Random Thoughts and Discussion Ideas#5 About the Case

[Brini]

Just wanted to mention a thought... I think LE has their smoking gun... in the form of KC's fingerprints.

1. As we know, the documents released concerning fingerprints mention LA, CA, and GA's prints were not found, but don't mention KC's. That's no mistake, and no oversight.

2. The state is now seeking the death penalty. Something must have happened to change their mind and give them the confidence to move forward with that.

3. KC is not considered the smartest tool in the shed. Annie said she's not smart enough to pull this off by herself. Well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to kill a two year old, but it does take some forethought to apply gloves before you rip duct tape. Forethought KC has never exhibited in the past.

4. She was dumb enough to dump the baby less than 1/2 mile from the house, and apply duct tape and a heart in a manner that's very similar to plenty of the images she has in her photobucket. Another sign that she wouldn't have the forethought to wear gloves.

To paraphrase Judge Strickland, "Forethought and KC are strangers,"

 

[Sundance]

(Snip respect Ripley)


I was going to post all of this but then I though maybe it is available somewhere else? If it is not and someone wants to read it instead of just hearing...(I like to read the words) then I will post the rest. I don't want to take up so much space, I didn't realize how long it was...anywho...point made about neighbors "wrapping" up the case early on-and rest of interview goes on to say that Casey did not want to give birth to Caylee but Cindy forced Casey to have Caylee. That Casey was a "party girl" with "guys lined up from Toledo Ohio" that found Caylee cramped her style, and that Cindy had kicked George out of the house and another man moved in-but that George had (obviously) come back.

<respectfully snipped>

Chiquita71, I for one would absolutely love to have the whole interview that you can read (I am like you, I like to see the words) for my files.

Could you post it please and thank you very much?

Sundance

 

[JBean]

(Snip respect Ripley)


I am not following anyone, you guys just get to where I am going faster than I do. :blowkiss:

Ripley is giving an answer I just found out today, Kio retracted the part of her story re: everything Ripley says in her post I have snipped. I had just found out about the Dickens interview this week and thought it was amazing how accurate they were(thru Kio) re: where Caylee's remains were discovered and then went to find any Kio info(acandyrose) and found "Supplement 314-Incident report (08/08/08) where again all that Ripley relates in her post is documented.

You might want to check here. if it isn't posted, send a link to Patty G and she will hopefully add it to the library.

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72088

 

[CBTampa]

I don't know what it is but there is something about Kio that doesn't sit right with me. I just can't put my finger on, but my hinky meter goes off. Isn't she the one that refused to turn over her phone records? I guess if LE thought that they were important that could get them.

 

[debs]

I don't know what it is but there is something about Kio that doesn't sit right with me. I just can't put my finger on, but my hinky meter goes off. Isn't she the one that refused to turn over her phone records? I guess if LE thought that they were important that could get them.

I only get that she was a friend and was discarded and kept in the periphery. From the periphery she observed and evaluated what she saw. Her evaluation may or may not be accurate, and like most every other person "viewing the accident" adds her own perspective from her vantage point. Not releasing her phone records was probably a kneejerk reaction to thinking she might get in trouble for having suggested that Caylee was alive when she in fact could not have been.

 

[Sassy Frog]

<respectfully snipped>

Chiquita71, I for one would absolutely love to have the whole interview that you can read (I am like you, I like to see the words) for my files.

Could you post it please and thank you very much?

Sundance

I too would like to read the transcript, I can't get the Utube to play on my computer, and I checked and the transcript is not listed on this board either, just the Utube link. TIA

 

[eddeva]

I too would like to read the transcript, I can't get the Utube to play on my computer, and I checked and the transcript is not listed on this board either, just the Utube link. TIA

i can't find this anywhere. is it possible that the poster was kindly typing as she listened on youtube?
i've never seen a transcript w/ LE printed as opposed to the detective's initials and 'kio' is misspelled 'keo'.

