Pastor of mega church says wife has gone away for 1 year...

[scapa]

There are some commons factor noted on the various blogs and sites -- and there are many -- that document the various abuses of some pastors and churches that seem to pertain to this case, whether or not Hope is actually injured/disappeared or institutionalized as R claims (not that the latter is much preferable as an option). Both the "gender complementarity" and the "questioning is sinning" doctrines seem to be enthusiastically embraced by this group of churches/pastors (including Noble, Furtick, Driscoll, etc).

Both radically disempower women, and neither allows much room for women or dissenters to speak out against abuses, even serious ones. I'm a child of a mixed marriage and in no way religious but my Anglican wife was horrified to discover the enormous power wielded by some of these pastors. I agree.

I also find Prosperity preaching pretty revolting -- the Perry Noble "Skittles" demo sums up the cravenness of this variant pretty nicely. And I think it makes for a dangerous environment as well bad theology. Once the stakes get high enough, it pays to keep those who are on the outside or are publicly voicing objections, silent.

s

 

[panthera]

Good morning - it is Sunday again! :seeya:

Curious what 'sermon' Apostle Ron will be preaching today...........

:devil:

 

[i.b.nora]

Its on right now and he is talking about his personal stuff.

 

[panthera]

Its on right now and he is talking about his personal stuff.

Keep us posted if there are any new revelations regarding Hope.

 

[i.b.nora]

Well, actually he is talking about his financial situations and asking for money. Mostly he is exhorting them to give money.

 

[i.b.nora]

Oooh, now a special (I think from the back room while the people give money) message to us from Ron. Asking for prayers. Now about the finances, attendance has gone up, even during this most difficult time, but there has been a financial dip at the same time.

Blah, blah, blah.

Where is Hope???

 

[Arnie M]

Well, actually he is talking about his financial situations and asking for money. Mostly he is exhorting them to give money.

That is exactly how I saw it as well. Even when they took a break from the live service he played a video asking for money

 

[panthera]

Oooh, now a special (I think from the back room while the people give money) message to us from Ron. Asking for prayers. Now about the finances, attendance has gone up, even during this most difficult time, but there has been a financial dip at the same time.

Blah, blah, blah.

Where is Hope???

Has he even mentioned Hope? Or is she totally "written off" now? Perhaps he also should brush up on his scripture, such as "the love of money is the root of all evil"?



MOO

 

[i.b.nora]

Has he even mentioned Hope? Or is she totally "written off" now? Perhaps he also should brush up on his scripture, such as "the love of money is the root of all evil"?



MOO

Well I only caught about the last half hour of it. And, I didn't even listen to all of that. But, the first part I caught he mentioned all the troubles such as his father died a year ago at too early an age; that about a year ago his son was in rehab and that it was costing Ron $1,700 a day for his rehab; and he mentioned all his legal expenses that he had. He mentioned that at one time he dealt in real estate on the side and that when the economy went down, he got pummeled.

He mentioned that it costs $20,000 for 28 minutes of TV.
And he mentioned that the cost to build the 'campus' was $38 million.

And then I bailed, and when I came back he was getting them ready for the actual tithing procedure.

$1,700 per day for 365 days is: $650,500.00

 

[panthera]

Well I only caught about the last half hour of it. And, I didn't even listen to all of that. But, the first part I caught he mentioned all the troubles such as his father died a year ago at too early an age; that about a year ago his son was in rehab and that it was costing Ron $1,700 a day for his rehab; and he mentioned all his legal expenses that he had. He mentioned that at one time he dealt in real estate on the side and that when the economy went down, he got pummeled.

He mentioned that it costs $20,000 for 28 minutes of TV.
And he mentioned that the cost to build the 'campus' was $38 million.

And then I bailed, and when I came back he was getting them ready for the actual tithing procedure.

$1,700 per day for 365 days is: $650,500.00

Another reason I seriously doubt she is in treatment for one year....or in treatment at all.

