Raven's Mission

[guera]

OK... I've been mulling this over in my head, but am I the only one who thought Raven did serve a mission? It was my understanding that he served and then came home for some reason, but now people are saying he didn't go at all? Did people close to Janet and/or Raven know that he didn't serve a mission? Or is this a lie that has now surfaced? :waitasec:

 

[Jenifred]

OK... I've been mulling this over in my head, but am I the only one who thought Raven did serve a mission? It was my understanding that he served and then came home for some reason, but now people are saying he didn't go at all? Did people close to Janet and/or Raven know that he didn't serve a mission? Or is this a lie that has now surfaced? :waitasec:

He received a mission call (somewhere in South America, I think), but never even made it to the MTC (Missionary Training Center--where missionaries stay for 2 weeks to 2 months depending on what language they need to teach in).

So, he got a mission call, but never served one day of it.

 

[juliagoulia]

Jenifred is right--he never served at ALL.

 

[terminatrixator]

OK... I've been mulling this over in my head, but am I the only one who thought Raven did serve a mission? It was my understanding that he served and then came home for some reason, but now people are saying he didn't go at all? Did people close to Janet and/or Raven know that he didn't serve a mission? Or is this a lie that has now surfaced? :waitasec:

However, he did, in fact, tell SEVERAL people, he served a mission. That is another one of Raven's multiple lies. Misdemeanor, Felony, Warm, Cold, Hurt, Shot, he went on a mission, look at his resume, oh and yeah, he didn't kill Janet or his unborn child, and he didn't know Janet was pregnant, oh what else.....I could go on and on about it.

He cannot tell the truth, to save his soul.

Ummm Janet committed suicide, he told someone, Janet died he told another, anyone else care to add to this list?

 

[NCBanker]

You may be thinking of Mark Hacking who served a mission, but got sent home early for indiscretions involving women.

OK... I've been mulling this over in my head, but am I the only one who thought Raven did serve a mission? It was my understanding that he served and then came home for some reason, but now people are saying he didn't go at all? Did people close to Janet and/or Raven know that he didn't serve a mission? Or is this a lie that has now surfaced? :waitasec:

 

[terminatrixator]

You may be thinking of Mark Hacking who served a mission, but got sent home early for indiscretions involving women.

True, or maybe Guera heard that Raven did server a mission, because Raven actually TOLD people that he served a mission.

 

[guera]

Yeah... I heard that Raven had told people he had served a mission, but not a whole one, thus my confusion. This may not matter, but do we know if those close to Raven or Janet (family & friends) knew he hadn't gone? I'm just curious how far this lie went... although I guess uncovering another lie of his isn't that big of a deal.

 

[juliagoulia]

His family knew. They would have to know he didn't serve, because they would have been paying for it. Of course, his family is not known for their honesty either. They could be perpetuating the lie that he did serve part of a mission.

I don't have inside information about this, but I believe Janet knew as well. They were dating at the time.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Yeah... I heard that Raven had told people he had served a mission, but not a whole one, thus my confusion. This may not matter, but do we know if those close to Raven or Janet (family & friends) knew he hadn't gone? I'm just curious how far this lie went... although I guess uncovering another lie of his isn't that big of a deal.

I wonder how he would have been able to lie about being on a mission even if only for a couple of months. Wouldn't people have noticed that he was never gone from home? And if he was gone from home, then where was he?

 

[terminatrixator]

Well, The Raven lies, period.

He could have told people that would have no way of knowing one way or the other, in little stories about his life, like acquaintances and such that he did indeed serve a mission.

I have heard from people that he did state to them that he served a mission and we know that many things that come out of his mouth are lies. I bet he doesn't even remember who he told what to, eventually in his criminalistic mind they probably become truths.

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

Raven told me that he served a mission, but had to come home early. The conversation was so long ago, but I think that he said he had to come home for medical reasons. Perhaps I am just rude and nosy, but I asked if he was better and what he was sent home for and got no answer. At the time I dismissed it as none of my business. Now I know better.

 

[terminatrixator]

Medical reasons........he was too lazy and couldn't be tied down, he couldn't handle the pressure. Thanks again for your post & information Rainbow


Feel the pressure Raven, psychosamatic, addict, insane!

But not legally insane Raven, don't even try that excuse, what you did was Premeditated, Cold, Calculating, and you knew what you were doing, you planned it, every step of the Way........

Can you feel the pressure Raven, I hope it's eating you alive, but I'm sure if I looked into your eyes, there would be no real pain, no real sorrow, your eyes are dead Raven, your feelings are Dead, you are, in every sense of the word a sociopath, whatever terminology you prefer, you are the very definition a Psychopath!