 

[Chiquita71]

This interview is with Joyce and Bailey Dickens who are neighbors of the Anthonys.
July22, 2008
(Seven days after Caylee was reported missing)


LE: Present in the room with me is Joyce Dickens and her husband Bailey Dickens and this is in reference to the Caylee Anthony case. Ah, Miss Dickens can you go ahead and tell me if you have any knowledge or what you know(inaudable), what you told me?
JD: I, I, about two, three days ago one of the girls in the neighborhood, her names Keo.
BD: Saturday.
JD: Saturday.
LE: Inaudable
JD: Anyway, she stopped by here and she was askin questions and we just started talking and she told me that uh, she herself had talked to Casey, Casey had called her.
LE: Okay. When you say Casey I'm going to show you this photograph.
JD: Yes
LE: That's Casey Anthony the person you're referencing?
(crosstalk: BD&JD in agreement) Yes.
JD: She said that Casey had called her, ah, I think...
BD: Two weeks.
JD: Almost two weeks ago which would have been about July 9th and she was talkin' to her. She told me that she could hear a baby in the background going "mommy, mommy, look, look, look" and mommy was going "shhh, shhh, I'm on the phone." So she said that um, she um...
BD: Wanted to borrow two hundred...
JD: No, no, no that was another time, another time though earlier she had called Keo, Casey had called Keo and wanted to borrow some money and she was calling from a pay phone. And Keo says tell me where you are, I'll bring it to you and, uh, Casey said, "No, no, I'll call you back and she never called her back until, I guess July the 9th about, you know, talkin' with her again. But she wasn't...
BD: This girl her name is Keo.
(crosstalk)
JD: Keo
BD: Torres. K-E-O T-O-R-R-E-S
JD: Yes
BD: Torres, now her dad lives down the street here Rafael, three houses down on the left, she used to live here, she came by to see her dad and her step-mom, step-sister and then she came down to see us, gave us all a hug, she's told me she's engaged to her boyfriend she said he weighs 400lbs, and ah, and she travels. She works for a, like a travel agency thing for Irish people, ah, she used to work at Universal Studios with her, and Casey worked there together.
(crosstalk)
LE: Right, okay. So, this would have been Saturday...
JD: Yes
LE: Which, this past Saturday so they...
BD: (Interrupting) Saturday evening she came by here because we went to the vigils Sunday night down there...
JD: Yes
BD: ...the prayer thing.
LE: Alright, so Keo comes here and she tells you that on July 9th she was talking to Casey?
JD: Yes
LE: And she could hear a child in the background and Casey was responding to that child?
JD: Yes
LE: Okay. Um, did she tell you anything else?
JD: Well she went on talkin' about how Keo and Casey and Julie, another girl...
BD: (Interrupting) Jessica
JD: Jessica was, ah, best friends, I said if there's any place you know where, maybe, you know,um Casey'd hung out at, please let the cops know and everything.
LE: Okay.
JD: And she told me about, there's a little school right over here, Hidden Oaks...
BD: Elementary school.
JD: Elementary school.
BD: And the road that goes down, if you take our street Hopespring down there, if you turn right you go down and it dead(door opens and person comes into room BD speaks to this person saying: "Baby, ah, we got a police officer here get dressed.") you, you go down, you turn right on Suburban Drive and it dead ends into a fence, the elementary school is called Hidden Oak its on the left, that's where my son went when he was one year ahead of her in school, ah, one year behind her in school, he knew her the whole time. Ah, the, the, there was a bunch of fires purposely set up behind that school a couple of years ago so they built a big fence up all around there, so you can't get back in there anymore. I went down there to check it, the fence is locked, all ya gotta do is just do what, she could drive right down the road and go back to the field. Keo told us she thinks if the babys buried it probably buried back there. I, when she told me that, Keo told me this she was sitting right in that chair, I said to her, you have got to give this information to the detectives, you have to do this. Well, I don't know what to do, I said just a minute. So I called Brian Burner down there, he gave me (Happy's?)num...,detective Wells name and number and, and that was like on Saturday and I'm thinkin' Keo's a young girl, she's like twenty-two, she's scared that was her friend, I don't want to step over her bounds or nothin' but, I don't know if Keo came forward and I know you can't tell me if she did, I'm not askin' you that. I just want to make damn sure you got this information.
LE: Well, i can guarantee you it'll be delivered.
JD: Yeah, yeah but she said they just hung out and talked, you know, though out their middle school and high school...days.
BD: And I said did you smoke pot and drink beer, ya know, she said no we just hung out as friends that's what she, Keo said it and I believe her.
LE: Why, wonder what would lead her to believe that if the baby was buried, eh you know, if it would be buried there, if it was dead?
BD: And her mother, Keo's mother told, has been tellin' Keo for the last week that, the ba-, babys buried around Hidden Oaks elementary school. And they, they...
LE: (Interrupting) Do you have Keo's phone number by chance?
JD: No, I'm shoul...
BD: (Interrupting) We can get it from her father.
