Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert #2

[lemonblacktea]

I wonder if Shan G also suffered from schizophrenia as her sister did? If so, that would add some truths to Shan G acting out that night. Anyway, it still doesn't explain why her death was consistent with strangulation and not drowning in this autopsy report:

http://pix11.com/2016/02/12/new-sha...gs-in-gilgo-beach-case-medical-examiner-says/

 

[WINDSOR]

Speculating about anybody's mental health is a dangerous path to follow in a criminal investigation, because it minimizes the importance of facts and evidence.

It would could be more prudent to learn how and why the SCPD might be involved, as well as why the SCPD seemed to not want to acknowledge for the longest time that Shannan's disappearance was possibly the result of a criminal act.

Remember Shannan called 911 saying she was in fear for her life. She was fleeing her driver/security. She disappears and is found dead months later in the same general location she was last seen.

WINDSOR

 

[Sinix]

Speculating about anybody's mental health is a dangerous path to follow in a criminal investigation, because it minimizes the importance of facts and evidence.

It would could be more prudent to learn how and why the SCPD might be involved, as well as why the SCPD seemed to not want to acknowledge for the longest time that Shannan's disappearance was possibly the result of a criminal act.

Remember Shannan called 911 saying she was in fear for her life. She was fleeing her driver/security. She disappears and is found dead months later in the same general location she was last seen.

WINDSOR

A lot of people, myself included, believe members high up in law enforcement are involved on what could be a number of potential levels.

Puzzle pieces fit very nicely when you factor in someone like a Burke or in a high position like him faces criminal charges(more) if they take this investigation a certain direction.


I don't see any other way to make sense out of this case.

 

[Sinix]

We all know CPH lied. He also moved. Why? Because theres more going on in OB then we imagined. I dont think we will ever have the full story.

Hackett lying stinks and it muddles things up but just because he lies doesn't mean the worst about him is true. There's a lot of smoke that points to fire for sure though.

 

[Magicman35]

******* If someone was trying to kill Shannon Gilbert and she ran the to home of gus coletti banging on his door screaming they are trying to kill me. She honestly felt her life was in imminent danger.* I believe shortly after Ms Gilbert went inside Mr coletti's kitchen she realized really quickly, how am i safe from people trying to kill me before the police get here by an older retired gentleman. She ran to a neighbors house and because she didn't answer the door Shannon ran like crazy knowing imminent death was inevitable.
****** The long island Serial killer murdered Shannon. He made certain that future escorts do not bring cell phones so he doesn't have another risky episode chasing a woman calling 911 through treacherous terrain.
******* That explains why after the encounter with Shannon, Megan and amber left there cell phones behind.
Shannon ran from Gus coletti's house. She knew the people killing were coming. (Fight and flight kicked in) that explains why she ran from his house and didn't say anything to him. I also believe that's why she ran from Mrs brennans house because no one answered the door.

 

[Magicman35]

******* If someone was trying to kill Shannon Gilbert and she ran the to home of gus coletti banging on his door screaming they are trying to kill me. She honestly felt her life was in imminent danger.* I believe shortly after Ms Gilbert went inside Mr coletti's kitchen she realized really quickly, how am i safe from people trying to kill me before the police get here by an older retired gentleman. She ran to a neighbors house and because she didn't answer the door Shannon ran like crazy knowing imminent death was inevitable.
****** The long island Serial killer murdered Shannon. He made certain that future escorts do not bring cell phones so he doesn't have another risky episode chasing a woman calling 911 through treacherous terrain.
******* That explains why after the encounter with Shannon, Megan and amber left there cell phones behind.
Shannon ran from Gus coletti's house. She knew the people killing were coming. (Fight and flight kicked in) that explains why she ran from his house and didn't say anything to him. I also believe that's why she ran from Mrs brennans house because no one answered the door.
Remember cops don't prevent crimes, they show up afterwards. Remember that

 

[WINDSOR]

I believe your summation is very very accurate.

Well done.

WINDSOR

 

[deedee21]

I believe your summation is very very accurate.

Well done.

WINDSOR

Or she was slipped crystal meth, lsd, or some simular drug.

 

[maddalena1]

******* If someone was trying to kill Shannon Gilbert and she ran the to home of gus coletti banging on his door screaming they are trying to kill me. She honestly felt her life was in imminent danger.* I believe shortly after Ms Gilbert went inside Mr coletti's kitchen she realized really quickly, how am i safe from people trying to kill me before the police get here by an older retired gentleman. She ran to a neighbors house and because she didn't answer the door Shannon ran like crazy knowing imminent death was inevitable.
****** The long island Serial killer murdered Shannon. He made certain that future escorts do not bring cell phones so he doesn't have another risky episode chasing a woman calling 911 through treacherous terrain.
******* That explains why after the encounter with Shannon, Megan and amber left there cell phones behind.
Shannon ran from Gus coletti's house. She knew the people killing were coming. (Fight and flight kicked in) that explains why she ran from his house and didn't say anything to him. I also believe that's why she ran from Mrs brennans house because no one answered the door.
Remember cops don't prevent crimes, they show up afterwards. Remember that

This is exactly what I feel happened too.

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[Chewy]

A few observations. Seems like people are making "leaps" of logic when Occam's razor ought to be used.

Simple obvious answers

A. The reason the doctor changed his story is that he realized that he put his medical license at risk by getting involved. Seems like his change of tune matches him speaking to a lawyer who said that as a doctor if he involved himself with SG and she turned up dead then he'd be open to accusations of malpractice. I don't think he's criminally involved and I don't think he said he let her stay at his house a few days. I just think he was trying to be a hero. I also think that what he actually said may have gotten mixed up by her family. For example if he said "I let her stay here for a while" he could have meant 1 hour and they took it to mean several days. Something like that.


B. I was obvious to me that SG was having some sort of psychotic break. Her behavior that night is very much like a schizophrenic's behavior. Paranoia and frantic energy. People suggesting that she didn't feel like an old man could protect her? Well shutting the front door and waiting for the cops to arrive is a lot smarter than running back out into the street alone in the dark. It makes no logical sense that if she was truly afraid for her life that she'd do that especially since everyone keeps going on and on about how long it took the cops to get there. She'd already been on the phone for a while with 911 and they were trying to locate her. When Gus called she would have thought they would show right up. Makes no sense she'd run from house to house like this.

I think in light of her sister's recent issues, this was probably an episode and the first time she ever had one. That's why MP thought she was messing around. It seemed so over the top.

Either the John slipped her something or she had a psychotic break. If the John slipped her something and it hit her the wrong way it could have messed her up and pushed her over the edge.

Imagine if he really is the LISK and one of his potential victims had a total melt down in his house prior to him killing her? Maybe he said something with a dark meaning and she was unhinged and panicked. Like if he said, "I'd like to cut you apart" to a sex worker, she might get creeped out or think he was talking about a fetish. But a girl in the middle of a schizophrenic episode could take it literally and freak out.

That's why he asked MP to come inside and get her. He realized she was a wreck and not what he was looking for in his victims.

 

[Kali&89]

Shannon and the Marsh ... Why were her pants off?
Today by coincidence I was speaking with a young woman who knows nothing of Shannon or my interest in her case. This young lady was telling me how she had to run from police and security guards in the middle of the night through a marsh which had water up to her knees and reeds so thick she said she could barely push through them.At one point in her story she said"luckily I was wearing shorts if I had been wearing jeans I would have had to take them off.... and I almost lost my shoes" Well when she said this I instantly thought of Shannon.. so I quizzed her and said really even though you were being chased you would have taken your jeans off and she said" yes I would have hid and crouched down for a moment and taken them off and kept running"... She also said "it was so dark out it was pitch black and I was so disoriented I don't know how I got out of there it was one of the hardest things I've ever done" The only difference is she wasn't being chased by someone who wanted her dead and she wasn't on drugs. My point is that her story made me rethink Shannons story and the possibility that Shannon may have removed her own clothing and because she was on drugs she very well have been too disoriented to find her way out of the marsh and fallen down and died from hypothermia and exhaustion.

 

[WINDSOR]

Shannon and the Marsh ... Why were her pants off?
Today by coincidence I was speaking with a young woman who knows nothing of Shannon or my interest in her case. This young lady was telling me how she had to run from police and security guards in the middle of the night through a marsh which had water up to her knees and reeds so thick she said she could barely push through them.At one point in her story she said"luckily I was wearing shorts if I had been wearing jeans I would have had to take them off.... and I almost lost my shoes" Well when she said this I instantly thought of Shannon.. so I quizzed her and said really even though you were being chased you would have taken your jeans off and she said" yes I would have hid and crouched down for a moment and taken them off and kept running"... She also said "it was so dark out it was pitch black and I was so disoriented I don't know how I got out of there it was one of the hardest things I've ever done" The only difference is she wasn't being chased by someone who wanted her dead and she wasn't on drugs. My point is that her story made me rethink Shannons story and the possibility that Shannon may have removed her own clothing and because she was on drugs she very well have been too disoriented to find her way out of the marsh and fallen down and died from hypothermia and exhaustion.

One has to be very careful in comparing similar incidents, and using one to explain the other.

In the situation you describe it was 'really dark'. In Shannan's situation the sun was rising.

We do not know what the temperature was when your woman was running through the marsh, obviously it was warm enough for her to be wearing shorts. It was not that warm when Shannan was running.

Once MP left Oak Beach at about 6:15am, there was no reason for Shannan to run, nobody was looking for her, ( was there?)

The woman states that it was an advantage to wear shorts rather than pants in her situation.

How badly were the woman's legs scratched from the reeds and bushes when running in shorts?

Did the police who were months later, searching for bodies in the same general area, prefer shorts to pants?

I ask how many people who walk in marshland prefer shorts to pants in cool weather?

Yes I agree that possibly Shannan removed her own clothing to help herself in the marsh, however based on the time, temperature and other factors I think the probability is much much higher she did not do so voluntarily.

 

[avessweeney]

Josh Zeman and Rachel Mills have suggested along with local law enforcement officials the most likely scenario: she expired in the marsh on that evening in Long Island. She in a drug-fueled rampage began experiencing psychosis and with the brutal elements of that evening, began to go into hypothermic shock and began tearing off her clothes and then progressed to her perishing.

 

[maddalena1]

Josh Zeman and Rachel Mills have suggested along with local law enforcement officials the most likely scenario: she expired in the marsh on that evening in Long Island. She in a drug-fueled rampage began experiencing psychosis and with the brutal elements of that evening, began to go into hypothermic shock and began tearing off her clothes and then progressed to her perishing.

Never

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[WINDSOR]

Josh Zeman and Rachel Mills have suggested along with local law enforcement officials the most likely scenario: she expired in the marsh on that evening in Long Island. She in a drug-fueled rampage began experiencing psychosis and with the brutal elements of that evening, began to go into hypothermic shock and began tearing off her clothes and then progressed to her perishing.

The 'drug fueled rampage' is such a red herring, I think it is time to debunk it once and for all.

1) The last time Shannan ingested street drugs was most likely prior to the 911 phone call started, which was at 4:51 am.

2) Most street drugs begin their effect on the user in a matter of minutes not hours. These drugs also have a very short half-life, meaning the impact lessens rapidly. (We can be pretty sure Shannan had not taken LSD or other longer lasting hallucinogens.)

3) Shannan, disappeared according to MP at about 5:45am, approximately an hour after she possibly took any drugs.

Millions of Americans daily use street drugs, a significant number overdose and die, that is sadly not unusual. However they tend not call 911; not knock on doors seeking help first.

Say what you want, but calling 911, running from a pursuer, knocking on doors asking for help, are not signs of being "in a drug-fueled rampage "

The fact the SCPD suggested this 'drug' scenario immediately, makes its even more unbelievable.

 

[avessweeney]

Wasn't JB and her driver both cleared of any involvement in her death? Her remains did not indicate any signs of trauma that she would be involved in foul play of some sort.

 

[avessweeney]

I want to see the toxicology behind Shannon not taking any longer lasting hallucinogens, but have we considered maybe she ingested something that reacted badly with the drugs she was taking? All over the country, I can provide many accounts of people using hallucinogens or bath salts or whatever crap to get their rocks off and then believing other people are going to harm them, so they react with pulling knives, resisting police, or it can be possible: calling 911. Until that 911 tape is released, there is no way we can certainly determine the nature of her death, but if there is no one else on the tape definitely, no trauma to her body, it is hard for us to say LISK was involved.

 

[fred&edna]

I want to see the toxicology behind Shannon not taking any longer lasting hallucinogens, but have we considered maybe she ingested something that reacted badly with the drugs she was taking? All over the country, I can provide many accounts of people using hallucinogens or bath salts or whatever crap to get their rocks off and then believing other people are going to harm them, so they react with pulling knives, resisting police, or it can be possible: calling 911. Until that 911 tape is released, there is no way we can certainly determine the nature of her death, but if there is no one else on the tape definitely, no trauma to her body, it is hard for us to say LISK was involved.

IMO - She was murdered (at the hands of LISK, I don't know)

Dr Baden had his theory, the medical examiner had his/hers. But, just my opinion... It took LE such a very long time to locate her body... well, I doubt there was much to learn from her remains.

My theory on this case is a simple one, a Joseph Heller quote, "'Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you"

 

[WINDSOR]

Wasn't JB and her driver both cleared of any involvement in her death? Her remains did not indicate any signs of trauma that she would be involved in foul play of some sort.

I do not understand your use of the term 'cleared'? If you mean by cleared, charges have not been laid, you are correct.

If you are using the term to say charges will never be laid, that is incorrect. No official statement has been made to that effect.

The best you will ever get from most police jurisdictions is something to the effect of, " not a Person of Interest at this time.

 

[WINDSOR]

I want to see the toxicology behind Shannon not taking any longer lasting hallucinogens, but have we considered maybe she ingested something that reacted badly with the drugs she was taking? All over the country, I can provide many accounts of people using hallucinogens or bath salts or whatever crap to get their rocks off and then believing other people are going to harm them, so they react with pulling knives, resisting police, or it can be possible: calling 911. Until that 911 tape is released, there is no way we can certainly determine the nature of her death, but if there is no one else on the tape definitely, no trauma to her body, it is hard for us to say LISK was involved.

My understanding was that Shannan's body was too decomposed to yield useful toxicology information.

Again what happens 'all over the country' is a poor way of explaining what happened to Shannan. She did not pull a knife on anybody, she summoned the police, and was not threatening to anybody she came into contact with that night. When you look at her verified actions, she was showing no signs of psychotic behavior.

Trying to explain certain unusual events (no pants) to psychotic behavior is not reasonable. There are lots of possible explanations of why her pants were removed, either willingly or unwillingly.

Just because Shanna's body was found in the marsh, that does not mean she even entered it alive.


How many of the dead women found beside Ocean Parkway as Shannan was, walked there? Most were drug users, but none of them had a 'psychotic episode' and ended up accidently dead there.

There are three groups of people who have a vested interest in the theory that Shannan died naturally,
1) The Killer(s)
2) The Accomplishes and Witnesses.
3) Some Law Enforcement, who cannot for a variety of reasons, solve the crime.