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What is a Psychopath?
[/font]
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret. Their bewildered victims desperately ask, 'Who are these people?'"[/font]
​

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We often think of psychopaths as the disturbed criminals who capture headlines and crowd the nation's prisons. But not all psychopaths are killers. They are more likely to be men and women you know who move through life with supreme self-confidence -- but without a conscience.[/font]
​

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"What makes them the way they are? How can we protect ourselves?"[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]--[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Robert D Hare, "Without Conscience"[/font][/font][/font]
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[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of Psychopaths Among Us
[/font][/font][/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Robert Hare, in his 1993 book says: "Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets." [/font]
​

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"Completely lacking in conscience and feelings for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret." [/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"He will choose you, disarm you with his words, and control you with this presence. He will delight you with his wit and his plans. He will show you a good time, but you will always get the bill. He will smile and deceive you, and he will scare you with his eyes. And when he is through with you, and he will be through with you, he will desert you and take with him your innocence and your pride. You will be left much sadder but not a lot wiser, and for a long time you will wonder what happened and what you did wrong. And if another of his kind comes knocking at your door, will you open it?" [/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/font][/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]http://www.hare.org/index.html [/font]

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Can you feel the pressure Raven, I hope it's eating you alive...

No, because as is probably usual he hasn't been held accountable for his actions. As is probably standard, he has someone like Mommy to pick up his pieces. Raven thinks that he's smarter than everyone else, he believes that he's gotten away with this, and he probably hasn't spent one moment worrying that this will ever catch up with him. If Raven is indeed a psychopath, we'd better hope that he's eligible for the death penalty because he'll never be able to be "cured" and he'll never see the poison that he is.

"Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets... Completely lacking in conscience and feelings for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret."

 

[reportergirl]

ew,


Sorry it's been awhile since my last post. I'm sure the bishop in Utah knows everything surrounding the charges against Raven. As far as an affair, the bishop may speculate, but Raven would have to confess to the bishop for them to excommunicate him unless there is firm evidence. I personally am not completely convinced Raven had an actual sexual affair, based on my knowlege of their relationship from what his family has told me. I am also not convinced of his guilt concerning Janet's murder, however I do realize there are some seriously suspicious circumstances.

I feel it is easy for some of you fellow websleuthers to convict him on the web based on information released to the media. But, I know him personally, and I know his family. I do not speak for them, but I do know him as a kind hearted person who has obviously made some mistakes, which he appears to be paying for. He admitted to the current charges against him and he is paying for them. As far as any connection to the murder, as this point there have been no charges filed, therefore, he is presumed innocent in my book.

I wouldn't think the church would excommunicate him on the embezzelment charges alone. But an affair is certainly grounds for excommunication, if he has confessed to that.

Jenifred-- you 're still speculating whether Raven went on a mission, and I will again post, since I know firsthand, from what I remember, he recieved a call to I believe Peru. He didn't end up going. I think he met Janet around that same time. As far as the reason he did not go, I can not say for sure. But, both of his brothers did go on successful missions.

Let me know if there's anything else I can clear up.

 

[Moxie]

ew,


Sorry it's been awhile since my last post. I'm sure the bishop in Utah knows everything surrounding the charges against Raven. As far as an affair, the bishop may speculate, but Raven would have to confess to the bishop for them to excommunicate him unless there is firm evidence. I personally am not completely convinced Raven had an actual sexual affair, based on my knowlege of their relationship from what his family has told me. I am also not convinced of his guilt concerning Janet's murder, however I do realize there are some seriously suspicious circumstances.

I feel it is easy for some of you fellow websleuthers to convict him on the web based on information released to the media. But, I know him personally, and I know his family. I do not speak for them, but I do know him as a kind hearted person who has obviously made some mistakes, which he appears to be paying for. He admitted to the current charges against him and he is paying for them. As far as any connection to the murder, as this point there have been no charges filed, therefore, he is presumed innocent in my book.

I wouldn't think the church would excommunicate him on the embezzelment charges alone. But an affair is certainly grounds for excommunication, if he has confessed to that.

Jenifred-- you 're still speculating whether Raven went on a mission, and I will again post, since I know firsthand, from what I remember, he recieved a call to I believe Peru. He didn't end up going. I think he met Janet around that same time. As far as the reason he did not go, I can not say for sure. But, both of his brothers did go on successful missions.

Let me know if there's anything else I can clear up.

reportergirl,

Even though I have a very different view of Raven, I appreciate you coming here and posting.

I do know for a fact that he did have sexual affairs while he was married to Janet. So he did commit adultery. I sincerely doubt that he will confess the honest truth to his bishop.

Only speaking for myself, I feel very confident in my statements about Raven. Based on what I have seen from him, I believe he has very distinct sides, facets really, that he displays to people. I believe very strongly that he is not a good person and that he is capable of not just adultery and embezzlement, but also murder. I believe these things because of factual information gleaned primarily from my exposure to Raven.

