Public appearances and other forms of cashing in ..

[fran]

ATTENTION PLEASE!

It appears there are a few posters who need a reminder of our TOS:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159"]The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


One rule that always comes in handy, "Agree to disagree and move on."

fran

:seeya:

 

[Miranda!]

<<snipped for space>>

Baldwin is a convicted child murderer and will never be able to practice law in the US.

Please cite the Federal law that establishes your declaration and also similar for every State in the Union please.

He may not even be able to attend class because he is considered a felon. Some colleges don't allow convicted child murders to attend classes in person

So he has to be attending college as in an 'out of body' experience? I had not realised that colleges and universities had fellow students under the age of ten. Am I also to assume that Canada, New Zealand and The Netherlands have no boys under 10?

Having gained his degree he most likely will need to make a special case to present to a Judge in order to gain a license for that particular state should he wish to actually practice. That point I will grant you!

I thought he just asked for money so that he can take off for a year to write a book?

He has submitted a 'business' outline for which he would appreciate some investment. It is a new way of putting the power inthe hands of the people rather than the banks! No-one is forced to chip in. I think it is a mad way to go about it and that he would be far wiser finding a literary agent and trying to get an old fashioned publishing deal! This would mean both an advance on having a synopsis approved as well as editorial help from a professional. The last quarter of the advance would be paid on publication day and he would be expected to be available for any book promotion arrangements the publisher makes.

What used to be regarded as 'vanity publishing' has undergone a change of image with the internet. However things like proofing, indexing, clearing copyrights and obtaining releases all has to be done by the writer rather than the editor's team at the publishing house taking care of it.

Jason should you, or any representative, be reading this and decide to go this way - do not hesitate to contact me for help with the indexing if needed! I have done this before, including a biography for Penguin!

Well the secret evidence is a fraud otherwise they would have submitted it. I know I've seen posts from another supporter claiming such nonsense, but if it were real, we'd know about it especially by now.

And you know this how? Whilst you are answering that, who should it be submitted to? Maybe Ridge would be the guy - he has a track record of both perjuring himself on the witness stand and losing evidence. He continued to 'protect and serve' after these events!

And if you do read the news then you will be well aware of some of the problems we have had over here with dishonest policemen. They are usually put on desk leave or taken off active duty (depending on severity of 'crime'). When perjury is established they 'resign'.

I, too, read the news. It has not gone unoticed that some get out for time served, some get no time at all and some get life or the DP. At times I imagine that Lady Justice has her eyes firmly fixed on the bottom line of the bank statement! 'Fair and balanced'? I think not.

Are you and kyle bombarding the judiciary in Crittendon Country and the Governor and the AG of the state of Arkansas about the release of 'child killers'?

With apologies to other posters here for going so off topic!

 

[reedus23]

You may not be aware of this, but here in the US some of our convicts are released even the ones who have committed murder. I've followed other cases and I read the news. They were not released because they are innocent or they were exonerated or vacated. They plead guilty and were paroled for time served and if they screw that up they could actually go right back to prison.

Other than for cases where they are released because their convictions were overturned or because it was subsequently determined they were wrongfully convicted, please point me to one case where a person was sentenced to death and then was released because it was felt he served a long enough sentence. Thank you.

 

[primitivefuture]

I don't believe that I have ever claimed that taking an Alford plea proves their innocence as was claimed. I have stated that I believe they are innocent, and I have stated that the Alford plea allowed them to maintain their innocence while pleading guilty. Just wanted to clarify.

Based on his statement at the time of their release, it looks to me like Judge Laser believes they are innocent as well.

"I believe this ruling will give rise to discussions for a long time to come. I don't think it will make the pain go away for the families of the victims. I don't think it will make the pain go away for the families of defendants. It won't take away a minute of the time these men have served in prison. This is a tragedy on all sides."

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[reedus23]

Please cite the Federal law that establishes your declaration and also similar for every State in the Union please.

Every state regulates the requirements to practice law in their particular state. I say that because I'm not about to research all 50 states. The most common answer to the question is, however, that a convicted child murderer is NOT precluded from practicing law in most states. Nearly all states require that the individual pass a character examine and certainly any felony convictions will be part of that examine. However, there are countless examples of people with felony, and even murder, convictions who have later become licensed to practice law. Some states may place added requirements on convicted felons before they can practice law, such as a time period that must elapse after sentence before applying for licensure, demonstrable rehabilitation or other requirements. The statement as made previously is inaccurate and appears to be made simply to release outrage and disgust instead of for discussion purposes.

 

[Miranda!]

Every state regulates the requirements to practice law in their particular state. I say that because I'm not about to research all 50 states. . . . . .

Agreed. No way was I asking just anyone to research all the stature books of each state - it was firmly directed at udb who made the very sweeping declaration above.

If anyone here does happen across any other uses of the Alfrod Plea I would love to know. It would be fascinating how many times it has been evoked and of those, how many were NOT pre-trial plea agreements but rather post conviction ploys in order to obtain the release purely to make a case 'go away'! Would there be any other reason for its use in that scenarion?

Something tells me that this case is in a class of its own and, as such, unique. Off Death Row - it has to be.

On murderers getting no jail time. There was that recent case of weathly lad in Texas whose attorney played the 'affluenza' defence. Probation and re-hab after killing 4 pedestrians when three times over the legal limit???

Have not seen anything more on the case, but he was not alone in his car and he and his friends had also stolen two crates of beer. God help them if they were born on the wrong side of the tracks.

BOT (= Back On Topic!)
I am certain that if Jason Baldwin were to want to be licensed in a state that he would not have any problems, as this case is so often featured and known about, more and more, in legal circles! Maybe States down south like Arkansas and those states bordering on it would not be such a good idea.

 

[primitivefuture]

If anyone here does happen across any other uses of the Alfrod Plea I would love to know.

I came across this article earlier today.
http://m.chron.com/news/crime/article/Final-defendant-in-slaying-enters-Alford-plea-5124107.php





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[reedus23]

Agreed. No way was I asking just anyone to research all the stature books of each state - it was firmly directed at udb who made the very sweeping declaration above.

Sorry. Didn't mean to imply you did. I was cutting off what I anticipated to be the next response, not necessarily from you.

If anyone here does happen across any other uses of the Alfrod Plea I would love to know. It would be fascinating how many times it has been evoked and of those, how many were NOT pre-trial plea agreements but rather post conviction ploys in order to obtain the release purely to make a case 'go away'! Would there be any other reason for its use in that scenarion?

I have witnessed 1000's of pleas being entered and have witnessed 0 Alford Pleas. It obviously happens, but I think it's safe to say it's rare. As far as it being used AFTER defendant's have been convicted...this is the only case I am aware of.

On murderers getting no jail time. There was that recent case of weathly lad in Texas whose attorney played the 'affluenza' defence. Probation and re-hab after killing 4 pedestrians when three times over the legal limit???

If this was in reply to me, I was referencing the fact that I am not aware of any cases where a death row inmate was released without it being due to an overturned conviction or something of the sort. A comment was made earlier by another poster that made the assertion that it's not unusual for murderers to be released. While I agree that murderers given less than a death penalty or life without parole can and do get released, I don't think it's very common, if at all, that a death row inmate is allowed back into society.

BOT (= Back On Topic!)
I am certain that if Jason Baldwin were to want to be licensed in a state that he would not have any problems, as this case is so often featured and known about, more and more, in legal circles! Maybe States down south like Arkansas and those states bordering on it would not be such a good idea.

I agree. Little doubt he could get a license somewhere.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Baldwin would not be able to become an attorney in the US because he is a convicted multiple child murderer. There's no way around that one.

He would not be admitted due to not only not having the education, but he would not, could not meet the standard of character and fitness required in order for him to even take the bar exam.

http://www.ncbex.org/assets/media_files/Comp-Guide/CompGuide.pdf

There are actually attorneys who have been barred from having committed crimes here in the US. Others countries I'm not sure of because I have no interest in other countries laws or court cases.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Other than for cases where they are released because their convictions were overturned or because it was subsequently determined they were wrongfully convicted, please point me to one case where a person was sentenced to death and then was released because it was felt he served a long enough sentence. Thank you.

You might want to follow the Debra Milke case. She won a new trial and is out on bond as of now. We will see if she decides to plea guilty and then you might see the same play out with time served.

There are many other cases where when given a chance for a new trial whether pleaing guilty or receiving a guilty verdict their sentences are given the credit of time served.

 

[reedus23]

Baldwin would not be able to become an attorney in the US because he is a convicted multiple child murderer. There's no way around that one.

He would not be admitted due to not only not having the education, but he would not, could not meet the standard of character and fitness required in order for him to even take the bar exam.

http://www.ncbex.org/assets/media_files/Comp-Guide/CompGuide.pdf

There are actually attorneys who have been barred from having committed crimes here in the US. Others countries I'm not sure of because I have no interest in other countries laws or court cases.

You might be right. You might be wrong. But it is not as clear cut as you would make it out to be. There are absolutely convicted murderers who have become licensed to practice law. I can also guarantee you that the rules in most states specifically contemplate convicted felons seeking admission to the bar. If no convicted felon was ever permitted to gain admission to the bar at anytime under any circumstances as you would suggest, then why wouldn't the rules simply state a convicted felon can never be admitted? Why, instead, do most of them set forth requirements specifically for convicted felons to gain admission? I will make no blanket statement about a certain individual, including Baldwin, because there are too many unknowns. What state? Who, specifically(as in the person's name), will be reviewing the application for admission? What are the specific requirements of that state? What evidence of rehabilitation has been presented? The one thing that I think would help Baldwin is the fact, whether you like it or not, there are serious questions as to whether or not he even committed the crimes.

ETA - And thank you for the link. While informative, anything in it is simply a recommendation. Some are adopted by states. Some are not.

 

[reedus23]

You might want to follow the Debra Milke case. She won a new trial and is out on bond as of now. We will see if she decides to plea guilty and then you might see the same play out with time served.

There are many other cases where when given a chance for a new trial whether pleaing guilty or receiving a guilty verdict their sentences are given the credit of time served.

You already stated the biggest difference. She already won a new trial. That is why I said I have never seen it where a conviction is not overturned or something along those lines. Again, please show me a case where a person is convicted of murder and on death row but released and in which their conviction has not be overturned or a new trial granted or something along those lines.

 

[kyleb]

There are absolutely convicted murderers who have become licensed to practice law.

Do you know of any who claim they were scapegoated but didn't come anywhere close to proving as much in court?

 

[Miranda!]

There are actually attorneys who have been barred from having committed crimes here in the US. Others countries I'm not sure of because I have no interest in other countries laws or court cases.

Ahha! I suppose we should be glad that you do, in fact, recognise that other countries exist onthe planet! With your mind set you might have been happier had the founding fathers had modelled on the French Judicial system, where the defendant is guilty and has to prove innocence I seem to recall!!
One of the greatest things the internet has given us, the people of this planet, is the ability to learn more about other cultures and countries. Rather sad to collide with such an insular attitude.

By the way Jason is already well on his way getting the education he needs in order to get a law degree! Someone with his experience and integrity is seriously needed as an advocate for minors.

I have to admit to being rather confused at the American Education system as it seems children can graduate! Over here students are undergraduates right up until they have obtained their academic degrees at Universities.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

You might be right. You might be wrong. But it is not as clear cut as you would make it out to be. There are absolutely convicted murderers who have become licensed to practice law. I can also guarantee you that the rules in most states specifically contemplate convicted felons seeking admission to the bar. If no convicted felon was ever permitted to gain admission to the bar at anytime under any circumstances as you would suggest, then why wouldn't the rules simply state a convicted felon can never be admitted? Why, instead, do most of them set forth requirements specifically for convicted felons to gain admission? I will make no blanket statement about a certain individual, including Baldwin, because there are too many unknowns. What state? Who, specifically(as in the person's name), will be reviewing the application for admission? What are the specific requirements of that state? What evidence of rehabilitation has been presented? The one thing that I think would help Baldwin is the fact, whether you like it or not, there are serious questions as to whether or not he even committed the crimes.

ETA - And thank you for the link. While informative, anything in it is simply a recommendation. Some are adopted by states. Some are not.

When one looks at Chart 2, Column 2 of the link provided, one sees that only three states (Mississippi, Missouri and Texas) and one territory (N. Mariana Islands) said that a felony conviction was an automatic reason for refusal for admission to law school and even those political entities had exceptions (in the footnotes). Many states and territories have certain requirements for convicted felons (as you pointed out), but very few make an absolute statement that a felony conviction means that the convicted felon can never practice law. True, some states require a pardon and restoration of civil rights before admission to law school. However, that is not the case in all states and territories. That chart is quite informative, indeed!

 

[kyleb]

Yeah, granted tripe child murder isn't your average felony conviction, but I've not found anything in the document which suggests that it's automatically grounds for rejection in most states.

 

[reedus23]

Do you know of any who claim they were scapegoated but didn't come anywhere close to proving as much in court?

I don't know and really care. Was simply trying to provide information about getting admitted to a state bar. I'm not about to research to see if any wrongly convicted murderers were granted a license.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Do you know of any who claim they were scapegoated but didn't come anywhere close to proving as much in court?

What is the point here? Because it does not matter. If there are convicted felons who have found a way to practice law, That is the only point that matters.

 

[kyleb]

I wouldn't be surprised if people who've been wrongly convicted of murder have become lawyers, or even some rightly convinced but who've long since repented and changed their ways, I just doubt that anyone who claims to have been wrongly convicted but never came anywhere close to proving as much in court have been accepted by the Bar. Besides, who would want to hire a lawyer who couldn't even win exoneration for himself?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I wouldn't be surprised if people who've been wrongly convicted of murder have become lawyers, I just doubt that anyone who claim to have been wrongly convicted but never came anywhere close to proving as much in court have been accepted by the Bar. Besides, who would want to hire a lawyer who couldn't even win exoneration for himself?

Oh boy, They have not come close to proving it? There is plenty of time for that.

HE has not even passed the bar, Why not give him a little time. I would hire him. I believe he would work zealously for the innocent.