic calls to Dr Beuf in Dec. '96,3x within 10 mins,(and she can't recall 'why'),as well as JB's frequent visits to the school nurse that Dec.,and always on a Mon.And the reason(s) why were never released.It appears things were reaching a boiling point in Dec.,and came to a head on Christmas night.
I believe Thomas had good reason to believe there was corporal punishment going on re: JB's toileting issues.I don't think we're seeing all of the evidence,as it's not been released..but Thomas didn't have to retract even one single statement from his book..that says a lot.

 

[DeeDee249]

It sure does say a lot.
As far as PR's calls to the pediatrician, I never though of it being related to injuries to JBR because of PR's rage. I assume bruises and such would be seen by teachers, playmate's families, etc. But it is a definite possibility.
I was thinking more along the lines of vaginal discomfort caused by PR's "cleansing" rountines.
VERY telling that JBR's school records, including records of her numerous visits to the school nurse, were REFUSED to LE investigating her murder. You have to wonder why anyone would block that information. Obviously the DA's office could have issued a supoena, and they refused. So the R's connections managed to close that door. This indicates to me that SOMETHING in those school nurse's records that the R's and theor lawyers don't want anyone to see.

 

[JMO8778]

It sure does say a lot.
As far as PR's calls to the pediatrician, I never though of it being related to injuries to JBR because of PR's rage. I assume bruises and such would be seen by teachers, playmate's families, etc. But it is a definite possibility.
I was thinking more along the lines of vaginal discomfort caused by PR's "cleansing" rountines.

that's what I was thinking,too,and why always on a Mon.?

VERY telling that JBR's school records, including records of her numerous visits to the school nurse, were REFUSED to LE investigating her murder. You have to wonder why anyone would block that information. Obviously the DA's office could have issued a supoena, and they refused. So the R's connections managed to close that door. This indicates to me that SOMETHING in those school nurse's records that the R's and theor lawyers don't want anyone to see.

for sure.

 

[Solace]

Wow, thats vague.

My point was that there was no violence before or after the night of the murder, that would establish any sort of violent personality. You know, the type of violent personality that would write the ransom note the way it was written, and sexually assault and murder JBR in the way she was sexually assaulted and murdered.

BTW, probably one of the biggest reasons, IMO, to consider PR uninvolved is the lack of a handwriting match consensus. There isn't a consensus among ABFDE certified document examiners that PR wrote the note. If there was, that would've been a significant event for RDI. Lacking the consensus was a big failure for RDI.

No violence? That is interesting. Incest is violence and someone was messing around with JonBenet. Most definitely.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

No violence? That is interesting. Incest is violence and someone was messing around with JonBenet. Most definitely.

Your statement is doubly wrong.

First, incest on its own is sexual relations between siblings or family members. Sick, but practiced among royalty. Not necessarily violent, you're confusing the term with sexual assault on a child, which JBR was a victim of that night. Second, you don't know that anyone was 'messing around' with JBR at any point. Most definitely, you don't know.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdontoyourhat,
There is evidence of prior sexual trauma, Steve Thomas' panel of assorted pediatric experts unanimously agreed upon this aspect.

JonBenet's may be a sexual molestation gone wrong, either some act resulted in a head injury, or sexual rage overtook her assailant, this is very common in child abuse victims where the attacker proceeds with the the sexual assault with increasing physicality, resulting in the victim crying out, struggling, resisting etc, then the attacker attempts to silence the victim momentarily, usually by a hand on the mouth, in many cases violence is inflicted upon the victim after the assault has discontinued, leading to death. In a large number of sexual rage type cases the child is wrapped in something then dumped outdoors away from the house, the assailant then makes a 911 call saying the vicitm is missing!

ST seems just a little biased toward RDI. Naturally his 'panel' is going to favor his POV. Its like the R's hiring their own lie detector. See what I mean?

Yet another failure for RDI is the lack of chronic abuse testimony from those who actually attended to JBR in life or death. ST's panel never unanimously attended JBR, so their opinion is second hand at best.

