Quesions for RDI about Burke's role

[Mysteeri]

The golf bag was retrieved a few days after.
Now be realistic here...they were taking their murdered 6-year old daughter to Atlanta for BURIAL. Do you really thing distraught parents would be thinking about making sure they had their GOLF CLUBS? What, you think JR wanted to get in a little putting at the cemetery?
The Rs were planning to move back to Atlanta anyway, and professional movers packed up the house as soon as LE released it (far too soon, IMHO).
Why couldn't they have had the golf clubs sent with the rest of their things? Have you seen the crime scene photo of exactly where the golf bag was? It is on here under "The Crime Scene". Scroll down to find the "crime scene- basement" and it is photo #72. If you can't find it I will post it for you.
http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-ramseycase.htm

Ah, that`s right, they were going for the funeral. It is strange to want the golf bag, though nothing strange in storing it in the basement and Pam collecting things for them. Seems somewhat risky to leave incriminating items in the golf bag, but I suppose it`s a possibility.

Thanks for the link to the pictures.

Ps. Where`s the info that JB hated the MyTwinn doll? In DOI, she didn`t really think it looked like her and was not enthusiastic about it, and Patsy was dissappointed. It didn`t cross my mind to connect that to the murder.

 

[DeeDee249]

Ah, that`s right, they were going for the funeral. It is strange to want the golf bag, though nothing strange in storing it in the basement and Pam collecting things for them. Seems somewhat risky to leave incriminating items in the golf bag, but I suppose it`s a possibility.

Thanks for the link to the pictures.

Ps. Where`s the info that JB hated the MyTwinn doll? In DOI, she didn`t really think it looked like her and was not enthusiastic about it, and Patsy was dissappointed. It didn`t cross my mind to connect that to the murder.

It may not have been connected to the murder. I wasn't saying that it was. There has been discussion about why the dolls were removed from the house rather than being packed up my the movers. There was no mention that I recall of a doll being buried with her. There is another mystery as well: an American Girl Doll was mailed to JR's Access Graphics office after the murder. It was ordered AFTER JB's death. No mention that LE ever investigated that incident- who ordered it, etc. Of course, following that paper trail (credit card statements, order history with the doll company, etc.) would require search warrants, and DA Hunter would never have allowed it.
But the Rs would have squawked loud and clear if a stranger had sent that to them. They never said a peep...

 

[Mysteeri]

It may not have been connected to the murder. I wasn't saying that it was. There has been discussion about why the dolls were removed from the house rather than being packed up my the movers. There was no mention that I recall of a doll being buried with her. There is another mystery as well: an American Girl Doll was mailed to JR's Access Graphics office after the murder. It was ordered AFTER JB's death. No mention that LE ever investigated that incident- who ordered it, etc. Of course, following that paper trail (credit card statements, order history with the doll company, etc.) would require search warrants, and DA Hunter would never have allowed it.
But the Rs would have squawked loud and clear if a stranger had sent that to them. They never said a peep...

Could they have planned to bury her with a doll or some toys? They also wanted the MyTwinn doll. Perhaps they just wanted various things and were not sure what to do, were distraught and confused. They went to bury JB but also stayed in Atlanta for a few days, and stayed in other peoples homes in Boulder too, so I think they would want things from their house even though the rest of the stuff would be moved later. If I thought they were guilty, then the collected items would be more significant, naturally. Could the doll ordered to Access Graphics just be for someones child?

 

[DeeDee249]

Could they have planned to bury her with a doll or some toys? They also wanted the MyTwinn doll. Perhaps they just wanted various things and were not sure what to do, were distraught and confused. They went to bury JB but also stayed in Atlanta for a few days, and stayed in other peoples homes in Boulder too, so I think they would want things from their house even though the rest of the stuff would be moved later. If I thought they were guilty, then the collected items would be more significant, naturally. Could the doll ordered to Access Graphics just be for someones child?

As far as I know, she was not buried with a doll. She was buried with a stuffed toy cat named "Mr. Socks". And a scarf belonging to her father. An odd choice for a child that was strangled.
I don't see why a doll would arrive at JR's office addressed to a Ramsey that would be for someone else's child. To me, it seemed there may have been concern on the part of an R as to where the doll was. Is smacks of guilt because no one would probably be thinking of the doll. But if the tape DID come from the doll obviously the R knew it and may have gotten rid of the original doll. Tan cotton fibers were mentioned in the list of what was found on the body. The R's may have gotten worried about it.
Obviously there would be some things they would want from the house and not want to have it moved. But the golf clubs should not be among those things. The doll? Maybe. But PR said herself that seeing the MyTwinn doll in her box have her a creepy feeling of looking like JB in a coffin and this was BEFORE she died. I don't know why she'd want that.

 

[Mysteeri]

As far as I know, she was not buried with a doll. She was buried with a stuffed toy cat named "Mr. Socks". And a scarf belonging to her father. An odd choice for a child that was strangled.
I don't see why a doll would arrive at JR's office addressed to a Ramsey that would be for someone else's child. To me, it seemed there may have been concern on the part of an R as to where the doll was. Is smacks of guilt because no one would probably be thinking of the doll. But if the tape DID come from the doll obviously the R knew it and may have gotten rid of the original doll. Tan cotton fibers were mentioned in the list of what was found on the body. The R's may have gotten worried about it.
Obviously there would be some things they would want from the house and not want to have it moved. But the golf clubs should not be among those things. The doll? Maybe. But PR said herself that seeing the MyTwinn doll in her box have her a creepy feeling of looking like JB in a coffin and this was BEFORE she died. I don't know why she'd want that.

Yeah, I just thought that they might have planned to bury her with some doll or toys, but were not sure which ones. Add to that the devastation of JB`s death, perhaps they did not even think clearly about the stuff they were taking with them. I myself am an excessive packer- I usually take too much stuff with me. About the doll ordered to AG, I meant that if the R`s bought it for someones child- did they have relatives, friends or co-workers with little girls? At least in Christmas, they seemed the kind of people who give a lot of gifts. They were staying in different places, so AG might be the place to deliver their post.

In RDI scenario, the dolls and golf bag are something to think about, as you described.

 

[madeleine]

JOHN RAMSEY: I just looked in and he was

3 in bed and he was asleep. I mean I knew he was

4 there and he was okay.



Okay.
What I don't get is.....you have a ransom note and it says one of your kids was kidnapped,that kid is not in her bed.....and you don't wake up the other one to see if he's okay,if he knows or heard anything?? :waitasec::waitasec:
Burke could have been the only one who witnessed something and you don't even bother to wake him up to ask some questions?Maybe he wasn't asleep,he could have been dead fgs,you don't even check?Another thing that tells me they knew exactly he's safe.Would you feel like this if one of your kids would have been kidnapped?

 

[madeleine]

I remember

22 discussing where should we take him; he needs to

23 get out of here; he needs to be safe.



So he wouldn't have been safer with THEM,in a house full of cops?He would have been safer at the White's with no one keeping an eye on him and with some kidnappers around the corner.RIGHT.

 

[Ravyn]

JOHN RAMSEY: I just looked in and he was

3 in bed and he was asleep. I mean I knew he was

4 there and he was okay.



Okay.
What I don't get is.....you have a ransom note and it says one of your kids was kidnapped,that kid is not in her bed.....and you don't wake up the other one to see if he's okay,if he knows or heard anything?? :waitasec::waitasec:
Burke could have been the only one who witnessed something and you don't even bother to wake him up to ask some questions?Maybe he wasn't asleep,he could have been dead fgs,you don't even check?Another thing that tells me they knew exactly he's safe.Would you feel like this if one of your kids would have been kidnapped?

I know I would keep my kids with me like you said house full of cops...That is the problem I think when the R's found out he was awake they got scared that one of the cops would talk to him,and the R's really didn't have time to see if Burke seen or heard anything..So next best thing to Burke out of there till Mommie and Daddy could talk to him...

 

[madeleine]

I know I would keep my kids with me like you said house full of cops...That is the problem I think when the R's found out he was awake they got scared that one of the cops would talk to him,and the R's really didn't have time to see if Burke seen or heard anything..So next best thing to Burke out of there till Mommie and Daddy could talk to him...

I agree,I never thought it was because he knew something and they needed to shut him up,a shrink would have noticed that he's hiding something.
They just weren't sure if he heard something or not and it was safer for THEM to take him out of there.

 

[Ravyn]

That was my first thought when I read when the R's took Burke out of there...Cause with him being heard on the 911 call I could almost see the R's faces when they realize Burke was awake....

 

[madeleine]

That was my first thought when I read when the R's took Burke out of there...Cause with him being heard on the 911 call I could almost see the R's faces when they realize Burke was awake....

One more problem they didn't need.Dunno there was something Patsy said during one of the LE interviews which really bothered me,the way she said it,something like he wasn't priority nr 1 that morning,he was sleeping and that meant he's fine,no need to bother.....sorry,but if there was a kidnapping and the kids were the target how the heck can you act like this?This is not the behaviour of a concerned parent who fears for his kids lives.Once again she shows that the RN was no threat,there was no threat at all actually,the only threat were the police officers who were going to find JB.But guess what,JR kinda solved that problem too by going down to the basement,didn't he.And their lawyers took it over from there.

 

[DeeDee249]

One more problem they didn't need.Dunno there was something Patsy said during one of the LE interviews which really bothered me,the way she said it,something like he wasn't priority nr 1 that morning,he was sleeping and that meant he's fine,no need to bother.....sorry,but if there was a kidnapping and the kids were the target how the heck can you act like this?This is not the behaviour of a concerned parent who fears for his kids lives.Once again she shows that the RN was no threat,there was no threat at all actually,the only threat were the police officers who were going to find JB.But guess what,JR kinda solved that problem too by going down to the basement,didn't he.And their lawyers took it over from there.

Even if they were not worried that someone would come back for him, for God's sake, wouldn't you at least want to know whether he HEARD something? I mean, his room was right down the hall.

 

[madeleine]

Even if they were not worried that someone would come back for him, for God's sake, wouldn't you at least want to know whether he HEARD something? I mean, his room was right down the hall.

Exactly.And I wonder why the cops didn't find it important to ask him some questions right away.

 

[voynich]

Exactly.And I wonder why the cops didn't find it important to ask him some questions right away.

not if linwood had any say

 

[BBB167893]

not if linwood had any say

Wood wasn't part of the team yet. But I get what you mean.

 

[passionflower]

IIRC wasn't Burke heard in the background of the 911 call? awake and told to go back to bed?
Wouldn't you hold him tight just in case someone was still in your home????
JMO

 

[DeeDee249]

Exactly.And I wonder why the cops didn't find it important to ask him some questions right away.

As much as they may have wanted to, LE would not have been able to even speak to BR without his parents' permission. And with the speed with which the parents removed the witness whose room was closest to their daughter's implied abduction (it was not yet known to be a murder)- do you really think they'd have allowed it? That was the reason WHY they got him 'outta Dodge so fast.
Because of his age, even if LE considered him a suspect (which they did not) they could not have questioned him or inferred in any way that he was responsible for the crime.

 

[voynich]

Even if they were not worried that someone would come back for him, for God's sake, wouldn't you at least want to know whether he HEARD something? I mean, his room was right down the hall.

that's the problem I have w/BR, what makes PR or JR so "sure" that BR would keep quiet and not slip out any info? How did they know BR was sleeping and/or would not tell anyone?

 

[DeeDee249]

that's the problem I have w/BR, what makes PR or JR so "sure" that BR would keep quiet and not slip out any info? How did they know BR was sleeping and/or would not tell anyone?

They didn't. That's why they got him out if the house so fast. That's the whole point. They told LE he was asleep the whole time, yet he was heard on an enhanced 911 tape. I think BR was awake and heard the commotion- and asked his parents what was happening. He was told to go to his room, stay in bed and as far as anyone else knew, he was told to say he was asleep.
BR did admit that he heard "loud talking" and was afraid, so he pretended to be asleep. His parents KNEW he wasn't asleep. They knew he heard something.

 

[voynich]

They didn't. That's why they got him out if the house so fast. That's the whole point. They told LE he was asleep the whole time, yet he was heard on an enhanced 911 tape. I think BR was awake and heard the commotion- and asked his parents what was happening. He was told to go to his room, stay in bed and as far as anyone else knew, he was told to say he was asleep.
BR did admit that he heard "loud talking" and was afraid, so he pretended to be asleep. His parents KNEW he wasn't asleep. They knew he heard something.

perhaps a separate thread is in order but where exactly can I hear this enhanced tape? Is there any debate over whether BR's voice is on it or that the tape is authentic and the voice heard is BR?