And another scam to garner money....

MOO

 

[BeginnersLuck]

So he is preaching this to his congregation, some of which probably have lost their jobs or have little income to feed, cloth and put a roof over their families head.

Some who have children that have or have had problems, but they would never be able to afford $1,700 ridiculous dollars a day for a year, to get help for their child or the legal expenses for top dollar attorneys.

If all of this stuff he is saying is true:

It was his choice to send his son somewhere that cost $1,700 a day.
His choice to hire an attorney and allow all the legal fees to accumulate
His choice to spend $20,000 for 28 minutes on tv
His choice to build a $38 million dollar campus
His choice to buy lavish real estate

We all loose loved ones to death and go through rough times. A lot of people are living day to day without even bare necessities and not by their own doing.

He most certainly can get rid of the tv expense, body guards and any other unnecessary high expenses at home and within the church. He can sell his assets and live modestly like everyone else.

This guy is so out of touch with reality and I certainly hope that people are able to have enough common sense to see through him.

 

[SwampMama]

Over half a million dollars for his son's treatment huh? Well ron should be able to afford that seeing as he bought his house in in 2005 for $605,000. But even that is super hinky, see below:

About Ron’s own house (since Pastor Steve’s own million+ dollar home is in question)… Ron bought a home in 2005 for 605,000.

Single Family Residential, 5,420 sqft, Stories: 1 story ( yet the description below clearly says 2 stories), Attached Garage, 6 Bedrooms, 7 Bathrooms, Lot Size: 16.37 acres, Built In 2001

It is described as “This Electronic Gated,..A Total Of 16.75 Acres… 52 Magnolia Tree… A Tiered Water Fountain At …., Picture Perfect Dining Room ……Chef's Dream Kitchen….. Granite Countertops, …..Separate Walk In Butler's Pantry …Laundry Room With Sink… A Breakfast Area ….Additional Large Bar Area.. Spacious Family Room…, Gas Log Fireplace, …Wet Bar Area …..The Rec Room Has Extra Space For A Crowd….. The Master Suite Exquisitely Equipped With Gas Log Fireplace, Tray Ceilings, Private Patio To Exterior, Two Master Baths, King's Walk In Closet And The Queen's 12X14 Closet/Dressing Room With Her Own Separate Bath , Steam Room. Master Suite has It's Chandelier Over The Jacuzzi Tub To The Bidet In The Second Master Bath With Two Showers, Granite Floors…. Heading Upstairs Is The Children's Spacious Uniquely Decorated Suites. There Are Two Stairways And A Second Laundry Room Upstairs, The Fourth Bedroom Is Used As The Musician's Room, But Has Gym Flooring If A Work-Out Room Is Your Preference. All Closets Are Walk In. The Theater Room /Bonus Room Has A Gas Fire Place And It's Own Deck To The Back Exterior

So they bought it in 2005 for $605,000

(although oddly it had been bought for $825,000 just 2 months earlier (at a foreclosure sale!!) and I wonder WHO did that? Who buys a house for $825,000 and then sells it at a $200,000 LOSS for $605,000 2 months later!!. HINKY!!

http://qpublic5.qpublic.net/sc_display.php?county=sc_spartanburg&KEY=4-06-00-036.01

2005-09-01 - $ 605,000 - Improved - CHASE HOME FINANCE L
2005-07-0 $ 825,000 FORECLOSURE SALE (6) BEVERLY T & JAM
(House built on this land in 2001)
1999-12-01 $ 176,000 Vacant COLEMAN RICKY D & TR
1999-06-0 $ 150,000 Vacant


Then in 2009 Ron tried to sell it for over a million, OVER TWICE!! The amount he paid less than 3 years earlier (http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3220-Highway-417-Woodruff-SC-29388/82761346_zpid/)

Date Description Price Change $/sqft Source
03/13/2011 Listing removed $1,075,000 -- $169 PRUDENTIAL C DAN JOYNER CO., REALTORS