LE: Well, well I'll definitely be headin' over there to, soon as I leave here.
JD: Yeah.
LE: You know their address?
BD: Its the pink house on the left.
(crosstalk)
JD: Ah, a few other things she said...
BD: (Interrupting) Its straight out the front door.
JD: ..too is that, Casey really did like to party.
LE: She did or did not?
JD: She did.
BD: She did like to party.
JD: (Inaudible)
BD: She would see her in clubs.
JD: Yeah.
BD: She, she told her, this was very important, she, she tell ya how brilliant this Casey is, she was seven months pregnant before she even knew she was pregnant and she thinks she, its too late for an abortion, she wanted to put the baby up for adoption and her mother, if there was a vote taken on the street she would be the *****from hell on the street if you understand what I am saying, that mother is, is, shes acting all wonderful and nice now, she is evil and she can, very controlling person, control Casey and, ah, Keo said she would be down at the house in the afternoon when the mother came home from work, and if the dad was there, fine George but if the mother came she'd throw everybody out of the house immediately and see Keo said to me she threw me out because I was Puerto Rican. I don't want to get into all that but she said that her mother just didn't like those people. And then she said Casey would date Prerto Rican boys just to upset her mother because that was a love, hate relationship there, the mother is pretty domineering.
JD: And I think she said...
(crosstalk)
LE: This is, this is Keo telling you though?
JD: Yes, oh yes.
BD: Yes (both agree at same time)
LE: Didn't hear any of this directly from Casey?
JD: No, no we have not. But another thing she said about Casey was, Casey apparently told Keo that her mother had been in a psycho ward for a week. I don't know if that's true or not, 'cause we're finding out , ya know, she's such a liar, we don't know if that's true.
BD: About three, three to four years ago, right after that baby was born, the mother threw the husband out the house, she had a boyfriend they were gonna get a divorce and then about six, eight months later George showed back up at the house, she brought him back in. She's the one that makes all the money, he can't keep a job, she is very domineering, a compete control freak...
LE: (Interrupting) This is Casey's mom?
BD: Casey's mom.
JD: Yeah.
BD: And she, neighbor, Brian's wife that live right beside her, she said I've lived here three years and she hasn't said seven words to me. Tha, that mother, I am tellin' ya, she is very controlling and she's evil but...what Keo said, ah, she Keo also said that she didn't, she did want to get rid of the baby but the mother wouldn't let her. The mother made her keep the baby and have the baby. And, and, I think the baby was cramping that girls style. As far as working, and, and money, I don't know of anything she ever did.
LE: Where does, where did Keo say she lived now?
JD: She lives here in Orlando but she travels a lot.
BD: She flies all over the country and stuff, Keos like twenty-two, Keo Torres, is that correct?(someone in background saying: "Torres, yes.") But Keo is, i would believe anything she says she's credible, we have known her since she was a little girl.
LE: Okay well I'll definitely go down there, if you wouldn't mind(inaudible) I'd appreciate that, now, let me ask you this, take you back, um, all of this was relayed to you on Saturday by Keo.
JD: Keo, herself.
BD: Yes
LE: And, so, you said prior to this call between Keo and Casey that, which she believes was on July9th.
JD: Right
LE: That she called, Casey called Keo prior to that, sometime we don't know when...
JD: Right
LE: And asked for two hundred dollars?
BD: Two hundred dollars, and then she called from a pay phone at that time...
JD: Yup, yup
BD: And she said well where are you, I'll give you the money, she said well I'll call you back and she never called back. I think that's because she got that seven hundred from that other girl, you know that was in the news.
LE: Yeah(affirmative). Alright, um you said something about when she was pregnant, supposedly Keo also told you she wanted to give the baby up for adoption?
JD: She did and Keo was kind of leaning toward adopting the baby but the mother world not let it happen.
LE: Which mother? Keo's Mother?
JD&BD: (together) No, no, no...
JD: Cindy
BD: Cindy
JD: Casey's mother, (inaudible)
BD: She made her have that baby.
JD: Yeah(affirmative)
BD: And, and they ruined that baby. Whenever they were having a garage sale down there, they probably have two thousand dollars worth of old baby clothes for sale down there, they spoil that baby, out of this world...
JD: They love that baby, I mean George and Cindy love that baby.
BD: Oh yeah, they would push the, the baby up and down the street in the stroller and never saw the mother do it even one time.
JD: They definitely, you know Keo said she's definitely a party girl. She wanted to be out clubbing and doing things, um...
BD: (Interrupting) The string of boyfriends that come by here could line up from Toledo Ohio and back...
JD: (Interrupting) Um, huh(affirmative)
BD: ...she had um, let me tell ya'.
LE: Okay. Can you both do me a favor? Can you both raise your right hand...can you swear and affirm what you told me today is true to the best of your knowledge?
JD: Yes
BD: Yes
LE: We're gonna go ahead and end this interview at (time).

 

[eddeva]

This interview is with Joyce and Bailey Dickens who are neighbors of the Anthonys.
July22, 2008
(Seven days after Caylee was reported missing)

*resp. snipped.
that's brilliant chiquita, and if you typed it then it's amazing!

 

[trixi491]

I don't know what it is but there is something about Kio that doesn't sit right with me. I just can't put my finger on, but my hinky meter goes off. Isn't she the one that refused to turn over her phone records? I guess if LE thought that they were important that could get them.

Nope that was Amy. The only thing I find strange about Kio is that she said she had a conversation with KC and she asked for $200 and then went back and said she messed up and it was another Casey. How do you mix up something like that?

 

[christee]

Sorry for throwing this totally random thought into the current topic but:

I was posting a pic (on a different forum) from my album and I got sidetracked when the pic of the A's swimming pool distracted me (I'm easily distracted, lol). This reminded me of previous posts abt CA stating she made sure she moved the pool ladder away from the pool (June 15?). But looking at the pool pic, I noticed the storage chest sitting right against the pool. Woulda been easy for Caylee to climb on it to get to the top of the pool.

 

[The World According]

Are there any Federal laws that allow a parent to drop a child off to a local hospital, police or fire department if they feel they are in danger of hurting the child or just don't want the child, or are they only in certain states? There are so many families that would happily adopt these babies, when I first heard of the no questions asked/no charges pressed idea regarding letting the parent willingly surrender the baby I thought it was brilliant! Do any of you know about this and what we can do to bring awareness about it? Back to the lawyers, I would love to know what Mark surmised and why. Do any of you think he made any anonymous reports to police about the Anthonys or PI knowing something? God bless him and Tim Miller, all day long! I usually donate to the red cross, but from now on whatever money I donate I am sending to Texas Equisearch, they are Angels. You could search high and you could search low and Tim is one of the very true heroes in this. He and the four thousand volunteers that came from all over the nation on their own dime to search for the baby while the Anthonys were abusive towards Tim for looking for a body. It was then, and them blaming Jesse that I changed my heart and stopped trying to rationalize their denial and delusions. God forgive me I then found their behavior evil.Even Cindy's own family told the police that Cindy was covering up for Casey, not in those words but that is the inference I drew from listening to Rick talk to the FBI and Yuri.

 

[The World According]

Nope that was Amy. The only thing I find strange about Kio is that she said she had a conversation with KC and she asked for $200 and then went back and said she messed up and it was another Casey. How do you mix up something like that?

Anyone hanging around Casey, in my humble opinion, would not have been on a much different level than she generally, (mentally, maturity level , etc., not character wise). A member of the local future leadership council
she was not.

 

[The World According]

I don't know what it is but there is something about Kio that doesn't sit right with me. I just can't put my finger on, but my hinky meter goes off. Isn't she the one that refused to turn over her phone records? I guess if LE thought that they were important that could get them.

Which was it? Which tabloid? I remember seeing a short video of her interview with the tabloid staff where she was detailing that they used to go down in those woods to their spot for hours and hang out, and bury their little hamsters that died, etc. I have a lot of friends, and a few with the same first names but I do not believe one gets it mixed up which friend called begging a favor to borrow money. I did notice that Brad admitted that Dominick was there at the woods based on several tips by Kio, so she was being believed.

 

[natsound]

This interview is with Joyce and Bailey Dickens who are neighbors of the Anthonys.
July22, 2008
(Seven days after Caylee was reported missing)


LE: Present in the room with me is Joyce Dickens and her husband Bailey Dickens and this is in reference to the Caylee Anthony case. Ah, Miss Dickens can you go ahead and tell me if you have any knowledge or what you know(inaudable), what you told me?
JD: I, I, about two, three days ago one of the girls in the neighborhood, her names Keo.
BD: Saturday.
JD: Saturday.
LE: Inaudable
JD: Anyway, she stopped by here and she was askin questions and we just started talking and she told me that uh, she herself had talked to Casey, Casey had called her.
LE: Okay. When you say Casey I'm going to show you this photograph.
JD: Yes
LE: That's Casey Anthony the person you're referencing?
(crosstalk: BD&JD in agreement) Yes.
JD: She said that Casey had called her, ah, I think...
BD: Two weeks.
JD: Almost two weeks ago which would have been about July 9th and she was talkin' to her. She told me that she could hear a baby in the background going "mommy, mommy, look, look, look" and mommy was going "shhh, shhh, I'm on the phone." So she said that um, she um...
BD: Wanted to borrow two hundred...
JD: No, no, no that was another time, another time though earlier she had called Keo, Casey had called Keo and wanted to borrow some money and she was calling from a pay phone. And Keo says tell me where you are, I'll bring it to you and, uh, Casey said, "No, no, I'll call you back and she never called her back until, I guess July the 9th about, you know, talkin' with her again. But she wasn't...
BD: This girl her name is Keo.
(crosstalk)
JD: Keo
BD: Torres. K-E-O T-O-R-R-E-S
JD: Yes
BD: Torres, now her dad lives down the street here Rafael, three houses down on the left, she used to live here, she came by to see her dad and her step-mom, step-sister and then she came down to see us, gave us all a hug, she's told me she's engaged to her boyfriend she said he weighs 400lbs, and ah, and she travels. She works for a, like a travel agency thing for Irish people, ah, she used to work at Universal Studios with her, and Casey worked there together.
(crosstalk)
LE: Right, okay. So, this would have been Saturday...
JD: Yes
LE: Which, this past Saturday so they...
BD: (Interrupting) Saturday evening she came by here because we went to the vigils Sunday night down there...
JD: Yes
BD: ...the prayer thing.
LE: Alright, so Keo comes here and she tells you that on July 9th she was talking to Casey?
JD: Yes
LE: And she could hear a child in the background and Casey was responding to that child?
JD: Yes
LE: Okay. Um, did she tell you anything else?
JD: Well she went on talkin' about how Keo and Casey and Julie, another girl...
BD: (Interrupting) Jessica
JD: Jessica was, ah, best friends, I said if there's any place you know where, maybe, you know,um Casey'd hung out at, please let the cops know and everything.
LE: Okay.
JD: And she told me about, there's a little school right over here, Hidden Oaks...
BD: Elementary school.
JD: Elementary school.
BD: And the road that goes down, if you take our street Hopespring down there, if you turn right you go down and it dead(door opens and person comes into room BD speaks to this person saying: "Baby, ah, we got a police officer here get dressed.") you, you go down, you turn right on Suburban Drive and it dead ends into a fence, the elementary school is called Hidden Oak its on the left, that's where my son went when he was one year ahead of her in school, ah, one year behind her in school, he knew her the whole time. Ah, the, the, there was a bunch of fires purposely set up behind that school a couple of years ago so they built a big fence up all around there, so you can't get back in there anymore. I went down there to check it, the fence is locked, all ya gotta do is just do what, she could drive right down the road and go back to the field. Keo told us she thinks if the babys buried it probably buried back there. I, when she told me that, Keo told me this she was sitting right in that chair, I said to her, you have got to give this information to the detectives, you have to do this. Well, I don't know what to do, I said just a minute. So I called Brian Burner down there, he gave me (Happy's?)num...,detective Wells name and number and, and that was like on Saturday and I'm thinkin' Keo's a young girl, she's like twenty-two, she's scared that was her friend, I don't want to step over her bounds or nothin' but, I don't know if Keo came forward and I know you can't tell me if she did, I'm not askin' you that. I just want to make damn sure you got this information.
LE: Well, i can guarantee you it'll be delivered.
JD: Yeah, yeah but she said they just hung out and talked, you know, though out their middle school and high school...days.
BD: And I said did you smoke pot and drink beer, ya know, she said no we just hung out as friends that's what she, Keo said it and I believe her.
LE: Why, wonder what would lead her to believe that if the baby was buried, eh you know, if it would be buried there, if it was dead?
BD: And her mother, Keo's mother told, has been tellin' Keo for the last week that, the ba-, babys buried around Hidden Oaks elementary school. And they, they...
LE: (Interrupting) Do you have Keo's phone number by chance?
JD: No, I'm shoul...
BD: (Interrupting) We can get it from her father.
LE: Well, well I'll definitely be headin' over there to, soon as I leave here.
JD: Yeah.
LE: You know their address?
BD: Its the pink house on the left.
(crosstalk)
JD: Ah, a few other things she said...
BD: (Interrupting) Its straight out the front door.
JD: ..too is that, Casey really did like to party.
LE: She did or did not?
JD: She did.
BD: She did like to party.
JD: (Inaudible)
BD: She would see her in clubs.
JD: Yeah.

