Plea or Tip? Will there be an arrest?

[jjenny]

The whole GPS thing has me thinking that they found a Garmin or Garmin GPS files on his computer that take him directly there to that spot in Pala. If this guy was a hunter or fisherman, or even was somewhat active outdoors, having a Garmin would be THE thing to have, gadget-wise and it gives EXACT locations, unlike the iPhone, which has GPS but it isn't quite like the Garmin.

Either way, I feel very strongly that they either found something very exact that led them there OR he made a plea. I just cannot wrap my mind around this 'coincidence' because it just doesn't seem plausible.

I have no idea what it is most of you have against coincidences.

 

[TravelingBug]

exactly! LE did say they id'd her through dental records. I think she was in a "grave" and pretty much all together when they found her. And, if that is the case, then why so much time to process the scene? What else was there?

Maybe trying to look for evidence around of a crime scene further out? If they perhaps don't know if she was killed before or after she was placed there?

Realizing they found her more than 48 hours ago, it's amazing how quickly even Chelsea's crime scene was opened up, by comparison, especially since she WAS killed right in that area and they know that. Granted they had been searching the area before, but still, just finding all of the minutia that they need for trial...wow!

I guess my even saying maybe looking for more of a crime scene there if they weren't sure where she was killed actually goes against the idea of JAG having told them ::too:: much, because if (for whatever reason) he told them where she was, would have withheld how she came to be put there? :waitasec:

 

[Leila]

Just now on KFI 640 out of LA, John and Ken read an email they received. According to the sender who said he spoke to a LE officer for the Pala Reservation, John Gardner was brought by the police to the Pala area Friday afternoon. The body was discovered at 3:00 AM Saturday morning....for what it's worth...

I'm really surprised! I thought for sure that JAG wouldn't cooperate with LE after what the psychiatrist said at the time of the 2000 case.

If he's cooperating, I would think it's a plea deal - LWOP in exchange for taking the DP off the table.

 

[TravelingBug]

I have no idea what it is most of you have against coincidences.

For me, it's knowing the area.

Way, way too bizarre of a place, especially seeing where they were doing the processing off of the road, that someone would happen on that. Even with the dogs getting them within 5 miles.

Plus, way to hard of a place to direct someone else to unless you a) were there or b) saw it specifically on google earth or something, very pinpointed (but even then, finding the exact area, in that terrain, with the rains, etc. we've had eroding things).

Think about how long it took them to find Chelsea. They were RIGHT there in that area for over three days. THREE days that that area was the extreme focus of the search, including the finger of the lake being the primary area of focus, and still it took that long to find her.

Then take where Amber was, an area that does NOT have the distinctive features like a finger of a lake or something to steer someone back to, I firmly believe it would have taken them days out there searching to find Amber without literally being taken to the spot...or directed there SO specifically and then spending days searching.

It just all happened way too quickly in way too difficult of an area for me to believe it was coincidence in this instance.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

I have no idea what it is most of you have against coincidences.

Um, well I wouldn't say I have anything against coincidences. So if it's a coincidence that they found Amber's body right after what happened to Chelsea then......I would hope the police would be putting alerts out there to that effect since there is another child killer out there (and Amber is not a runaway after all.) If the police are coming forward and saying this guy is of interest or a suspect than I think the word 'coincidence' might not be applicable here.

 

[Julie111475]

I'm really surprised! I thought for sure that JAG wouldn't cooperate with LE after what the psychiatrist said at the time of the 2000 case.

If he's cooperating, I would think it's a plea deal - LWOP in exchange for taking the DP off the table.

Did you hear Nancy Grace say tonight that if they made a deal to take take the DP off the table and go with LWOP "Some Heads are Going To Roll". I know I should just chalk it up to Nancy's dramatics, but I found her comment kind of interesting. Mark Klaas shot back that DP don't happen that frequently in CA anyway.

 

[jjenny]

Did you hear Nancy Grace say tonight that if they made a deal to take take the DP off the table and go with LWOP "Some Heads are Going To Roll". I know I should just chalk it up to Nancy's dramatics, but I found her comment kind of interesting. Mark Klaas shot back that DP don't happen that frequently in CA anyway.

According to what's been published, LE is describing Gardner as a focus of the investigation. Frankly, if he took LE to the body, would there be any doubt as to who is responsible? Amber's family clearly wasn't told anything definite.

 

[Leila]

Actually I think it makes a lot of sense. Apparently the arraigement hearing was packed with strong, negative vibes. If nothing else, even Gardner and his primitive survival instincts could pick up the hatred in the room.

Police would be continuing to press him, especially if they found something of Amber's while they were searching his various residences.


The police couldn't just put Gardner in a car and whisk him up the freeway. As John and Ken stated it would have been worse than the OJ parade. The search at Kit Carson may have been a ruse or one of the police's search areas, but it did enable them an opportunity to take Gardner to the Pala area.

Regardless whoever gave the tip, describing the location would have been tough, especially after a year. For instance, how would you describe where to turn in that area. One would probably have to go back and retrace one's steps.

Guess we'll see...

PS: I tend to think he killed Chelsea out of rage, not fear of identification.

It could be that LE confronted JAG with more than one thing - the DNA evidence - his DNA on Chelsea's panties, and perhaps something they found of Amber's while executing search warrants. Confronted with strong evidence for a solid conviction, and coupled with the tense court room atmosphere at his arraignment, that pressured JAG into cooperating.

 

[Julie111475]

For me, it's knowing the area.

Way, way too bizarre of a place, especially seeing where they were doing the processing off of the road, that someone would happen on that. Even with the dogs getting them within 5 miles.

Plus, way to hard of a place to direct someone else to unless you a) were there or b) saw it specifically on google earth or something, very pinpointed (but even then, finding the exact area, in that terrain, with the rains, etc. we've had eroding things).

Think about how long it took them to find Chelsea. They were RIGHT there in that area for over three days. THREE days that that area was the extreme focus of the search, including the finger of the lake being the primary area of focus, and still it took that long to find her.

Then take where Amber was, an area that does NOT have the distinctive features like a finger of a lake or something to steer someone back to, I firmly believe it would have taken them days out there searching to find Amber without literally being taken to the spot...or directed there SO specifically and then spending days searching.

It just all happened way too quickly in way too difficult of an area for me to believe it was coincidence in this instance.

I agree 100% and I am in NO way familiar with this are (I've never even been to California). Someone took them to this exact spot. I do not at all think this was a tip or a hunch given by someone. I still think that the "search" of Kit Carson? park was just a ploy to keep media attention away from this area until everything was somewhat squared away. Who discovers a body missing for a year at 3 a.m.? It just doesn't happen that way from my POV, they knew early on last week that he was their man, and Amber's family was aware of this too. My only question is why he gave the answers up so easily, since he doesn't seem like the type to break too easily. I'm sorry where this is concerned I don't see how this can be considered a coincidence.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

For me, it's knowing the area.

Way, way too bizarre of a place, especially seeing where they were doing the processing off of the road, that someone would happen on that. Even with the dogs getting them within 5 miles.

Plus, way to hard of a place to direct someone else to unless you a) were there or b) saw it specifically on google earth or something, very pinpointed (but even then, finding the exact area, in that terrain, with the rains, etc. we've had eroding things).

Think about how long it took them to find Chelsea. They were RIGHT there in that area for over three days. THREE days that that area was the extreme focus of the search, including the finger of the lake being the primary area of focus, and still it took that long to find her.

Then take where Amber was, an area that does NOT have the distinctive features like a finger of a lake or something to steer someone back to, I firmly believe it would have taken them days out there searching to find Amber without literally being taken to the spot...or directed there SO specifically and then spending days searching.

It just all happened way too quickly in way too difficult of an area for me to believe it was coincidence in this instance.

Yep, and that is another good point. I know from driving this way into Temecula from Escondido that it is SO remote, we're talking miles and miles of rocky mountainous desolate roads that hikers would not normally travel. Hikers would go to Palomar which is not far away to hike. This body was put there knowing this - it is not like the Lake Hodges area where Chelsea's body was found and it's not like a national park or anything like that -it is all just miles and miles of nothing - nothing interesting, nothing to do, no reason to stop. I'm not suggesting it was not JAG by the way, quite the contrary. I'm just suggesting he was more methodical with Amber and with Chelsea he didn't have the option or the ability to exit. Plus, I'm thinking he was doing work or at least had access to a car at the time of Amber's disappearance so he might have been working in the area or he was going and frequenting the casinos along that road whereby now he has limited access to a vehicle.

Bottom line, the chance of this being a coincidence is slim to nil.

 

[Leila]

Did you hear Nancy Grace say tonight that if they made a deal to take take the DP off the table and go with LWOP "Some Heads are Going To Roll". I know I should just chalk it up to Nancy's dramatics, but I found her comment kind of interesting. Mark Klaas shot back that DP don't happen that frequently in CA anyway.

I didn't watch NG tonight............we had tree trimmers show up just a few minutes into her program (5:00pm here). So we were outside watching what they were doing. But, it's repeated here at 10:00pm - just 35 minutes from now and I'll get to watch it then.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

According to what's been published, LE is describing Gardner as a focus of the investigation. Frankly, if he took LE to the body, would there be any doubt as to who is responsible? Amber's family clearly wasn't told anything definite.

They certainly wouldn't publish that yet - not until his plea or until they are able to file charges.

 

[jjenny]

They certainly wouldn't publish that yet - not until his plea or until they are able to file charges.

Wouldn't publish what? It's already been published that LE is describing him as a focus of the investigation. Frankly that doesn't seem strong enough of a description to me if he led them to the body, so I don't buy that.

 

[RR0004]

I agree 100% and I am in NO way familiar with this are (I've never even been to California). Someone took them to this exact spot. I do not at all think this was a tip or a hunch given by someone. I still think that the "search" of Kit Carson? park was just a ploy to keep media attention away from this area until everything was somewhat squared away. Who discovers a body missing for a year at 3 a.m.? It just doesn't happen that way from my POV, they knew early on last week that he was their man, and Amber's family was aware of this too. My only question is why he gave the answers up so easily, since he doesn't seem like the type to break too easily. I'm sorry where this is concerned I don't see how this can be considered a coincidence.

I think the dna link is key...and I'm getting the feeling of some posters here...there may be more girls. I'd hate to see LE strike any deal...but if it can bring closure to families of "lost" loved ones...I can see them negotiating. I really wonder where this guy's been.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

Oh and the Kit Carson search was either a detractor OR it came up in a GPS device that they found....

 

[Leila]

exactly! LE did say they id'd her through dental records. I think she was in a "grave" and pretty much all together when they found her. And, if that is the case, then why so much time to process the scene? What else was there?

Another victim????

 

[Julie111475]

According to what's been published, LE is describing Gardner as a focus of the investigation. Frankly, if he took LE to the body, would there be any doubt as to who is responsible? Amber's family clearly wasn't told anything definite.

I agree! I just found her comment interesting from her. She has a legal background, but also is an advocate for victims of violent crimes. I would think that she would see that if other families are involved and have no closure she would see the pros vs. the cons of a plea in exchange for the answers to the questions that these families that don't know what happened to their missing loved ones need. Only JAG holds the key to these answers (IF it does come back that he did this). Honestly I think he needs to rot in Hxxx if he is responsible, but at the end of the day I feel as though, if by him confessing and making a plea bargain of some sort if it will bring other families closure and some answers DP vs LWOP makes no difference and "Heads Shouldn't Roll" because of this. He will GET HIS :furious: REGARDLESS! I just think as a parent, I couldn't image anything worse than not knowing where is my child and what happened. MOO

 

[TravelingBug]

I think this (below) is telling just hearing what JAG's attorney said...because the attorney is not happy that EPD even mentioned him as being focused on in the Amber investigation, let alone anything else. And he now wants a gag order. Makes me think he's nervous about what else will be said and what more may come out.

Also, just so I don't need to put in another comment, KGTV is promoing an "interesting piece of information" on their broadcast at 11...I'm hoping someone beats them to it a bit earlier! LOL

Anyway, here's the part about his attorney's feeling about the tie with Amber, as I think it's germane to the issue of a plea or tip or whatever tied to JAG


Epley also asked Danielson to order what was essentially a gag order in the case for law-enforcement officials and the county medical examiner's office, something the judge was reluctant to do, pointing out that any parties to such an order should be given an opportunity to speak on their behalf. He also asked Epley if he was referring to any specific incident. Epley then asked the judge for a minute to discuss something with his fellow public defender, then told the court that the Escondido Police Department had just issued a statement in connection to his client roughly five minutes prior, and he again requested that Danielson silence investigators in regard to the case. Danielson demurred, saying he could not issue an order without specific knowledge of the facts.

The judge did, however, say he would take up the matter [gag order possibility] again in the morning, when Gardner was due back in court for another hearing.

Source: Gardner Suspected in Amber's Death | NBC San Diego

 

[Nancy2441]

Did you hear Nancy Grace say tonight that if they made a deal to take take the DP off the table and go with LWOP "Some Heads are Going To Roll". I know I should just chalk it up to Nancy's dramatics, but I found her comment kind of interesting. Mark Klaas shot back that DP don't happen that frequently in CA anyway.

I'm not sure Nancy understands how things work in California. Clearly, Mark Klaas does.

 

[Julie111475]

I'm not sure Nancy understands how things work in California. Clearly, Mark Klaas does.

I agree, I don't know why I watch because I always end up so frustrated. Her lack of knowledge about subjects really bothers me, she's supposed to have experience in law and sometimes I feel like I know more just from reading up on here than she does:banghead:! HMMM maybe I can have a talkshow?!?!?!:woohoo: