Patsy Ramsey

[DeDee]

In January 1998, Barbara Fernie contacted investigators after she and her son saw a tabloid and recognized BRs golf clubs in the picture. Since BF recalled JR asking for his golf club bag, she thought she would inform the investigators.

During that same visit, investigators learned about the scratches around the exterior screen door lock Barbara Fernie had seen earlier that year and had, in fact, mentioned the marks to Patsy who dismissed them as JR attempting to enter the home.

Only, the Ramsey's ran a half page ad, soon after the murder, in the Denver area papers with a picture of the screen door with its scratches and indentations stating it could have been a possible entry point for the kidnapper.

The ad's claim did not sit well with Barbara Fernie who knew Patsy was aware of the screen door's chipping damage months prior. She viewed it as an attempt to mislead the public. BF indicated this was the point in which she broke ties with Patsy Ramsey.


13 TRIP DEMUTH: 205.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: That is all chipped out.
15 TOM HANEY: Is that unusual?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks unusual to me. I
17 didn't do it.
18 TOM HANEY: Do you recall though, was this
19 prior damage?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Prior damage, oh --
21 TOM HANEY: Prior to December 26 of 1996.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: I can't say for sure. I don't
23 know. I don't remember that.
24 TOM HANEY: That is that door -- correct me
25 if I am wrong -- leading into the kitchen area.
0406
1 PATSY RAMSEY: The back hall.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: Right to the patio.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
4 TOM HANEY: Do you know who caused that?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: I just don't remember having
6 it.
7 TOM HANEY: Okay. Now there was some
8 information out in the media about damage to the door
9 or something like that.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: This door?
11 TOM HANEY: Well, I assume that that is the
12 one we are talking about, are you familiar with that?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Huh-uh. (inaudible).
14 PATRICK BURKE: If you don't know.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.

 

[2 percent]

In January 1998, Barbara Fernie contacted investigators after she and her son saw a tabloid and recognized BRs golf clubs in the picture. Since BF recalled JR asking for his golf club bag, she thought she would inform the investigators.

During that same visit, investigators learned about the scratches around the exterior screen door lock Barbara Fernie had seen earlier that year and had, in fact, mentioned the marks to Patsy who dismissed them as JR attempting to enter the home.

Only, the Ramsey's ran a half page ad, soon after the murder, in the Denver area papers with a picture of the screen door with its scratches and indentations stating it could have been a possible entry point for the kidnapper.

The ad's claim did not sit well with Barbara Fernie who knew Patsy was aware of the screen door's chipping damage months prior. She viewed it as an attempt to mislead the public. BF indicated this was the point in which she broke ties with Patsy Ramsey.


13 TRIP DEMUTH: 205.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: That is all chipped out.
15 TOM HANEY: Is that unusual?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks unusual to me. I
17 didn't do it.
18 TOM HANEY: Do you recall though, was this
19 prior damage?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Prior damage, oh --
21 TOM HANEY: Prior to December 26 of 1996.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: I can't say for sure. I don't
23 know. I don't remember that.
24 TOM HANEY: That is that door -- correct me
25 if I am wrong -- leading into the kitchen area.
0406
1 PATSY RAMSEY: The back hall.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: Right to the patio.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
4 TOM HANEY: Do you know who caused that?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: I just don't remember having
6 it.
7 TOM HANEY: Okay. Now there was some
8 information out in the media about damage to the door
9 or something like that.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: This door?
11 TOM HANEY: Well, I assume that that is the
12 one we are talking about, are you familiar with that?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Huh-uh. (inaudible).
14 PATRICK BURKE: If you don't know.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.

So definitely trying to pin her down, get the contradictions on the record.
I wonder why. I mean, I know why in general, but I'm torn between this line of questioning being about something relevant to the case or personal.

 

[noneareworthy]

So does anyone care to discuss?

I think the painted/cleaned is an odd thing to mix up. If the basement was painted though it would have been noticeable.

Wondering if she painted over something having to do with this... Those aren't two words you'd switch

 

[gramcracker]

So definitely trying to pin her down, get the contradictions on the record.
I wonder why. I mean, I know why in general, but I'm torn between this line of questioning being about something relevant to the case or personal.

both, IMO, because one led to the other. I think realization dawned more slowly for the Fernies than for the Whites, but both sets of besties came to the same conclusion

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Wondering if she painted over something having to do with this... Those aren't two words you'd switch

If she painted over something they would know. Wet paint is not hidable. Paint with in 24 hours still smells.

It was just a slip of the tongue.

And again, nothing here points to her being guilty of anything but oddness.

 

[midwest mama]

Ummmm...I know I just had chocolate milk and a coke on an empty stomach, but this section of discussion makes no sense to me.

There are a bunch of smears here - to me, that means that she is seeing smears on the photo she's looking at. Does anyone know what photo that is?

But if she's looking at crime scene photos of a smear in or near the basement bathroom, why would she she think about, much less refer to, having the basement painted 2 years before? That entire answer is just weird.

BBM

If Patsy WAS suffering from any of the personality disorders we've tagged onto her in other threads or discussions, combined with her cancer therapy, it would be no stretch to believe Patsy capable of unintentional subterfuge in her answers.

Then again, look at other reactions of hers in which she showed her deliberate uncooperative and challenging answers when being interviewed. I find it quite easy to believe her capable of diversion and subterfuge whenever she determined it applicable during questioning.

In her mind, she would not be telling lies, which would support her swearing in for the testimony. Once narcissism alone would have been put into play during her responses, we could also expect her to think it plausible to say whatever she felt necessary to mislead the investigator, if she thought she had an opportunity to put herself or her own family in a more favorable light.

Patsy's record of achievements and intelligence tells us that she should have been able to answer every question posed to her during investigations clearly and with direct honesty, since she stated so many times she would do anything to help find the killer of her daughter.

