Question about laws regarding minors

[eileenhawkeye]

Beckner's history:

Mark Beckner has been the City of Boulder's Chief of Police since 1998. Beckner joined the Boulder Police Department in June 1978. His career with the Boulder Police Department is highlighted below:

(1978 -1981) Officer in department

(1981 -1983) Detective Division - handled property crimes

(1983) Promoted to Sergeant

(1983 -1991) Patrol Division - involved in tactical field training; served as supervisor of the Crime Scene Investigator program

(1985-86) in charge of the tactical patrol team, handling undercover investigations, bank robberies, criminal trespass cases, drug crimes, and burglaries
(1987-89) supervisor of the Liquor Code Enforcement Team
(1989-91) traffic supervisor (January 1991-October 1991)
(1991 -1994) Internal Affairs Investigator

(1991 -1994) Professional Standards Unit Supervisor in charge of all internal affairs investigations

(1994 - 1997) Promoted to Commander and assigned to Patrol as Commander of Watch II. Also assigned as Commander of the SWAT Team.

(1997) Assigned to take over Command of the JonBenet Ramsey investigation.

(1998) Assigned to Commander of the entire Detective Division

(June 1998) Promoted to Chief of Police

Beckner has a master's degree in Criminal Justice Administration from the University of Colorado in Denver.

In addition to his long career with the city, Beckner has experience in hostage negotiation, training on a variety of police topics and is a published author on police topics.

And also, Ferris State University - Location: Big Rapids, MICHIGAN
Bachelor's, Criminal Justice
1976 – 1978
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Who would be the person 'assigning' Beckner his positions?
It is uncanny that he was a student in Michigan, of all states.

It seems Chief Beckner certainly knew his way in (Internal Affairs) and around the Department prior to being assigned to take over the JBR case. Why would JB's case be such a can of worms............???

Why? Big Rapids is 2 hours from East Lansing, where Michigan State University is located, and 2 hours from Charlevoix. Plus, John was out of college by the time Beckner was in school. I don't really see the Michigan connection as being significant?

 

[madeleine]

it's a can of worms nobody wants to open because it's a delicate subject and it's hard to prove who did it,and I mean sexual assault.

No matter who did it and if that's what really killed her....what was the most important part that was covered up....sexual assault....her body was wiped off and her panties were changed.

some say she was assaulted as part of the staging,I don't buy that.Why undo it then.

After hiding it (or so they thought) what next....let's blame the murder on someone else and make it look like something else.Basically that's what the staging was all about.Divert attention from sexual assault to kidnapping gone wrong and from the real killer (a RDI) to IDI.

The head bash probably happened during the assault (to shut her up,silence her).
Cause if it would have been just an accident (head bash) they would have called 911 or police (if too late for an ambulance) and could have claimed she fell down the stairs or something.NO NEED whatsoever to complicate yourself with garrottes ,ransom notes and all the creepy stuff that happened there.

 

[madeleine]

if it was a pedo or anyone else why so eager to defend him (without even realizing,which means it's a HOT topic for them),she sounds like the pedo's defence lawyer,no offense

Larry King: If it was a pedophile, was your daughter sexually abused?

Patsy Ramsey: I don't believe there is conclusive evidence of that.

John Ramsey: We don't know.


Larry King: But you don't know if any sexual activity took place?

John Ramsey: It's not clear to me that there was. We don't know. It's one of those questions you don't want to know the answer to, frankly.



ridiculous....and they are basically denying it after claiming they never even read the autopsy report or death certificate...pffff...

 

[otg]

(snipped)

OTG,
My personal reactions to the R’s decisions aside, you’ve summarized and described so well how far their choices took them. All this JMHO.

OT, but as it relates to choices, I recently saw an interesting movie named "Uncertainty" with Joseph Gordon-Levitt. It begins with a couple on the Brooklyn Bridge about to make an important decision. Instead of making that decision, they decide to toss a coin to decide whether to go from their location on the bridge to Brooklyn, or in the other direction to Manhattan. The film explores how a decision as simple as which direction to go, and where to spend the day, can have such a tremendous impact on their lives.

Overall, not a great movie, but interesting if you consider its premise.

 

[UKGuy]

if it was a pedo or anyone else why so eager to defend him (without even realizing,which means it's a HOT topic for them),she sounds like the pedo's defence lawyer,no offense

Larry King: If it was a pedophile, was your daughter sexually abused?

Patsy Ramsey: I don't believe there is conclusive evidence of that.

John Ramsey: We don't know.


Larry King: But you don't know if any sexual activity took place?

John Ramsey: It's not clear to me that there was. We don't know. It's one of those questions you don't want to know the answer to, frankly.



ridiculous....and they are basically denying it after claiming they never even read the autopsy report or death certificate...pffff...

madeleine,
There you go JR prefers not to know why his daughter was killed, why? Answers on a postcard to his latest wife.

Yes they denying the sexual element to the case, thats why JR does TV interviews, so he can rubbish his opponents and promote the Ramsey version of events, publishers and media outlets do not care about the truth, only if their viewing figures rise!

JR is employing religion and the media to whitewash the masses.

 

[midwest mama]

Why? Big Rapids is 2 hours from East Lansing, where Michigan State University is located, and 2 hours from Charlevoix. Plus, John was out of college by the time Beckner was in school. I don't really see the Michigan connection as being significant?

Probably not, but with all the connections that have been tossed here and there at times in this case, with Lt. Gov's husband being an old frat buddy, and the fact that JR's dad worked for the state government of MI, makes me wonder about this family knowing that family, etc. Where big money becomes involved, in both business and sometimes government - we can wish all we want that it has nothing to do with the justice of how things play out, but that doesn't always make it so.

I, for one, sure want to believe that Chief Beckner has earned every criminal justice credential he has, and also as an Ethics teacher (it's in his bio), he must demonstrate great ability for that position. If I seem disrespectful of Chief Beckner, I stand chastised.

 

[madeleine]

24 TOM HANEY: So you said it wasn't

25 you and it wasn't John. Could it have been

0620

1 Burke?

2 PATSY RAMSEY: No. It wouldn't

3 have been Burke.

4 TOM HANEY: Why couldn't it?

5 PATSY RAMSEY: How do you believe

6 you saw (INAUDIBLE) a ten-year old, nine-year

7 old boy (INAUDIBLE). Plus the fact that he

8 loved his sister.

9 TOM HANEY: It's not unheard of for

10 a nine or ten-year old child?

11 PATSY RAMSEY: My child it is

12 unheard of.

13 TOM HANEY: And why is that? What

14 would make him different from some other nine or

15 ten-year old?

16 PATSY RAMSEY: Because he was not

17 raised in a family of violence. We are a very

18 loving family.

19 TOM HANEY: Could it have been an

20 accident?

21 PATSY RAMSEY: I -- don't know.

22 TOM HANEY: Well you and I don't

23 know because we weren't there?

24 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

25 TOM HANEY: So do you think it

0621

1 could have been, he could have pushed her down

2 the stairs--

3 PATSY RAMSEY: Burke Ramsey did not

4 do this, okay. He did not do this. Get off it.

5 TOM HANEY: How do you know that,

6 though? I mean, have you talked to him about

7 it?

8 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, we are going

9 to find out who did this to JonBenet. He's been

10 in counseling, doctors say that he's handling this

11 the way that a child copes best with the death of

12 a very close family member. I doubt that a nine

13 or ten-year old child could harbor such a thing

14 for a year and a half.

 

[midwest mama]

Patsy responded she 'didn't know' if what happened to JB was an accident.

Interesting - IIRC one of the R atty's - think it was Wood, said the killing was planned and deliberate. JR said atty's (DOI) were hired to prepare a defense for him because initially BPD thought he had written the note and was the killer.

Again, in TOSOS, pg 103, we have this from JR:
"Beth's death was an accident, and I had to accept that accidents do happen in life, but JonBenet was willfully murdered.(Italics printed in book). Her death had been planned and calculated, and was no accident."

His statement was very certain. Chilled me.


While I did not want to read through DOI or TOSOS, I decided it might be the only way I could possibly learn more about the way the R's lived, behaved and thought, which might help me understand a motive for JB's death.

I have formed some strong opinions about their characters, one of which is that JR was driven over an emotional/mental edge with the loss of Beth in 1992. There seems to be an underlying amount of pain associated with every mention of circumstances regarding Beth, but that does not come across when he discusses JB's death. In fact, he manages to convince me that he has relief about believing JB is in heaven - but never states the same acceptance/relief about Beth. He HAD to accept Beth's accident is not the same as saying, "I accepted her death was an accident.''

Something was, and still is, very very wrong with JR, IMHO.

 

[madeleine]

11 He said, "call 911, call the

12 police."

13 I ran upstairs, and I think -- I

14 think -- I -- I can't remember if -- I think

15 asked him to check on Burke, one of us checked

16 on Burke, and I remember just seeing him at the

17 phone, trying to -- and then I looked down and

18 John came down and on the floor, down here

19 (indicating), I came in here, here, and John

20 came down, I went to the telephone here, and he

21 kind of crouched on the floor, he was in his

22 underwear, and read the papers on the floor

23 right there, and you know, I was trying to get

24 this 911 person to -- it just seemed like it

25 took forever, to drag through, you know, crazy

0011

1 by that time.


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I don't get it...she saw who near which phone?

 

[madeleine]

5 TOM HANEY: Okay. What do you do

6 between the time you get down there and the time

7 that he does show up?

8 PATSY RAMSEY: Just kind of

9 standing around in here. You know. I was

10 screaming and crying and --

11 TOM HANEY: Okay, and what -- okay,

12 what were you screaming, what were you saying?

13 PATSY RAMSEY: I said, "oh, my God

14 how did they get in, why don't we hear

15 anything," you know, "where were they, how could

16 this happen?" I mean I was just --

17 TOM HANEY: So you're not reading

18 the note then?

19 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

20 TOM HANEY: You're just wandering

21 around in this area?

22 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.

23 TOM HANEY: And that's the area

24 just--

25 PATSY RAMSEY: Like the --

0046

1 TOM HANEY: -- south of the spiral

2 stairs?

3 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. This, the

4 little bar, sort of like in this little area. I

5 was just like, you know, indicating (INAUDIBLE).

6 TOM HANEY: And where do you see

7 John, when did you see him next? Use red for

8 him?

9 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know

10 how -- I mean the next thing I remember, I

11 was -- he was saying, "call the police, call the

12 police," he had the note and he was kneeling

13 right here.

14 TOM HANEY: Okay, let's stop you

15 again. You're in here and I understand --

16 understandably you're pacing around?

17 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

18 TOM HANEY: And screaming. When

19 and where do you see John?

20 PATSY RAMSEY: In this area

21 (indicating).

22 TOM HANEY: And what is he doing

23 there?

24 PATSY RAMSEY: He said -- you know,

25 I said "there is the note." I think I handed

0047

1 him the note here, somehow in this space he got

2 the note.

3 TOM HANEY: Okay, let's just put an

4 X on this main floor diagram, where you first

5 see John again.

6 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay, right here.

7 TOM HANEY: So you don't know if he

8 went to check on Burke, came down the front

9 stairs and then came down through the kitchen?

10 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

11 TOM HANEY: But he appears there?

12 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

13 TOM HANEY: Take that back just --

14 what discussion do you two have there?

15 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean I was just

16 saying, "how did they get in, how did this

17 happen, who would do this?"

18 You know, screaming, screaming.

19 "What's the note say?"



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so she prefers standing there instead of reading the note....YEAH RIGHT...she wasn't curios at all,she was just standing there oh GMAB

every mother on this planet,in such a situation,would have went TO CHECK AND SEE WITH HER OWN EYES that the other kid is OKAY and alive

when JR came back down (after checking on Burke) she doesn't even ask him if Burke is there,if he's safe?

COME ONNNNNNNN

Good God,nothing makes sense about their version of events!

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Looking at the Leila Fowler case and how it is playing out in the media, it wouldn't surprise at all if the R's covered it up because they knew that a 9-year-old boy killing his 6-year-old sister on Christmas in a huge house would be national news. Also, people seemed to be pretty sympathetic to the Fowler family when the arrest was first announced but I feel like the tide is turning. The media is still very interested in that case, and they seem ready to find out any details they can about the family. They are not just saying "Case closed...Moving on".

Over the years, I have read so many posts pretty much saying if the R's admitted Burke did it, there wouldn't be any media interest but the Fowler case proves otherwise. It's not about whether the case would still be well-known 17 years later, but what would've happened in December 1996/January 1997. If you're an ordinary family, any amount of media coverage is going to seem like a ton of bricks to you.

Anyway, I will never be able to wrap my head around the reason for the CNN interview. People make poor choices regarding the media all the time though. It could be as simple as it wasn't thought out well.