Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[Curious Me]

RR had a whole neighborhood beat and capture him. They all ganged up on him.
That was a shining moment for the citizens.

He was possibly tied to killing a little girl in the San Francisco area, he killed an older couple, and raped and killed various people. Depraved possibly on coke with evil intentions. Thankfully he was locked up all these years.

And I can have a nice dinner.

 

[MeeBee]

Could be, the 'stab' wounds on his back are superficial slashing wounds that could only be accomplished by someone lying on top of another. The wound shapes are consistent with that because they have a 'tail'. All the wounds were superficial except for 3. None of those wounds except for 3 could have been fatal. If her intention was to kill, she had much better opportunities to do so without a hellishly gory fight. He was photographed sleeping at one point, that's when I would have struck, no mess no clean-up quick escape.
She went to an awful lot of trouble to carry out a pre-meditated murder and made some very silly mistakes for an above average intelligence creative person.
It's really not the behaviour of pre-planned psychopath, those are very cold and swiftly carried out, it's part of the thrill of high risk taking. I could not in all honesty see JA as a thrill seeking sexual psychopath acting out a fantasy.
I can only think that a fight took place, for whatever reason and that JA defended herself. There are some great resources available to discover the differences between stabbing and 'chopping slashes' - one produces a tail and the other does not.
I am not trying to defend her, I just need more information than we are given by television pundits and innuendo.

I guess it's one thing to assume Jodi was a victim as a child which caused her issues. But to believe she must always be the victim is another.

First off, they were not superficial slashing wounds. They were superficial stab wounds. A lot of bone and cartilidge back there. They weren't slashes but stabs. The length and size of the stabs were consistent with the other wounds. If they were slashes they would be longer, no?

Also, when someone is attacked with a knife, they tend to try and fight back. It should come as no surprise to anyone that a fight or struggle took place. Travis was fighting for his life. The ME, however, never testified, to my recollection, about slashes or a "tail." They were superficial stabs and he explained him. I can find the video or transcript.

Jodi brought a stolen gun and knife with her. This was not just an altercation that got out of hand. The only explanation for that and Jodi's other actions is that she had a plan.

No one ever said she was a sexual psychopath. She's just a psychopath. A psychopathic stalker. She wasn't acting out a Bundy or Ramirez fantasy murder. This was an OJ rage killing out of revenge and spite.

The argument I always hear that she left a messy crime and didn't strike when Travis was sleeping never made sense to me. Murders are messy things. They don't often go as planned. Murderers who kill people they know usually strike when the person is awake. They want the person to know they are being killed and by whom and why. Jodi didn't expect the struggle.

It's also quite possible a roommate was home or in and out. Jodi couldn't strike while a roommate was home. She also may have been giving Travis a chance to change his mind before she carried out her plan. He probably didn't.

Even the jury didn't belive the story of self defense. There was simply too much planning before hand to believe Travis just attacked and Jodi reacted. This is also not just based on what I heard on Nancy Grace. This was in the trial. I am sick of that accusation. Jodi also had a knives and a gun in her post murder get away car.

ETA: oh I know the slashes you're talking about. However, the ME testified that the stab to the chest was first. Either Jodi created these while terrorizing Travis from behind or Jodi attacked and Travis reacted. I do believe at one point he was on her or he threw her to the side. But she was killing him. Justifiable.

 

[Cate49]

How about the minds of the people that seek relationships and/or marriage with killers? Particularly the inmates that show no remorse or empathy for their victims. The idea of someone wanting/thinking of loving RR. He murdered/raped old woman, yet people want to establish relationships with him. Jodi has people wanting to support her too. What is it that creates prison groupies?

 

[human]

I do think she planned on killing him. I still cannot understand why she did not kill him when he was sleeping.

He was strong and in good shape. Even she could not think she could take him, could she? I know she did, but I am surprised.

Anyway, I wonder what happened. Could TA have lived if he did somethng different? Did he say something that sealed his deat warrant?

