Please Read. The JBR forum is just a wee bit different than the rest.

[otto]

People are not convicted of murdered based on a polygraph alone. Remember it is not admissable in court, anyway!!!! Innocent people have no concern taking a polygraph test!!

People lose the presumption of innocence on the basis of the polygraph alone. It is not admissable in court for the very reason that it is unreliable, so why would anyone advocate using an unreliable guilt machine test on anyone?

Innocent people have different reasons from guilty people to fear the polygraph ... guilty people may come off innocent but innocent people only have to fear that they comes off guilty.

 

[otto]

I have never, not one time "feared" a polygraph test so guess if someone fears them or doubts the results they must have something to hide. cause I would take a polygraph 24/7 if necessary. Guess I would question, why people are taking them to begin with..

Have you ever been asked to take one? Talk is cheap.

 

[Hyatt]

It is my honest opinion, at this time, that the only victim is JonBenet, and I don't see anyone bashing her.

I would add (though this was discussed to death many moons ago) that JonBenet did not become a victim just upon her death. The sexualization of children is a serious issue and not just cute fun and games. One of her parents did not just sexualize her at an early age but paraded her sexualization and the other parent let it happen.

Everyone here (and elsewhere) goes "YUCK!" when they hear of pedophilia, but only some have the same reaction upon seeing the images of this child sexualized by her mother. The truth of the matter is that even if there had been an intruder (and I don't for a minute believe that there was) blame would STILL fall upon the parents, IMO. If you listen to the discourse of this Karr individual - an obsession and elaborate fantasy - if he has those - you have to wonder exactly what the parents did to contribute to it in the first place. I was angry at the Ramseys the very first time that I saw those images of that little girl.

JMO

 

[otto]

With all due respect, I am not going to argue over polygraph tests as I have never taken one.. Hmmmm guess I have never had reason too, mediication or not. But if necessary, I would..for the sake of my chld.

If you've never been asked to take one, then perhaps you don't know what you would do if you were falsely accused of a crime and asked to take a polygraph to prove your innocence; especially knowing that they are so prone to false results that they are not admissable in court.

 

[akgal]

I would add (though this was discussed to death many moons ago) that JonBenet did not become a victim just upon her death. The sexualization of children is a serious issue and not just cute fun and games. One of her parents did not just sexualize her at an early age but paraded her sexualization and the other parent let it happen.

Everyone here (and elsewhere) goes "YUCK!" when they hear of pedophilia, but only some have the same reaction upon seeing the images of this child sexualized by her mother. The truth of the matter is that even if there had been an intruder (and I don't for a minute believe that there was) blame would STILL fall upon the parents, IMO. If you listen to the discourse of this Karr individual - an obsession and elaborate fantasy - if he has those - you have to wonder exactly what the parents did to contribute to it in the first place. I was angry at the Ramseys the very first time that I saw those images of that little girl.

JMO

Oh my goodness, I completely agree with you. I have a beautiful daughter, who is three, and I know she would win every pageant she ever entered, but you would have to hold me at gun point for me to ever put her in those awful things. They are just a free peep-show for pedophiles. I'm really surprised we haven't heard of more molestation, kidnappings/killings of little girls who are entered in those.

 

[otto]

yeah, that is a tough thing to think about. I am not sure how I would react because without being in that situation it is hard to know. Think i would be hesitant to call them for a while but would call out of utter frustration and worry. But I do not think I would call an entourage of admirers to share my worry.

Sharon Rocha called a lot of Laci Peterson's friends when she went missing and they all showed up at the park to help search within a couple of hours of Scott's phone call. Maybe Patsy believed that JonBenet was kidnapped and wanted to get people together to help search ... that would be the thing to do if you thought your child was missing ... call as many people as you can think of to help find her. What's wrong with Patsy calling for help from the community? I don't get it ... why is it wrong that Patsy called on the community and they came to her house to help?

 

[kazzbar]

I was angry to when I saw the way JBR had been sexualised my her Mum. Child beauty pajeants are not common here so it was very odd to us Aussies. I did watch a t.v show about it once and all the kids looked like JBR but I do not remember them behaving in such a sexual way as she did. Most people here remember her as that poor kid who was made to dress up like a grown up and parade round.Like a 20 yr old girl. Patsy did herself no favours publicly because of this. In general she seems to have had a superior type of attitude. Not likeable at all.However, this does not a murderer make.

 

[kazzbar]

Sharon Rocha called a lot of Laci Peterson's friends when she went missing and they all showed up at the park to help search within a couple of hours of Scott's phone call. Maybe Patsy believed that JonBenet was kidnapped and wanted to get people together to help search ... that would be the thing to do if you thought your child was missing ... call as many people as you can think of to help find her. What's wrong with Patsy calling for help from the community? I don't get it ... why is it wrong that Patsy called on the community and they came to her house to help?

This is wrong because if a kidnapper truly had JBR it could have placed her life in extreme jeopardy. Who knows there could have been a "foreign faction' watching the house.Ready to end a life if the wrong thing happened.

 

[otto]

This is exactly what I have always wondered about. The note says don't call the police, but you have the whole house swarming with police and friends. I am on the fence as to whether the Ramsey's are guilty, but the one thing that has always bothered me, is why did he get the police so publicly involved and made flight arrangements, but didn't make arrangements to get the money that was asked for in the ransom note, its not like he didn't have the funds. Maybe I've watched too many movies, lol.

After 10 years, if John Ramsay made plans to leave Boulder, Colorado as soon as his daughter was found murdered then there must be some documentation for that. I haven't followed the case closely, but I also haven't heard that before. I thought that John was particularly devoted to Patsy and wasn't abandoning her within hours of their daughter's death to go where?

It's obvious why the Ramsay's got the police involved right away. He could have gotten the money, but there was more at stake. You watch movies, so you know that a victim has a better chance if the authorities are involved.

 

[akgal]

Sharon Rocha called a lot of Laci Peterson's friends when she went missing and they all showed up at the park to help search within a couple of hours of Scott's phone call. Maybe Patsy believed that JonBenet was kidnapped and wanted to get people together to help search ... that would be the thing to do if you thought your child was missing ... call as many people as you can think of to help find her. What's wrong with Patsy calling for help from the community? I don't get it ... why is it wrong that Patsy called on the community and they came to her house to help?

These two cases are completely different. Laci was a grown woman, who, according to her husband, was going to take the dog on a walk.

JonBenet was a little girl taken out of her bed in the middle of the night. The house was the crime scene. You don't invite your friends over to traipse all over the crime scene.

 

[otto]

It is my honest opinion, at this time, that the only victim is JonBenet, and I don't see anyone bashing her.

It's not just victims, it's victims families ... but you probably already knew that.

 

[kazzbar]

These two cases are completely different. Laci was a grown woman, who, according to her husband, was going to take the dog on a walk.

JonBenet was a little girl taken out of her bed in the middle of the night. The house was the crime scene. You don't invite your friends over to traipse all over the crime scene.

No, not if you are smart!

 

[akgal]

After 10 years, if John Ramsay made plans to leave Boulder, Colorado as soon as his daughter was found murdered then there must be some documentation for that. I haven't followed the case closely, but I also haven't heard that before. I thought that John was particularly devoted to Patsy and wasn't abandoning her within hours of their daughter's death to go where?

It's obvious why the Ramsay's got the police involved right away. He could have gotten the money, but there was more at stake. You watch movies, so you know that a victim has a better chance if the authorities are involved.

Yes, quietly involved, to tap the phones, mark the ransom money, etc...

I believe somebody said he was arranging for his older children to come to CO, not for him to leave. I don't care, if it was my daughter, I'd wait to hear from the kidnappper before doing anything else.

 

[otto]

These two cases are completely different. Laci was a grown woman, who, according to her husband, was going to take the dog on a walk.

JonBenet was a little girl taken out of her bed in the middle of the night. The house was the crime scene. You don't invite your friends over to traipse all over the crime scene.

It was a missing child. Abduction. Need people to search and look for her ... and they called the police who arranged a search ... in the house. It stopped there.

I don't know what people do when a child is missing, but I'm pretty sure they're not thinking straight.

 

[akgal]

It's not just victims, it's victims families ... but you probably already knew that.

At this time, her parents are still not completely ruled out. I never thought Scott Peterson was a victim either.

 

[Hyatt]

I was angry to when I saw the way JBR had been sexualised my her Mum. Child beauty pajeants are not common here so it was very odd to us Aussies. I did watch a t.v show about it once and all the kids looked like JBR but I do not remember them behaving in such a sexual way as she did. Most people here remember her as that poor kid who was made to dress up like a grown up and parade round.Like a 20 yr old girl. Patsy did herself no favours publicly because of this. In general she seems to have had a superior type of attitude. Not likeable at all.However, this does not a murderer make.

No, it does not a murderer make. It DOES flag up a child as a possible object of desire to any and all kooks out there. Which was the FIRST violation. The second violation was a violent outburst and the third and final one was an insane cover-up plot that involved further violations to the child's body. So ... even though I tend to associate the word "murder" with premeditation and believe that there was no premeditation here, this child was violated in many different ways.

JMO

 

[otto]

Yes, quietly involved, to tap the phones, mark the ransom money, etc...

I believe somebody said he was arranging for his older children to come to CO, not for him to leave. I don't care, if it was my daughter, I'd wait to hear from the kidnappper before doing anything else.

So he tried to call the family together and notified family members that a sibling had been abducted ... do you think these siblings would have forgiven their parent had they not been informed? Of course they had to be notified and of course arrangements had to be made for them to come home at that time. Obviously. Why even think of criticizing a parent for informing the family that their sister was missing. It is the normal thing to do.

 

[kazzbar]

No, it does not a murderer make. It DOES flag up a child as a possible object of desire to any and all kooks out there. Which was the FIRST violation. The second violation was a violent outburst and the third and final one was an insane cover-up plot that involved further violations to the child's body. So ... even though I tend to associate the word "murder" with premeditation and believe that there was no premeditation here, this child was violated in many different ways.

JMO

No arguement with me about that, Hyatt.Could not agree more.

 

[akgal]

It was a missing child. Abduction. Need people to search and look for her ... and they called the police who arranged a search ... in the house. It stopped there.

I don't know what people do when a child is missing, but I'm pretty sure they're not thinking straight.

There is a difference between missing and kidnapped. When the Ramsey's called the police, they already knew there daughter was kidnapped, because they had a ransom note. If she had disappeared coming home from school, I would not think anything about the family calling friends, neighbors and the community to come search for her.

All I'm saying, whether it points to them being guilty or not, like I said I am completely on the fence about this, I think they should have kept things a little more on the down low, when they first discovered the ransom note. They completely did the opposite of what the note said, and the note said they were being watched. I would have done exactly what the note said in hopes of getting my daughter back alive. This is what has bothered me from the beginning with this case. Fortunately, I have no reason to know how I would act in this situation, and hope I never have to find out.

 

[otto]

At this time, her parents are still not completely ruled out. I never thought Scott Peterson was a victim either.

Ruling out is different from having evidence for conviction. I am not ruled out for many crimes, but that doesn't mean I committed them. The Ramsays had their fingerprints all over the scene, their clothing fibres were everywhere, they were the last person to see her and their handwriting under duress is messed up like a pedophile ... great ... they're not ruled out but they're not in any way implicated except in the forums.