Please Read. The JBR forum is just a wee bit different than the rest.

[Lurker Steve]

Oh, and after the kidnapping/murder - Lindbergh moved to Europe to escape the publicity and newshounds.

Sound familiar?

 

[newtv]

If JR (and PR when she was alive) were helping victims of crime, they'd be derided as hypocritical and as fakes by those who believe they are guilty.

IMHO.

i agree in so far as whatever the ramseys did it was seen the way the see-er wanted to see it..if u think they did it-it was seen as evil..if u think they didnt, it was seen as gracious or whatever..
But they couldnt win and they still cant in the eyes of many..I am one who doesnt think they are evil-or guilty..they are not perfect, but they have also held together in the worst of all worlds-one where u are a leper.
I couldnt have done it I dont think.

 

[Straitfan]

I do not mean that the parent of a murdered child has to advocate for the missing at all. Some people deal with loss different than others. But the reason I have had issues with the Ramseys from day one is because of their overall reaction.. (Not saying people HAVE to react a certain way.) but they have never, ever appeared to cooperate nor help.. You don't flood your house with other people when your child is missing... amoung other things.

 

[close_enough]

If JR (and PR when she was alive) were helping victims of crime, they'd be derided as hypocritical and as fakes by those who believe they are guilty.
IMHO.

hell yeah, & i'd probably be one of 'them'...when a person doesn't fully cooperate w/LE, they're almost asking for it, IMO......ok, so i know there's a lot of folks that don't trust LE...i have my own views about certain things like that also, BUT if one of my children were brutally murdered in my own home, i would be offering as much info as i could to LE, & begging them to find the killer...i'd do anything that was asked of me, if i had nothing to do w/it.....LE would be the only 'avenue' i would have....hey, call me stupid..

 

[Straitfan]

And how one reacts when their child is missing DOES matter... No one ever assumes Polly Klaas's father did something , nor Adam Walsh, nor many of the other many missing... Why??? Because they cooperate, why need a lawyer?? I would not even think of hiring an attorney if one of my kids were missing because I would have no need for an attorney to prove I was innocent...

 

[close_enough]

I do not mean that the parent of a murdered child has to advocate for the missing at all. Some people deal with loss different than others. But the reason I have had issues with the Ramseys from day one is because of their overall reaction.. (Not saying people HAVE to react a certain way.) but they have never, ever appeared to cooperate nor help.. You don't flood your house with other people when your child is missing... amoung other things.

you're right, you don't....i can just picture me callin up Alice Jane, or Kathy, & a couple of other good friends, after finding a ransom note stating not to call LE, & that my child might be beheaded....yeah, that's what i'd need..a few buddies hangin out at the house.....give me a break...

 

[close_enough]

And how one reacts when their child is missing DOES matter... No one ever assumes Polly Klaas's father did something , nor Adam Walsh, nor many of the other many missing... Why??? Because they cooperate, why need a lawyer?? I would not even think of hiring an attorney if one of my kids were missing because I would have no need for an attorney to prove I was innocent...

right again...it's all about investigating...you start with the close family (especially if the child is found dead in their own home, duh!)

i'd be screaming polygraph..hurry!!!...i'd want to get myself 'out of the way', as far as a suspect goes, ASAP.....the last thing in my mind would be to leave the state, where my dead child's body is too....

 

[CW]

I wonder at times if Michael Tracey might come here to read so that he can use some of members thoughts and opinions.

 

[newtv]

I do not mean that the parent of a murdered child has to advocate for the missing at all. Some people deal with loss different than others. But the reason I have had issues with the Ramseys from day one is because of their overall reaction.. (Not saying people HAVE to react a certain way.) but they have never, ever appeared to cooperate nor help.. You don't flood your house with other people when your child is missing... amoung other things.