I am not blaming him. I am just wondering if something sealed his fate or was he going to die no matter what

 

[MeeBee]

How about the minds of the people that seek relationships and/or marriage with killers? Particularly the inmates that show no remorse or empathy for their victims. The idea of someone wanting/thinking of loving RR. He murdered/raped old woman, yet people want to establish relationships with him. Jodi has people wanting to support her too. What is it that creates prison groupies?

Oh boy...lol

MOO

But there's a lot at work. I think there are people who might sympathize with the person, much like the people on here. They think the person is just a troubled soul with a tough past and they just need to be understood. So they take to supporting the person.

For people like Jodi, it's easier. They claim abuse and abused women come to her defense. This is not a knock against true battered women. But they project their issues onto Jodi and find a kindred spirit. It's misplaced sympathy.

Ramirez's wife sort of, I think, said the same thing. He's just a troubled man who is misunderstood. She maintained his innocence...

There's some who become attracted to the "bad boy" or bad girl. The idea that they can be the one to tame an evil person like Bundy or Ramirez or they just have this weird attractiveness to people who are evil and crazy. I am not saying this right. I don't get it though.

But their looks certainly play a part. It's easier to "sympathize" with someone you are innately attracted to. There's a certain excuse making there as well. They try and justify their actions so it's ok to be attracted to them. I believe looks affects a murderers support level. Jodi is very pretty so it's easier to want to understand her and try and project something on her. She must have been abused and provoked to do what she did. Just look at her. She can't be a killer.

I don't remember Aileen Wournos having NEAR as much support as Jodi or even Ramirez or Bundy did and she had a very hard life full of terrible experiences. Her execution went off without a hitch. No one cared. She wasn't pretty to care.

 

[SMK]

How about the minds of the people that seek relationships and/or marriage with killers? Particularly the inmates that show no remorse or empathy for their victims. The idea of someone wanting/thinking of loving RR. He murdered/raped old woman, yet people want to establish relationships with him. Jodi has people wanting to support her too. What is it that creates prison groupies?

Good point, and good questions.
I was just thinking about Ramirez and his groupies. And Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer both had groupies. And there are always women who become obsessed with men who rape and kill.

I think it must stem from:
1. A desire to get some of the limelight, and a quick and easy route to relative fame.
2. A glamorizing of the convict as a kind of misunderstood folk hero.
3. The sexual excitement of a handsome killer- the Dracula effect.

 

[MeeBee]

I do think she planned on killing him. I still cannot understand why she did not kill him when he was sleeping.

He was strong and in good shape. Even she could not think she could take him, could she? I know she did, but I am surprised.

Anyway, I wonder what happened. Could TA have lived if he did somethng different? Did he say something that sealed his deat warrant?

I am not blaming him. I am just wondering if something sealed his fate or was he going to die no matter what

I believe what sealed the deal was his final rejection of her. That text on May 26. It was final and it was mean. I really do. Travis knew it would, at the very least, anger her. He was done with her and she was pissed and her ego was damaged. Maybe if Travis had handled it differently he would have lived. IDK. But how could he know what he was really dealing with? He just needed her to understand. TBH, I think she thought about killing him even before that. But the text sealed it.

I wonder, though, what she planned on doing with that recording. Clearly, there was a reason she recorded it and a reason she kept it and a plan she had with it. But what?

 

[SMK]

I do think she planned on killing him. I still cannot understand why she did not kill him when he was sleeping.

He was strong and in good shape. Even she could not think she could take him, could she? I know she did, but I am surprised.

Anyway, I wonder what happened. Could TA have lived if he did somethng different? Did he say something that sealed his deat warrant?

I am not blaming him. I am just wondering if something sealed his fate or was he going to die no matter what

I think if Jodi premeditated the murder, she would want to:
a. get it over with clean and quickly before roommate/neighbors could intervene and
b. leave a clean crime scene--no mess, no fingerprints, no pics

Therefore, something had to have gone wrong. I don't think she stabbed him sadistically - I think she did so in a panic, because the gun shot had not worked, and she was afraid if she did not finish him off quickly, he would scream for neighbors or a room mate.

I think she was probably intent on killing him so she could move on.
He was clueless as to how much she was hoping for marriage.

 

[MeeBee]

I think if Jodi premeditated the murder, she would want to:
a. get it over with clean and quickly before roommate/neighbors could intervene and
b. leave a clean crime scene--no mess, no fingerprints, no pics

Therefore, something had to have gone wrong. I don't think she stabbed him sadistically - I think she did so in a panic, because the gun shot had not worked, and she was afraid if she did not finish him off quickly, he would scream for neighbors or a room mate.

I think she was probably intent on killing him so she could move on.
He was clueless as to how much she was hoping for marriage.

That's definitely possible as well. I still have not decided which came first. I certainly think it's possible the gun did (I have an idea that she might have been trying to stage a suicide, which means his survival of the shot REALLY threw a wrench in her plans which explains the frenzied crime scene and stupid mistakes. It was not in the plan). But she also had the knife with her, she must have. Which means she planned on either using it or having it as a back up.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Could be, the 'stab' wounds on his back are superficial slashing wounds that could only be accomplished by someone lying on top of another. The wound shapes are consistent with that because they have a 'tail'. All the wounds were superficial except for 3. None of those wounds except for 3 could have been fatal. If her intention was to kill, she had much better opportunities to do so without a hellishly gory fight. He was photographed sleeping at one point, that's when I would have struck, no mess no clean-up quick escape.
She went to an awful lot of trouble to carry out a pre-meditated murder and made some very silly mistakes for an above average intelligence creative person.
It's really not the behaviour of pre-planned psychopath, those are very cold and swiftly carried out, it's part of the thrill of high risk taking. I could not in all honesty see JA as a thrill seeking sexual psychopath acting out a fantasy.
I can only think that a fight took place, for whatever reason and that JA defended herself. There are some great resources available to discover the differences between stabbing and 'chopping slashes' - one produces a tail and the other does not.
I am not trying to defend her, I just need more information than we are given by television pundits and innuendo.

Oh really? Firstly just because she could have killed him in the bed when he was asleep and not in the shower does not remove premeditation, perhaps she wanted to snap off a few nude shots first and have sex with him again, who knows what was in her sick head. Secondly she's not all that intelligent or creative, unless you take her word for it, and she is a proven pathological liar so why would you .. Thirdly, no she was not getting her rocks off on it, she was full of rage, and hated Travis when she killed him, which is probably why things got 'messy' also, it was her first time (hopefully) perhaps she would get better at it if given the change, who knows how hard it is to kill, I don't .. maybe some were slashing because he moved, and he acted differently to how she expected .. it certainly does not remove all the premeditation in this case, not by a looooooooong shot.

 

[SMK]

I believe what sealed the deal was his final rejection of her. That text on May 26. It was final and it was mean. I really do. Travis knew it would, at the very least, anger her. He was done with her and she was pissed and her ego was damaged. Maybe if Travis had handled it differently he would have lived. IDK. But how could he know what he was really dealing with? He just needed her to understand. TBH, I think she thought about killing him even before that. But the text sealed it.

I wonder, though, what she planned on doing with that recording. Clearly, there was a reason she recorded it and a reason she kept it and a plan she had with it. But what?

Maybe this is what provoked the killing, made it finally happen: She threatened to expose him before Mimi and other Mormons and reveal him as a "hypocrite" in terms of the motivational speaking: This would terrify him and might even provoke anger or violence (trying to grab the tape away, etc.)---Blackmail angers and terrifies most people. Especially because it is horrifying to realize personal things revealed to someone you trusted is now being turned into a weapon of control.

 

[MeeBee]

Oh really? Firstly just because she could have killed him in the bed when he was asleep and not in the shower does not remove premeditation, perhaps she wanted to snap off a few nude shots first and have sex with him again, who knows what was in her sick head. Secondly she's not all that intelligent or creative, unless you take her word for it, and she is a proven pathological liar so why would you .. Thirdly, no she was not getting her rocks off on it, she was full of rage, and hated Travis when she killed him, which is probably why things got 'messy' also, it was her first time (hopefully) perhaps she would get better at it if given the change, who knows how hard it is to kill, I don't .. maybe some were slashing because he moved, and he acted differently to how she expected .. it certainly does not remove all the premeditation in this case, not by a looooooooong shot.

Also, there were some deep gashes on his head that looked, to me, to have come while she was in front of him and he was defending himself and putting his head down (he, in the shower sitting and she standing over him or in front of him). Very possible the slashes happened this way as she was she just slashing at him in a frenzy.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Also, there were some deep gashes on his head that looked, to me, to have come while she was in front of him and he was defending himself and putting his head down. Very possible the slashes happened this way as she was she just slashing at him in a frenzy.

And she was probably slashing at him as he tried to escape down the hallway .. I mean we have photos of the crime FGS there is ZERO need to break out the conspiracy theories ... :banghead:

 

[SMK]

That's definitely possible as well. I still have not decided which came first. I certainly think it's possible the gun did (I have an idea that she might have been trying to stage a suicide, which means his survival of the shot REALLY threw a wrench in her plans which explains the frenzied crime scene and stupid mistakes. It was not in the plan). But she also had the knife with her, she must have. Which means she planned on either using it or having it as a back up.

Either that, or the knife was always with her (protection during a long road trip?)-- or she needed it to cut a window screen. .... In any case, I think it was grabbed in an omg panic --he is staggering around and neighbors and room mate will soon be alerted.

I do feel the murder was at least loosely premeditated, ("if it goes too badly, I just might actually do it") because of the way she acted afterward (posting a memorial site---overkill, if one was still in shock from a murder that "just happened". Just an intuition.)

That it was premeditated does not have to mean she was cool, calm, unfeeling. She may have been in a meltdown since May (his blog post, the texts and email). She likely felt depressed, dissociated, and surreal. She had nothing to gain but his death: No insurance money, etc.... Well, she has a lifetime to dwell on it now in any case.....

 

[MeeBee]

Either that, or the knife was always with her (protection during a long road trip?)-- or she needed it to cut a window screen. .... In any case, I think it was grabbed in an omg panic --he is staggering around and neighbors and room mate will soon be alerted.

I do feel the murder was at least loosely premeditated, ("if it goes too badly, I just might actually do it") because of the way she acted afterward (posting a memorial site---overkill, if one was still in shock from a murder that "just happened". Just an intuition.)

That it was premeditated does not have to mean she was cool, calm, unfeeling. She may have been in a meltdown since May (his blog post, the texts and email). She likely felt depressed, dissociated, and surreal. She had nothing to gain but his death: No insurance money, etc.... Well, she has a lifetime to dwell on it now in any case.....

Good point. There's a high likelihood that she had taken to slashing tires. She may have just had it on her...

Also very good point about the spiral. Based on interviews and anecdotes from people who knew Jodi and Travis, that's exactly what it sounded like. Her move back home, I think, was around the time that she had started losing grip and the feeling was growing. Travis was moving further away.

There are a few or a couple journal entries that indicate that she obsessed with something or someone or that she had some sort of deep intense feelings and that the only way to get rid of them was to eradicate them, cut them off at the source, kill it, annihilate it, etc. It sounds like she may have felt the only way to move on from Travis was to get rid of him because, like I said, he was moving away from her not closer. She was losing her grip on him but her intense feelings were not going away, as they had with past bfs. She's sitting in Yreka pining after him, constantly thinking about where he is, who he's with, and realizing that she is slowly no longer a factor in his life. He's moving on.

MOO

 

[Gecko100]

Oh boy...lol

MOO

But there's a lot at work. I think there are people who might sympathize with the person, much like the people on here. They think the person is just a troubled soul with a tough past and they just need to be understood. So they take to supporting the person.

For people like Jodi, it's easier. They claim abuse and abused women come to her defense. This is not a knock against true battered women. But they project their issues onto Jodi and find a kindred spirit. It's misplaced sympathy.

Ramirez's wife sort of, I think, said the same thing. He's just a troubled man who is misunderstood. She maintained his innocence...