12/19/2010 Price change $1,075,000 7.6% $169 PRUDENTIAL C DAN JOYNER CO., REALTORS

10/19/2010 Price change $999,000 -7.1% $157 Prudential Real Estate
08/13/2010 Price change $1,075,000 -2.3% $169 Prudential Real Estate
11/06/2009 Price change $1,100,000 -8.3% $175 Prudential Real Estate
06/05/2009 Price change $1,200,000 -7.7% $188 Prudential Real Estate
03/19/2009 Listed for sale $1,300,000 115% $204 Prudential Real Estate
10/06/2005 Sold $605,000 -- $95 Public Record

I am not a real estate savvy person here, can anyone else summarize what is going on here and is it hinky?

 

[tlcya]

why does this case come to mind when reading about this situation?

http://www.gistplanet.com/2012/11/23-yr-old-bible-student-micah-moore.html

The woman in the story linked above was treated horribly and wanted to leave. So she was raped one last time and then murdered to make it look like a suicide.

I will not be comfortable taking Carpenter's word for it that his wife is now away for a year for inpatient treatment or that she is safe from harm til I see/hear it from her or from her parents, siblings etc.

Otherwise this whole danged story stinks to high heaven.

 

[i.b.nora]

A few pictures of the house in here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/10046833/Destiny-Summer-08-Online

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Well it makes no sense at all to me for someone to buy a house and sell it two months later for $200,000 grand less. I would say something weird went on as far as that goes. I wonder if he is associated with the prior owners and some kind of under the table arrangement was going on there.

Looks like RC tried to sell it for over a million and was butt hurt when it didn't sell and now it's value has decreased. Zillow has the current value at quite a bit less than what RC paid for it. Everybody that owns a house has lost value in the market. The real estate market has it's ups and downs and that is historical over time. Pretty much everybody's investments are down so he should just deal with it, like the rest of us.

 

[scapa]

Over half a million dollars for his son's treatment huh? Well ron should be able to afford that seeing as he bought his house in in 2005 for $605,000. But even that is super hinky, see below:

About Ron’s own house (since Pastor Steve’s own million+ dollar home is in question)… Ron bought a home in 2005 for 605,000.

Single Family Residential, 5,420 sqft, Stories: 1 story ( yet the description below clearly says 2 stories), Attached Garage, 6 Bedrooms, 7 Bathrooms, Lot Size: 16.37 acres, Built In 2001

It is described as “This Electronic Gated,..A Total Of 16.75 Acres… 52 Magnolia Tree… A Tiered Water Fountain At …., Picture Perfect Dining Room ……Chef's Dream Kitchen….. Granite Countertops, …..Separate Walk In Butler's Pantry …Laundry Room With Sink… A Breakfast Area ….Additional Large Bar Area.. Spacious Family Room…, Gas Log Fireplace, …Wet Bar Area …..The Rec Room Has Extra Space For A Crowd….. The Master Suite Exquisitely Equipped With Gas Log Fireplace, Tray Ceilings, Private Patio To Exterior, Two Master Baths, King's Walk In Closet And The Queen's 12X14 Closet/Dressing Room With Her Own Separate Bath , Steam Room. Master Suite has It's Chandelier Over The Jacuzzi Tub To The Bidet In The Second Master Bath With Two Showers, Granite Floors…. Heading Upstairs Is The Children's Spacious Uniquely Decorated Suites. There Are Two Stairways And A Second Laundry Room Upstairs, The Fourth Bedroom Is Used As The Musician's Room, But Has Gym Flooring If A Work-Out Room Is Your Preference. All Closets Are Walk In. The Theater Room /Bonus Room Has A Gas Fire Place And It's Own Deck To The Back Exterior

So they bought it in 2005 for $605,000

(although oddly it had been bought for $825,000 just 2 months earlier (at a foreclosure sale!!) and I wonder WHO did that? Who buys a house for $825,000 and then sells it at a $200,000 LOSS for $605,000. HINKY!!

http://qpublic5.qpublic.net/sc_display.php?county=sc_spartanburg&KEY=4-06-00-036.01

2005-09-01 - $ 605,000 - Improved - CHASE HOME FINANCE L
2005-07-0 $ 825,000 FORECLOSURE SALE (6) BEVERLY T & JAM
(House built on this land in 2001)
1999-12-01 $ 176,000 Vacant COLEMAN RICKY D & TR
1999-06-0 $ 150,000 Vacant


Then in 2009 Ron tried to sell it for over a million, OVER TWICE!! The amount he paid less than 3 years earlier (http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3220-Highway-417-Woodruff-SC-29388/82761346_zpid/)

Date Description Price Change $/sqft Source
03/13/2011 Listing removed $1,075,000 -- $169 PRUDENTIAL C DAN JOYNER CO., REALTORS

12/19/2010 Price change $1,075,000 7.6% $169 PRUDENTIAL C DAN JOYNER CO., REALTORS

10/19/2010 Price change $999,000 -7.1% $157 Prudential Real Estate
08/13/2010 Price change $1,075,000 -2.3% $169 Prudential Real Estate
11/06/2009 Price change $1,100,000 -8.3% $175 Prudential Real Estate
06/05/2009 Price change $1,200,000 -7.7% $188 Prudential Real Estate
03/19/2009 Listed for sale $1,300,000 115% $204 Prudential Real Estate
10/06/2005 Sold $605,000 -- $95 Public Record

I am not a real estate savvy person here, can anyone else summarize what is going on here and is it hinky?

This is very interesting -- thanks.

My guess is that the Church purchased the house and then sold it onto Ron and took the 200,000 hit. Or rather his loyal, hardworking congregation did.

I still doubt that Hope is in mortal danger, but this is all very, very strange. Is it just another story of "restoration" to lubricate the tear cuts and wallets of the faithful? Or has he done a Charles Dickens and packed her off to make a little room for the next companion?

s

 

[i.b.nora]

The way I see it, the people who bought the property in 1999 and built the home, or finished the home in 2001; he was a contractor, a design/build kind of guy. Perhaps by July of 2005 they could no longer pay the mortgage or construction loans or whatever, so the house was foreclosed upon by the lender (Chase Home Finance). I think the $825,000 was on paper only. I doubt the lender lost a single penny in any of the transactions. The design/builder guy is still in business, so I doubt he really lost any money. He just maybe overbuilt. Its all funny money anyhow. I don't see any indication that the church itself was involved with the actual sale.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Re the link from Swampmama/

The home was in foreclosure and Chase Bank bought it from the owners for 825,000.

2 months later Ron and Hope bought it for 605,000. There are 2 separate mortgages recorded on 10/06/2005. 1 with Chase and 1 with Suntrust.

This is called "piggybacking" and IMO it was done on this property to avoid the higher interest associated with a jumbo loan.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[panthera]

Re the link from Swampmama/

The home was in foreclosure and Chase Bank bought it from the owners for 825,000.

2 months later Ron and Hope bought it for 605,000. There are 2 separate mortgages recorded on 10/06/2005. 1 with Chase and 1 with Suntrust.

This is called "piggybacking" and IMO it was done on this property to avoid the higher interest associated with a jumbo loan.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So in essence he has a 2nd mortgage and no equity in the home? Have to wonder what is going on, however, to afford such a home, a wife in a year-long rehab facility, his son's rehab last year, etc, etc. That mega-church building itself would require a lot of upkeep as well as all other legitimate expense associated with the church. Where is he getting all this personal money?

:waitasec:

MOO

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Ok, I see.

The owners bought the land in 1999 and built the house. Chase foreclosed on it in 2005. Couldn't the $825,000 amount, be the default amount of the loan?

Then Ron was able to buy it from the bank for less than the foreclosed amount. Most of the houses foreclosed around me, end up being sold for less than what was owed to the bank.