I do respect your opinion and I want you to know you are very welcome here. It is actually refreshing to have someone provide a differing opinion regarding Raven.

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

I was only an associate of Raven through Janet and am conviced on his guilt. I liked Raven, so my initial reaction was disbelief, but now you couldn't convince me that Raven is innocent. However, I do know another one of Raven's friends who is also convinced that Raven is innocent with regard to the murder. This friend however, recognizes that Raven cheated on his wife, embezzled, constantly lied about everything, etc. but does not believe that Raven has it in him to commit murder.

On another note, I have heard through a reliable grapevine that the affair(s) were indeed sexual.

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

Reportergirl,

You mentioned in an old post that you grew up with Raven. Most of us didn't know him/ know of him etc until after he was out of high school. Could you tell us all more about him? What was he like when you knew him. Was he the good looking, outgoing guy with all of the friends, was he the guy with the really cool toys that he loved to let people use, was he the perfect gentleman that would buy a highschool sweetheart a rose and take her to icecream, or was he the guy that would do anything for attention?

When I met him, I really liked him. His personality is very likable. He was easy to talk to and friendly with anyone that wanted to talk. Looking back at the things he said to me, i wonder if he simply says whatever will make you happy. I really think that there is/was a good side to Raven, but that he got so tied up in his lies, his "mistakes", etc. that he finally just snapped. Now that many of the pressures are off (he has family to raise Kaiden, and doesn't have to hear his wonderful wife ask about money or girls) I am wondering if he is acting a lot like he used to.

Any insights or thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[reportergirl]

Well, replying to all of you at once


I have known Raven since he was about 13 or 14. He's always been very good-looking, charismatic, etc., but I also saw the sincere side of him. Yes, he does like attention, and has a very stong desire to please everyone. He was popular, very involved in soccer, and very outgoing. The girls loved him, and the boys wanted to be his friend. I do think he felt a lot of pressure growing up to be successful, etc. I think he fears failure.

I have however seen some great acts of kindness on his part when no one was watching. I remember a time when he drove me home from school to where I found a horrible situation waiting for me with my mother, who without going into too much detail, needed immediate medical attention. Raven sat with me and waited for the ambulance to come, made sure I was alright, got me anything I needed, and then drove me back to school for a team practice. My father also had a lot of close contact with him as part of church callings (as a advisor) and he holds him in a very high esteem.

As far as toys go, no, no toys. His family didn't have a ton of money running around with several kids on both sides of a combined family (Jim and Karyn's from former marriages). I do think he saved up and bought a bullet bike while he was in high school-- what I got a ride home on.

I cannot say I have had a lot of contact with him since he moved away, but I would get periodic updates on everyone in the family from family members.

I have had a bit of a hard time reading some of the comments about his family. As a result, I have been a bit of a silent member here. I think very highly of them and think some posters here have been pretty harsh. It must be a horrible thing to have your lives torn apart by people whom you've never met because of something a member of your family is connected to. I however see the need for this in a way as a member of the media. I do ask that people have a bit more compassion toward his family's situation.

They have problems, very true. But when it comes down to it, everyone has skeletons in the closet. EVERYONE. I know his family, despite any problems they may have, to be a very good one. His parents, Jim (stepfather) and Karyn are good people who have done the best they can. And Karyn is very much a mother who protects her children. I cannot say I have agreed with everything they have done, but I love their family for who they are.

 

[reportergirl]

I forgot to comment about the affair. I think he would have come clean with his bishop about any affair when everything came crashing down with the embezzlement charges. I think he would have wanted a fresh start, which excommunication would provide. After excommunication, if you desire, you start a repentance process and can then get rebaptized, giving you a clean slate. I do not know what his current status is, the wards in that neighborhood changed boundaries within the last few years and my family is no longer in the same ward. But, I do believe his family would encourage him to take the necessary steps to move toward repentance.

 

[BirdHunter]

I forgot to comment about the affair. I think he would have come clean with his bishop about any affair when everything came crashing down with the embezzlement charges. I think he would have wanted a fresh start, which excommunication would provide. After excommunication, if you desire, you start a repentance process and can then get rebaptized, giving you a clean slate. I do not know what his current status is, the wards in that neighborhood changed boundaries within the last few years and my family is no longer in the same ward. But, I do believe his family would encourage him to take the necessary steps to move toward repentance.

Sweetie, in a perfect world this may be true, but I can tell you Raven had plently of opportunity to confess to several bishops about the THREE affairs, all of them SEXUAL, that I personally know of. One of the bishops in North Carolina for Janet and Raven, knew about one affair, because Janet told him. But since Raven would not come in for a talk and then very quickly moved out of that church nothing was done. I did not know the Raven you describe. The Raven I know cheated on his wife, stole money from people who trusted him and is the only person I know who can look you in the eye and lie like the devil himself.