There's some who become attracted to the "bad boy" or bad girl. The idea that they can be the one to tame an evil person like Bundy or Ramirez or they just have this weird attractiveness to people who are evil and crazy. I am not saying this right. I don't get it though.

But their looks certainly play a part. It's easier to "sympathize" with someone you are innately attracted to. There's a certain excuse making there as well. They try and justify their actions so it's ok to be attracted to them. I believe looks affects a murderers support level. Jodi is very pretty so it's easier to want to understand her and try and project something on her. She must have been abused and provoked to do what she did. Just look at her. She can't be a killer.

I don't remember Aileen Wournos having NEAR as much support as Jodi or even Ramirez or Bundy did and she had a very hard life full of terrible experiences. Her execution went off without a hitch. No one cared. She wasn't pretty to care.

I was very much in support of Aileen Wournos, she was brought up like a disposable tissue, and then died for it.
The wounds on TS's back give credence to JA's story of being attacked by a 'linebacker' who landed on top of her. The wounds could not go deep as she had little range so they are 'across' type slashes rather than penetrative, hence the 'tail', at some point she could have inflicted the chest would in either in a standing position or lying down. Any violence associated with sex is sexual violence, for what ever reason.

 

[MeeBee]

I was very much in support of Aileen Wournos, she was brought up like a disposable tissue, and then died for it.
The wounds on TS's back give credence to JA's story of being attacked by a 'linebacker' who landed on top of her. The wounds could not go deep as she had little range so they are 'across' type slashes rather than penetrative, hence the 'tail', at some point she could have inflicted the chest would in either in a standing position or lying down. Any violence associated with sex is sexual violence, for what ever reason.

But she was not holding the knife when he lunged at her like a linebacker but the gun, at least according to her story. He may have lunged at her to get out of the shower where she was stabbing him. I can believe that. That's when he ran to the sink to get a look at himself. She collects herself after being thrown and having sliced her finger and continues her flurry. To believe her story that she shot him first after he attacked her is to believe that those slashes, which came with Travis on top of her and attacking her, came while he was a bullet in his head and was still coming after her where she was forced to defend herself. Highly unlikely.

But the ME testified, based on his observations, that the chest wound came first.

How was this murder associated with sex, though? They were not having sex at the time...Travis was naked but I don't think the murder had anything to do with any kind of sexual gratification, although I do think Jodi got off on ending Travis's life, in her own way.

 

[Gecko100]

Either that, or the knife was always with her (protection during a long road trip?)-- or she needed it to cut a window screen. .... In any case, I think it was grabbed in an omg panic --he is staggering around and neighbors and room mate will soon be alerted.

I do feel the murder was at least loosely premeditated, ("if it goes too badly, I just might actually do it") because of the way she acted afterward (posting a memorial site---overkill, if one was still in shock from a murder that "just happened". Just an intuition.)

That it was premeditated does not have to mean she was cool, calm, unfeeling. She may have been in a meltdown since May (his blog post, the texts and email). She likely felt depressed, dissociated, and surreal. She had nothing to gain but his death: No insurance money, etc.... Well, she has a lifetime to dwell on it now in any case.....

I think the knife was already there if we recall the frayed and cut decorative rope, someone got tied up, but who knows? Then there is the outstanding issue of the lack of forensics around that rope and the camera card that doesn't fit anyone's camera. Plus a less than stellar understanding of the blood deposits and interpretation.

 

[MeeBee]

I think the knife was already there if we recall the frayed and cut decorative rope, someone got tied up, but who knows? Then there is the outstanding issue of the lack of forensics around that rope and the camera card that doesn't fit anyone's camera. Plus a less than stellar understanding of the blood deposits and interpretation.

No that is Jodi's story to explain the proximity of the knife. The fibers that were found were not even at the crime scene (the bathroom) but on the stairs and they appeared to be carpet or pillow fibers, not rope fibers.

No evidence that there was ever a rope.

Correction: there were small fiber shreds in the bedroom.

 

[MeeBee]

Also, I just looked at the autopsy photos again '( ) And there is no way those slashes came while Jodi was under Travis and slashing at his back.