 

[Ames]

Your statement is doubly wrong.

First, incest on its own is sexual relations between siblings or family members. Sick, but practiced among royalty. Not necessarily violent, you're confusing the term with sexual assault on a child, which JBR was a victim of that night. Second, you don't know that anyone was 'messing around' with JBR at any point. Most definitely, you don't know.

Well, I guess in YOUR opinion...that it makes it okay. I hate to tell you this, but people get arrested for that here.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Well, I guess in YOUR opinion...that it makes it okay. I hate to tell you this, but people get arrested for that here.

Well, I guess you can't read, because I never said it was okay. You said I said that.

 

[Ames]

Well, I guess you can't read, because I never said it was okay. You said I said that.

Yes, I can read...but, it was the way that you wrote it, (Royalty do it)...like you were saying that it was OKAY..as long as the THEY did it. Sorry if that's not what you meant. Anyway...IMO...incest, or ANY sexual contact with a child IS sexual ASSAULT.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yes, I can read...but, it was the way that you wrote it, (Royalty do it)...like you were saying that it was OKAY..as long as the THEY did it. Sorry if that's not what you meant. Anyway...IMO...incest, or ANY sexual contact with a child IS sexual ASSAULT.

It was OKAY... with THEM. I think it was a more common practice hundreds of years ago in Europe.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree with your innuendos. I'd save those for someone who cares.

You are correct, that any such contact with a child is sexual assault. Thats why the rage accident theory fails, because there is hard evidence of another motive at work. You'd have to be a total sucker to believe PR staged a sexual assault on her own daughter. This is hard evidence that rage accident theory cant quite handle.

 

[Solace]

It was OKAY... with THEM. I think it was a more common practice hundreds of years ago in Europe. I betcha it was not okay with the victim Lunkhead.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree with your innuendos. I'd save those for someone who cares.

You are correct, that any such contact with a child is sexual assault. Thats why the rage accident theory fails, because there is hard evidence of another motive at work. You'd have to be a total sucker to believe PR staged a sexual assault on her own daughter. This is hard evidence that rage accident theory cant quite handle.

Any such contact with a child IS VIOLENCE. What you and your ilk cannot seem to fathom is that John and Patsy are incapable of this sort of activity. JonBenet shows signs of being abused whether or not you care to acknowledge it. Her hymen was barely there - that is abuse. The had CHRONIC INFLAMMATION. Not my words - those words are in the autopsy. CHRONIC inflammation connotes "healing" over time. There is the word "erosion" also in the autopsy report.

Yes these are all symptoms of poor hygiene. IN YOUR DREAMS.

 

[Blondieskatz]

Holdontoyourhat
Exactly what is your theory of what happened that night to JB? Who do you think did it and why? I'm totally open to other peoples opinions and would be interested to hear what yours is.

 

[coloradokares]

Your statement is doubly wrong.

First, incest on its own is sexual relations between siblings or family members. Sick, but practiced among royalty. Not necessarily violent, you're confusing the term with sexual assault on a child, which JBR was a victim of that night. Second, you don't know that anyone was 'messing around' with JBR at any point. Most definitely, you don't know.

Do you have any idea at all how Insane and disgusting that all sounded ...practiced among royalty. Never since Adam and Eve has that been justifiable or normal. Sexual relations with family members? Not that they did not act like some kind of royalty with the pagent thing and the crowns and tiaras. But this is NOT acceptable or normal familial behaviour. Also we know there were abnormalities found. Enlarged hymenal opening consistent with digital penetration etc.

 

[Solace]

Do you have any idea at all how Insane and disgusting that all sounded ...practiced among royalty. Never since Adam and Eve has that been justifiable or normal. Sexual relations with family members? Not that they did not act like some kind of royalty with the pagent thing and the crowns and tiaras. But this is NOT acceptable or normal familial behaviour. Also we know there were abnormalities found. Enlarged hymenal opening consistent with digital penetration etc.

Exactly Colorado. :blowkiss: