Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert

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Seaslug44

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ok now this is weird
I grabbed a screen shot of where her remains were found including the map key.
It is definitely beyond 100 feet.
However it is a bit less then 100 yards. So not surprised at the reports from journalists. No wonder I was confused at first or as with reading the articles on this case.
eta:
What I did is copy the 50 feet length from the key, you can see in red. Then I doubled it exactly with ps, giving me 100 feet. Then I made 3 layers of that to equal 100 yards. You can see the 3 segments of the 100 feet in the line. To me it looks like just over 200 feet. weird
100yards-1.jpg

Can you confirm where you are finding the location of where she was found? Your diagram shows a location that is over 200 feet from where I thought she was found. I never searched my high-def photos of the area you are showing because it looks much further away from where I thought her body was found. Please show me something to confirm the location and I will upload a close up of where her remains were found (the area where I think she was found has a canopy of too many small trees to see anything on my photos). I am hoping that I made a mistake so possibly I can indeed zoom in on her remains if they were found where there is no canopy. The area where I have her as being found is basically at the end of your first 100 foot marker.
 

the quiet girl

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Interesting I had her at the end of the 200 marker and just beyond that. You see the wide clearing then the first set of trees where two are and an indent. I had looked and looked and observed pics and was sure that is where her remains where. I had looked and zoomed in also looking for clues as to when her body should have been there did not see much either. I shall look where you are saying you had her remains found at.
 

Just K

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I want to know why Blue didn't detect the scent and locate/find Shannan's remains.
In addition did Investigators find her:
blonde wig
metal jaw plate
her bra
her tank top
Was any jewelry found (the other earring, a bracelet, necklace or any rings or piercing jewelry)

Was the vegetation and soil, under her skeleton consistent with having a decomposing body lying there for 18 months

Were the exposed bones (those facing upward) different color than the unexposed bones and the bones that came in contact with the soil and any vegetation.

Was there any indication of animal activity on the bones

What was the condition of her teeth (any broken teeth?)

Was silt found in the pockets of the jeans and inside the purse

Were fingerprints found on the purse or cellphone

Was any data able to be recovered from the actual phone?

Until I know the answer to those questions and know if tests to provide answers to the above were even conducted...then I cannot even make an educated guess.

But, based on the fact that the ME, eight months after autopsy, still hasn't released the remains and the above questions have not been answered, publicly, I lean toward Foul Play.
 

hawkshaw

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There may well be a perfectly reasonable explanation why the cops didn’t bother to search the marsh area where the body of SG was later found.

These sort of calls come in all the time, e.g., screams for help, etc. The cops MAY have been negligent on two counts: 1. Didn’t respond quickly. 2. May have heard something at the scene and didn’t act on it. We will never know. There is really not much a cop can do in like situations……where are you going to look? Whose door are you going to knock on at 5am? Unless a police officer gets there ASAP to hear the screams for themselves, or find a person that heard the screams and is out in the street, it is almost an impossible exercise.

What you folks have to keep in mind is the SG case was really a ‘nothing’ case to begin with. Kind of routine call that one hopes doesn’t come back to bite you in the butt.. If there was a search it was probably over before it started. The SG case gets attention because the mother is getting some ink in the media, It probably never occurred to the cops SG was actually missing. There must be another explanation for it. Besides, she is a prostitute and possible crack head…what’s the big deal. Bottom line is the cops never seem to take her disappearance seriously. The obvious direction to look is the direction she was last seen running. It doesn’t look like they bothered. Give it the ole college try and make it look like you are doing something.

Momma Gilbert keeps the pressure on. She is getting their attention. This is manageable but it ain’t going away.

K9 Cop says to himself, why not take a look, what else do I have to do. He gets to the area and instead of looking over the marsh area he goes in the opposite direction. He finds SG!!! No, he didn’t but he found someone. This is all over the news. How many others are out there that if we don’t find it is going to come back and bite us? SG in now a VERY BIG DEAL. Somebody finally gets a brainstorm that maybe we should look in the direction our witnesses saw SG last running? Give that man a medal for such intuitive thinking.

The next question is how do we explain we didn’t look to the most obvious area. You have to give a reason why you suddenly switched gears? Suggest that it was a ‘tip’ and the people will buy it.
 

twocuriouscats

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Thanks for the effort put into that post hawkshaw, a lot of knowledge there to absorb. As far as a more logical explanation as to the cause of death, hypothermia should not be overlooked. It has happened to much stronger people than her and even in warmer conditions than you had that early morning in the brambles. The incident down in Fl at camp rudder comes to mind where we lost four Rangers while training out on a swollen river after disembarking their raft and slogging through the swamp. I don't know how much water the area she traversed had in it at the time but I would imagine she was both wet and exhausted after the quarter mile trek not to mention her mental state, her body might have just shut down at that point in which case you would not find a cause of death. I also cant help but to think it would've took only a few hundred dollars and a chopper to find her the next day and more than likely on dry ground, leaving the other remains perhaps going undiscovered for who knows how long.

Thank you - hypothermia makes way more sense than anything I've heard...I still can't figure out why Shannan (non-swimmer) would travel so far once she bogged down or stuck enough to lose her pants...I can see her panicking at that moment and trying to move - probably to retreat away from the water - not go towards it. Dormer said she probably saw the lights of the RM bridge so she went towards that beacon of light...IDK...unless the bad guys were after her so she tried to make it to safety - IOW drowning was a possibility in her mind but what was behind her was worse...(sorry, that's a bit graphic).
 

fred&edna

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If hypothermia is such a likely possibility then why didn't LE offer it a possibility instead of drowning airly on?? (that's my impression of TS doing his impression of someone else :))
 

WINDSOR

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We have had the discussion re-hypothermia months ago. I asked in the hundreds of years that records have been kept, when was the last time someone died of hypothermia in the Oak Beach, Gilgo Beach, Jones Beach area ? If there had been a previous incident, were the weather conditions similar?

It seems it is pretty uncommon in this area in the weather conditions that SG died in.

That is not to say it was not possibly, but unlikely.

MOO
 

mcme

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We have had the discussion re-hypothermia months ago. I asked in the hundreds of years that records have been kept, when was the last time someone died of hypothermia in the Oak Beach, Gilgo Beach, Jones Beach area ? If there had been a previous incident, were the weather conditions similar?

It seems it is pretty uncommon in this area in the weather conditions that SG died in.

That is not to say it was not possibly, but unlikely.

MOO

It's my opinion that it never happening before doesn't make it less likely. Outdoor temps, exhaustion, being wet and having no nearby shelter or aid makes it very likely. I also think it's very possible she was chased in there by nothing more than her own demons.
 

truthspider

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It's my opinion that it never happening before doesn't make it less likely. Outdoor temps, exhaustion, being wet and having no nearby shelter or aid makes it very likely. I also think it's very possible she was chased in there by nothing more than her own demons.

The only demons involved in this case are a few men from oak beach, and some of their neighbors who would rather let a murderer go free then have a stain on their community. Heartless weaklings all of em.

If you really feel that this was nothing more than an accidental death, why are you so interested in this forum? Seems contradictory.
 

PreciousDust

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...in the hundreds of years that records have been kept, when was the last time someone died of hypothermia in the Oak Beach, Gilgo Beach, Jones Beach area ?
It had never happened before, nor had a prostitute ever run through the bushes pantless there at 3 in the morning - it's a first for both!


If you really feel that this was nothing more than an accidental death, why are you so interested in this forum?
The "High Definition Arial (sic) Images of the Entire Island" forum? That would probably be applicable to GB4 as well (and while those girls may have OD'd, they definitely didn't die of hypothermia).
 

mcme

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The only demons involved in this case are a few men from oak beach, and some of their neighbors who would rather let a murderer go free then have a stain on their community. Heartless weaklings all of em.

If you really feel that this was nothing more than an accidental death, why are you so interested in this forum? Seems contradictory.

Truth, I've been interested in the whole story from pretty much the start. It's an odd and intriguing story from SG vanishing to the other bodies being found, from people inserting themselves in the story to conspiracy theories of the highest order. It's still interesting to me. That's why I'm here at this forum.
I didn't come here with an opinion one way or the other. I've looked at all the stories and facts presented, used common sense trying to sort out fact from fiction,added a little probability, and came to my current thoughts on this case. They are, if you're interested, that SG died tragically but accidentally, that the GB4 were killed by the same person, and that the body parts matching other locations on the island have something to do with the Manorville bodies also. And that none of those are related to the bodies found in Atlantic City. I'm open to the possibility I'm wrong, so I spend time here reading other points of view to test my convictions. The only thing contradictory is your vs. my opinion, and how boring would this place be if everyone had exactly the same thoughts on the case.
 

truthspider

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Truth, I've been interested in the whole story from pretty much the start. It's an odd and intriguing story from SG vanishing to the other bodies being found, from people inserting themselves in the story to conspiracy theories of the highest order. It's still interesting to me. That's why I'm here at this forum.
I didn't come here with an opinion one way or the other. I've looked at all the stories and facts presented, used common sense trying to sort out fact from fiction,added a little probability, and came to my current thoughts on this case. They are, if you're interested, that SG died tragically but accidentally, that the GB4 were killed by the same person, and that the body parts matching other locations on the island have something to do with the Manorville bodies also. And that none of those are related to the bodies found in Atlantic City. I'm open to the possibility I'm wrong, so I spend time here reading other points of view to test my convictions. The only thing contradictory is your vs. my opinion, and how boring would this place be if everyone had exactly the same thoughts on the case.

Do you think the killer of the G4 is a resident of the barrier?
 

mcme

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Do you think the killer of the G4 is a resident of the barrier?

Well, the person responsible has to live somewhere, and that includes the barrier beach area, but I don't see anything that suggests that is where they're from. In a word, no.
 

WINDSOR

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It's my opinion that it never happening before doesn't make it less likely. Outdoor temps, exhaustion, being wet and having no nearby shelter or aid makes it very likely. I also think it's very possible she was chased in there by nothing more than her own demons.

mcme, Being a resident of more Northern Climates, than Oak Beach, where death due to hypothermia is not an unknown occurrence, if it has not happened before in Oak Beach, that tends to support the argument it did not happen in this case.

I agree that somebody can die of exposure even on a warm dry day/night, but it is very rare. The fact that it never happened before tends to not to support the theory it happened in this case.

Let me give you the corollary, if on average six persons died in the Oak Beach marsh every ten years from exposure since 1790, I would say its likely that is what happened to SG.but the statistics do not support this.

I could say that SG made it to the highway, tried to flag down a passing car. The driver of the car was intoxicated, and travelling at a high rate of speed. his car hit SG with such force that her body ended up her remains were found.

A possible scenario but not likely.

I believe it is important to focus on what likely could have happened before we consider what might have happened.

MOO
 

WINDSOR

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mcme,

It is not my intention to gang up on you, and people like me and TS and others have very strong opinions about this case. In my view there is nothing accidental about what happened that May night.

Speaking only for myself I believe when you look at the characters involved, CPH, JB, MP, and SG; add in sex, drugs and money; the chances anything happening by accident, and/or by natural causes seem pretty slim.

MOO
 

mcme

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mcme, Being a resident of more Northern Climates, than Oak Beach, where death due to hypothermia is not an unknown occurrence, if it has not happened before in Oak Beach, that tends to support the argument it did not happen in this case.

I agree that somebody can die of exposure even on a warm dry day/night, but it is very rare. The fact that it never happened before tends to not to support the theory it happened in this case.

Let me give you the corollary, if on average six persons died in the Oak Beach marsh every ten years from exposure since 1790, I would say its likely that is what happened to SG.but the statistics do not support this.

I could say that SG made it to the highway, tried to flag down a passing car. The driver of the car was intoxicated, and travelling at a high rate of speed. his car hit SG with such force that her body ended up her remains were found.

A possible scenario but not likely.

I believe it is important to focus on what likely could have happened before we consider what might have happened.

MOO

WINDSOR, I see why you're getting to your belief that if it hasn't happened yet, it's unlikely to have happened now. But you're discounting that to die from hypothermia, all you need is to be cold with no way of getting your body temp back up. Being wet, exhausted and not dressed for the temps that were there that morning, and being far from anybody or anyplace that could give aid, IS the formula for dying of hypothermia.
 

mcme

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mcme,

It is not my intention to gang up on you, and people like me and TS and others have very strong opinions about this case. In my view there is nothing accidental about what happened that May night.

Speaking only for myself I believe when you look at the characters involved, CPH, JB, MP, and SG; add in sex, drugs and money; the chances anything happening by accident, and/or by natural causes seem pretty slim.

MOO

WINDSOR, don't worry about me feeling ganged up on. I've said it before, my E skin is thick and my E feelings are bulletproof. I agree it's a colorful cast of players, but they just are not involved with one another to the degree where a conspiracy between any of them would hold up. If they were, LE would be all over it. Oh, unless of course they're also involved in what is now a conspiracy of epic proportions.
 

CriminalMinds

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We have had the discussion re-hypothermia months ago. I asked in the hundreds of years that records have been kept, when was the last time someone died of hypothermia in the Oak Beach, Gilgo Beach, Jones Beach area ? If there had been a previous incident, were the weather conditions similar?

It seems it is pretty uncommon in this area in the weather conditions that SG died in.

That is not to say it was not possibly, but unlikely.

MOO

just curious, does anyone know how hypothermia would be proven when only skeletal remains exist(no muscle or tissue)? bone marrow test?
 

truthspider

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WINDSOR, don't worry about me feeling ganged up on. I've said it before, my E skin is thick and my E feelings are bulletproof. I agree it's a colorful cast of players, but they just are not involved with one another to the degree where a conspiracy between any of them would hold up. If they were, LE would be all over it. Oh, unless of course they're also involved in what is now a conspiracy of epic proportions.

A proactive phone call full of lies from OB to MG indicates guilt. Somebody in OB felt the need to lie about the girls well being and location. These are not the actions of an innocent party.

You may not be privy to everyone's activities in OB. Activities including drugs and mongering aren't generally advertised. These characters would only have to briefly cross paths that night, and a full conspiracy isn't required. If there wasn't an extremely good reason to search an ex~county directors house and property with cadaver dogs during LI's highest profile case, do you really think SCPD would have?
 
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