snipped

I just want to point out... the Casey with the child in the background that wanted to borrow the money was a different Casey. That was brought out shortly after this interview was conducted.

 

[The World According]

I don't know what it is but there is something about Kio that doesn't sit right with me. I just can't put my finger on, but my hinky meter goes off. Isn't she the one that refused to turn over her phone records? I guess if LE thought that they were important that could get them.

I have thought that Annie and Casey were girlfriends, and in some of her photos from Radar online she is in explicit sexual poses with girls, I wonder if Kio ever mentioned to police that Casey was bi. Casey seemed to show different sides to different people so who knows if there is a girl that may have helped her, (opposed to one of her many guys she called on).

 

[The World According]

Here's a random thought I've had from time to time. Who will be Caylee's family advocate, so to speak, during the trial if GA, CA and LA continue to believe Casey's lies and won't want her to be convicted? Most murder trials seem to have grieving family members sitting there everyday, hoping for justice. And juries seem conscientious of the family members during the trial, which probably helps personalize the victim.

Neither side of the Anthony family seems to have been close to Caylee, and Casey didn't seem to have steady friends with children whom Caylee was close to. I hope someone will be there to sit in court everyday caring about justice for her.

Jesse and his parents;
Rick and his wife,
Shirley, God willing if she is well!
Tim Miller and his wife will be there for Caylee, so will
Leonard, Rob and Tracey,
Mark Nejame,
Tony Lazaro and all of Casey's former friends

and by the time thus goes to trial in two years, out of denial and having faced the inevitable , Lee and Malory

 

[The World According]

Wow. I hadn't thought of that. I wonder GA still thinks KC should be involved in missing kids?

For all the John Walsh, Tim Millers, Mark Klass, Nancy Graces out there that are crime/murder victims that turn their tragedy in to a life mission of seeking justice, the Anthonys covering up/enabling Casey and taking up with sleazy characters like Kid Finders must be beyond disgusting. The Anthonys cannot be of any counsel or inspiration to hurting families, in fact I think they are finding out they are not looked upon as victims but co conspirators, who obstructed and impeded the police investigation. They were sent away from the Hailey Cummings search and uninvited to speak a recent conference because people found them so wholly offensive! Once she is out of protective custody, Casey is going to get the street/prision justice that is reserved for people who hurt and murder children. When George was being honest early on with the FBI/police he admitted he knew this was what her fate had in store for her in prison. He knows she can never advocate for missing kids, even if she gets found not guilty, she will be like OJ, everyone always believing she got away with murder, never seeing her as innocent. Only Cindy is that delusional. George knows.

 

[The World According]

Why didn't Lee ask if you are going to name and describe Zanni, and her vehicle... how does this make her less likely to hurt anyone than changing the location?
Caylee's little Dora the Explorer cartoon would be more sophisticated, right?

 

[MissJames]

snipped

I just want to point out... the Casey with the child in the background that wanted to borrow the money was a different Casey. That was brought out shortly after this interview was conducted.

I think there was a big red flag about that,almost like Keo was covering for KC.Keo was asked for her phone records [I assume so LE could verify her switch] and she refused to release them.
Have you seen anything that shows LE verified it was a different Casey? There are so many docs out there now I may have missed it.