i respectfully disagree-how would anyone react-they called their friends for support-or one friend called another and thats how these things can happen..they also did not know it was a murder at first..I just dont think there is a way to behave in a crisis..I think when u take a position that they are guilty or didnt act like u would then thats all u see..and when u take a positon that they are not guilty or just human-imperfect-etc, then u organize around that.
I have never seen htem in the light many here do..I have just never thought them to be killers, or any of the things said about them. I dont have any personal relationship with them but I didnt experience them as liars-or unkind-or covering up.
Maybe its a personality thing- I dont suffer fools easily..even if they are not fools in the end..and I am abottom line person. I cant even begin to tell u how annoyed i can get with people at times..I just dont think they were uncooperative so much as incredulous that they were being seriously considered after a few days.
Also their daughter was dead..there was not the same urgency to eliminate the parents as there is when a child is missing.
There is urgency if u understand crime-but if u dont and they wouldnt have had any experience in it..they pply had nothing to give once they knew that..they pply collapsed. Patsy did.
My parents lost a child in an auto accident at 2 and I can tell u, its chaos, and grief, and collapse, and hell. They picked her up out of the coffin and wept..they were unable to even cope for a very long time.
Now if on top of that my parents were accused of her death..I mean I can see the scenario being really tough to survive. My dad didnt really - but anyhow
they cant win- the ramseys are damned forever more..by those who see them as killers of jon binet.
The rest-whether they were viewed as cooperative or not isnt the stuff of which to make them lepers. If they are not nice to others, neither is that, In my opinion only.
I am not nice to all people -on all days- in all ways.
I have handled things in my life in disastrous ways..not ever intentionally but in retrospect I cant believe what I thot was appropriate at certain times in my life.
And yes, there is a price to pay for everything-even/especially ignorance.
But we are not under the media spotlight as it all goes down..I doubt I would handle things well if under a spotlight because its used to see the best or worst of us.
And I dont agree that u are asking for anything when u dont cooperate other than whatever that result is. They are not damned for life..I mean tons of folks dont cooperate..some just guess right. Their stubborness pays off in some way-the ramseys could very well not be involved in the murder of their daughter-after all this time the Law E.. do not see that they are.
Why such a mean, harsh, stance..look at some murderers who cooperated, and played everyone for a fool.
Noone is inside the skin of another when they are afraid, hurt, devastated, desperate, etc.

 

[Straitfan]

IF and that is a kinda big "IF" the Ramsey's or someone they know personally is not guilty of killing their daughter, it is their own fault for the situation they were/are in cause they created it themselves... So if someone else did possibly murder their sweet daughter, they can blame themselves for not helping the investigation because they caused their own situation by not reacting sooner, allowing individuals in their home..etc. The bottom line is a young child was murdered because, why??? She certainly did not deserve it..

 

[Straitfan]

I see what you are saying in some ways Newtv, but if you look at the "overall people" who are guilty, (ie, Scott Peterson, Susan Smith) they all have a common demoninator..... Period.. act the same in same ways, etc... I am not saying the Ramsey's are guilty , on the fence from one day to the next with my opinion but I would most certainly have reacted different but they have much more money than I do as well as a different life perspective ....soo.. don't know but still even though they have wealth, dont think I would react the same but life is different for different people.

 

[ellen13]

I posted this on another thread but I think it's important for all to read it.
Thank you.

Quote:


Here is the thing you all have to understand.

I got into the forum business because of the Ramsey case. I too believe it was an inside job.

I have seen first hand what the Ramsy's lies have done to innocent people.

The Ramseys make me sick. And yes, one or both killed JonBenet.

I usually don't come on the JBR forum at WS because I want to let all sides keep the discussion lively. That's why when I discuss the case I go to my other forum www.forumsforjustice.org/forums

Yes, I will allow anyone to call the Ramseys killers because one or both are. That's not just my opinion but the opinion of people much more knowledgable (sp?) than myself.

Is it unfair? Yes. I'll admit it is. But there are two things you have to remember.

1- Dear friends of mine have been almost ruined because of the Ramseys and their lies

2-I own the forum

I rarely bring out number 2 because I think it sounds like a power trip. That is not my intention. Really

Also give us credit. We allow fully and freely the discussion of an intruder even though I know this theory to be totally false.

Thank you for understanding.

here's the bottom line fellow ws friends, if we can't respect tricia the owner, then we don't have any business at ws. we can agree to disagree on certain items, but bashing is just unacceptable to tricia. if it wasn't for her, many of us would have some lonely days and nights.

 

[julianne]

IF and that is a kinda big "IF" the Ramsey's or someone they know personally is not guilty of killing their daughter, it is their own fault for the situation they were/are in cause they created it themselves... So if someone else did possibly murder their sweet daughter, they can blame themselves for not helping the investigation because they caused their own situation by not reacting sooner, allowing individuals in their home..etc. The bottom line is a young child was murdered because, why??? She certainly did not deserve it..

So, you're saying that even if they're innocent, they're guilty??!! With all due respect, that statement above is ridiculous and even borders on nonsensical, IMO. :waitasec:

The bottom line is a young child was murdered because....Because evil walks, talks and breathes amongst us in this world, and often under the guise of just the opposite.

 

[otto]

I see what you are saying in some ways Newtv, but if you look at the "overall people" who are guilty, (ie, Scott Peterson, Susan Smith) they all have a common demoninator..... Period.. act the same in same ways, etc... I am not saying the Ramsey's are guilty , on the fence from one day to the next with my opinion but I would most certainly have reacted different but they have much more money than I do as well as a different life perspective ....soo.. don't know but still even though they have wealth, dont think I would react the same but life is different for different people.

I think it's unfair to say that because the Ramsays did not become activists, they look guilty. People lose family members to cancer all the time. Some become activists and others don't. Plenty of people that are not in high profile positions lose family members to murder and they don't become activists ... they take time to try to heal and they try to resume life in some way that allows them to go on. Other people commit suicide after the death of a loved one.

People that become activists are more likely people that are a little bit upset with the way the system works. For example, Sharon Rocha fought to have unborn children recognized as persons. Beth Twitty is fighting to make people more aware of the dangers of traveling to foreign countries. They are fighting for a cause because of something that must be set right. Having your 6 year old child murdered and being accused of the crime doesn't leave a lot of room to set things right because the more they fight to prevent people from being wrongly accused, the more guilty they appear to some people. This point is a double edged sword because I think the Ramsays have fought to address the issue of people being wrongly accused, but it has been used against them.

 

[Lurker Steve]

right again...it's all about investigating...you start with the close family (especially if the child is found dead in their own home, duh!)

i'd be screaming polygraph..hurry!!!...i'd want to get myself 'out of the way', as far as a suspect goes, ASAP.....the last thing in my mind would be to leave the state, where my dead child's body is too....

See, I wouldn't - the polygraph part, anyway. They're garbage. There are lots of false negatives and false positives.

If I was advising a client or friend of mine, I'd ask him NOT to take one. If s/he failed, the police would consider them a suspect. If s/he passed, it wouldn't be evidence of innocence. Heads you lose, tails you lose.

And if they did have to take one, I'd tell them what the Soviets told Aldrich Ames - to just relax. He passed twice.

 

[Lurker Steve]

Having your 6 year old child murdered and being accused of the crime doesn't leave a lot of room to set things right because the more they fight to prevent people from being wrongly accused, the more guilty they appear to some people. This point is a double edged sword because I think the Ramsays have fought to address the issue of people being wrongly accused, but it has been used against them.

True. It's funny, JR has said not to judge JMK and that's somehow evidence that he knows he didn't do it. At the same time, JR supposedly is trying to get JMK to take the fall, in which case he'd want to scream "at least he's been found!"

When things don't add up, it's like algebra, you're missing something.

 

[otto]

See, I wouldn't - the polygraph part, anyway. They're garbage. There are lots of false negatives and false positives.

If I was advising a client or friend of mine, I'd ask him NOT to take one. If s/he failed, the police would consider them a suspect. If s/he passed, it wouldn't be evidence of innocence. Heads you lose, tails you lose.

And if they did have to take one, I'd tell them what the Soviets told Aldrich Ames - to just relax. He passed twice.

Polygraphs are meaningless and there's a good reason they are inadmissable in the courts, but the media likes to hold it out there as a controversial issue suggesting that we should debate someone's innocence based on the fact that they are informed enough to refuse the polygraph.

 

[Lurker Steve]

Polygraphs are meaningless and there's a good reason they are inadmissable in the courts, but the media likes to hold it out there as a controversial issue suggesting that we should debate someone's innocence based on the fact that they are informed enough to refuse the polygraph.

... or at least insist that the person giving it has more experience with the limitations of the polygraph and freely admits it.

Problem is, mostly what you get is "inconclusive" - and we saw how that phrase was used against PR's handwriting analysis.

 

[Straitfan]

If your child has been murdered, who cares what the polygragh says... Innocent people would not care less... That would be the last thing on my mind..

 

[Straitfan]

People are not convicted of murdered based on a polygraph alone. Remember it is not admissable in court, anyway!!!! Innocent people have no concern taking a polygraph test!!