No reason we should expect "weird" answers from her, short of using mind altering substances combined with the other aspects we've repeatedly questioned about her psychological health, especially with the battery of lawyers she would have had at her side during both preparation for testimonies and during the testimonies themselves....unless she was being intentionally diverse.

Or, because we do see "weird" answers coming from Patsy's testimonies, it suggests to me that we have to consider that she may have been affected by personality and/or psychological disorders.

All MOO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Patsy saw a plethora of Doctors. She had no mental illness that was diagnosed or we would know it. Since none of us know her medical history none of us should be diagnosing anyone.

I think though that she was most likely medicated after the death of JBR and that medication could have had her acting odd or answering questions in odd ways.

 

[2 percent]

Patsy saw a plethora of Doctors. She had no mental illness that was diagnosed or we would know it. Since none of us know her medical history none of us should be diagnosing anyone....

bbm
I'm not sure about that. Psychiatrists/psychologists are pretty mum even after death.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

bbm
I'm not sure about that. Psychiatrists/psychologists are pretty mum even after death.

No way. IMO Not in this case. The "investigators" would know and they would have used it in one of their books to make her look criminally liable.

In this case I don't believe that anything that is true is not known. I do believe there is a lot made up along the way though.

 

[Venom]

IF she did have some sort of mental illness or personality disorders she may have not even sought treatment for them.

 

[SapphireSteel]

No one diagnosed my mother's mental illness either, it's taken till I'm 50 before my own psychologist told me she had a personality disorder.

It explains a lot.

 

[gramcracker]

IF she did have some sort of mental illness or personality disorders she may have not even sought treatment for them.

IA and, even more than that, it's highly unlikely that she would have sought treatment. re PDs, it is the nature of the condition that the patient does not believe s/he is disordered

No one diagnosed my mother's mental illness either, it's taken till I'm 50 before my own psychologist told me she had a personality disorder.

It explains a lot.

I'm sorry to hear that you have lived with that. it's not easy

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

She was on Paxil Lorzapam and Ativan. She was given medications to deal with the death of her daughter.
She saw a ton of drs and was under a dr's care because of the cancer and then her daughters death. They would know.

I wonder how any of us would fair dealing with all she did.

 

[SapphireSteel]

She was on Paxil Lorzapam and Ativan. She was given medications to deal with the death of her daughter.
She saw a ton of drs and was under a dr's care because of the cancer and then her daughters death. They would know.

I wonder how any of us would fair dealing with all she did.

Patsy's behaviour, before during and after, would have her diagnosed as a narcissist at the very least.

IMO.

 

[pukasonqo2]

No one diagnosed my mother's mental illness either, it's taken till I'm 50 before my own psychologist told me she had a personality disorder.

It explains a lot.

same here, it wasn't until i saw treatment for chronic depression that the issue re: my mother's own mental illness was raised. yes, the diagnosed was done based on my experiences as told to the psychiatrist.

in oz you need to first see a GP, have a test and then be referred to a mental health specialist unless you are involuntarily committed to a mental health facility

PR might have been unaware of her own mental health issues, same goes for those around her. in my personal experience, people justify or make excuses quite easily; my father used to, proudly, tell his friends i was born a nihilist!


lupus est homini *advertiser censored*, non *advertiser censored*, non quom qualis sit novit

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Patsy's behaviour, before during and after, would have her diagnosed as a narcissist at the very least.

IMO.

No it wouldn't. Not even close. She was not a narcissist. I have met a few of them. That was not her. She lost a step daughter, She fought cancer and then lost her little girl in her own home. Any kind of shift was for survival sake. She had another child at home to raise without his sister.

Amateur diagnosing of people does not help. Discussing the real evidence does.
IMO

 

[2 percent]

No way. IMO Not in this case. The "investigators" would know and they would have used it in one of their books to make her look criminally liable.

In this case I don't believe that anything that is true is not known. I do believe there is a lot made up along the way though.

So the fact that they didn't use as diagnosed disorder against Patsy means she didn't have a diagnosed disorder? Were all of her medical records released? Source please.

Having known many people with disorders I have to say not all take meds. If you don't take meds, cops searching the house won't know. I have a cousin with BPD who doesn't take meds because she won't stop self-medicating, doctors refuse until she gives it up. I have several family members with panic and major depressive disorders; some take meds, some self-medicate, some search to cope without meds. This isn't black and white

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

So the fact that they didn't use as diagnosed disorder against Patsy means she didn't have a diagnosed disorder? Were all of her medical records released? Source please.

Having known many people with disorders I have to say not all take meds. If you don't take meds, cops searching the house won't know. I have a cousin with BPD who doesn't take meds because she won't stop self-medicating, doctors refuse until she gives it up. I have several family members with panic and major depressive disorders; some take meds, some self-medicate, some search to cope without meds. This isn't black and white

Most likely this woman was depressed and suffered from panic attacks. Which is why she was taking the Ativan. Who can blame her. It still has nothing to do with the crime because it was all POST the murder of her daughter.

Up until her DD died she was a woman raising two kids who was fighting cancer and already lost a step daughter. If you ask me for someone going through all that, she was doing darn well.

 

[Venom]

Nobody can say for sure she didn't and nobody can say for sure she did. All we can do is speculate (which I believe it's known that it is speculation) about how we perceive things. All it is is discussions which seem to be interrupted and frowned upon. As always, jmo.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

For me speculation has to follow evidence. If there is evidence that she was seeing a therapist, then yes she may have had some condition, but as yet all we know is that she was a mother battling cancer, who lost a daughter to an accident and then lost this daughter to violence. That would be enough to make anyone go into a tail spin or behave out of line with their normal personality.

You can not judge someone's mental state before an event like this by how they acted after.