Rebecca Zahau Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #3

[Lezah]

The Lead Detective had knowledge that the message would be deleted of carrier's server in 30 days.
The Lead Detective also knew the technique they were using to retrieve the message was not working.
The Lead Detective CHOSE to not contact the carrier to retrieve the message when their attempts failed and they knew time was of the essence.
The phone was never fingerprinted to see if anyone else (Like AS) touched her phone and could have listened to the voicemail.
The phone was NOT properly processed!

To my recollection this is a perfect representation of the evidence presented in the court regarding RZ cellphone.

 

[Jessica2012]

Respectfully, Please provide links to back up what you have stated as facts, otherwise you are violating websleuths TOS, as I understand them.

I’m very sorry! I normally do try to include a link if it is someone not everyone may know. I just *assumed* every one saw Jonah Shacknai’s testimony this week.. Here is the link:

The lawyer asked Jonah to describe that conversation and Jonah said that the doctor had been "unusually" and "inappropriately" direct with them. He said the doctor told him that he had been doing his job for 30 years and that Max's injuries were similar to what he would see in a drowning. He said in the best-case scenario, if Max survived, that he would not walk or talk again.

Webb asked if Jonah and Dina were very upset by this news and Jonah described Dina as "hysterical." He said she "sort of yelled" at Dr. Peterson saying he was wrong and it wasn't true.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-jonah-20180322-story.html

 

[MyBelle]

BBM for focus.

Absolutely. I would feel the exact same way.

Nonetheless, those feelings wouldn't prompt me to commit suicide within a few hours in a particularly self-debasing way, particularly, ESPECIALLY if I knew I did nothing wrong.

Those feelings would certainly help me understand why and how someone--who was already emotionally fragile because of a history of sexual abuse and failed relationships--could become suicidal.

 

[Lezah]

Re the DNA on the rope...

RZs DNA was on the rope (as specified previously ) in the high ‘touch probability’ areas, such as the knot areas. However, it was established at trial that when the rope was removed from RZ naked body at the autopsy it was coiled together, placed in a sealed paper bag, stored for a time and transported to the lab for DNA testing.

The DNA expert for the police testified that whilst in the bag the ropes would be rubbing, and jostling together against each other and therefore DNA transfer would be possible and in fact probable.

There was no way to ascertain if the DNA was touch DNA from her hands,or transfer DNA from where it was bound around her body transferred to other areas of the rope.

Also the rope was only tested in particular areas, such as the knots, the majority of the surface area of the rope was not tested for DNA.

 

[Lezah]

Question for you experts!

When the lead detective testified, my notes appear to say the photographer was one of the first to arrive at the scene and took “hundreds of photos”

From my notes i estimate this was around 9.30 to 10am...can any of you chaps recall any details of this in any other threads?

I will explain my train of thought once I cross check times...

 

[Jessica2012]

You understand that when deciding this case the jury will be looking at the evidence presented during trial, not SDSOs answers on their FAQ page, right?

Yes, I certainly do. They will be weighing the testimony of the crime lab DNA Forensic expert, Shelley Webster, who did the testing and found those results listed on the FAQ page. She testified on March 21st and 22nd for the defense.

 

[prpladi]

Caitlin mentions that there will be no split. The judge's instructions for the jury in this case are all or nothing. If I was on the jury, I would find As to be held accountable. Too many inconsistencies within the Defense's case IMO. This is the reason the Judge gave these instructions, this case is a slam dunk for the Plaintiff, IMO

http://www.kusi.com/rebecca-zahau-tr...aitlin-rother/

The article above is worth a read IMO I am being told to post this.

Does anyone remember Tuba?

I remember Tuba from the Casey Anthony or The Scott Peterson trials...just a very intuitive vibe Tuba sent me this past week
my username is my deceased Mother FYI I get feedback sometimes why I pop in and out here

 

[Jessica2012]

Do you have a link to back this up?

The search warrants are in the documents thread, which show what phones were searched. There should also be a phone key there to show you what number belongs to who.

 

[Elisaa444]

Jonah testified that when the doctor told her Max would never walk or talk again, she began “hysterical”. So did Rebecca, but unfortunately, she took her life during her mental breakdown. If she had onlty reached out to someone, we would not be here discussing this today.

Respectfully, Please provide links to back up what you have stated as facts, otherwise you are violating websleuths TOS, as I understand them.

I’m very sorry! I normally do try to include a link if it is someone not everyone may know. I just *assumed* every one saw Jonah Shacknai’s testimony this week.. Here is the link:



http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-jonah-20180322-story.html

BBM
Not to speak for Peaceful, but when they replied asking for a link to your post, I believe it was in reference to this particular comment you made: "So did Rebecca, but unfortunately, she took her life during her mental breakdown."

I read through the link you provided. Yes, your link does state what most of us here know already and that is:
Jonah testified that when the doctor told her (her meaning Dina) would never walk or talk again, she became "hysterical."

Nowhere in your link does it state that Rebecca also became hysterical as you state in your post with the ...."So did Rebecca...." In fact, your link states:
"He (Jonah) left a voicemail for Zahau with the news, but said she never called him back."

I agree with your first sentence of your post, as far as, what Jonah testified to regarding Dina's reaction to the doctor's prognosis of Max. However, your second sentence starts with "So did Rebecca" to me you're implying that she too was hysterical after hearing the news of Max like when Dina heard the same news.

Jonah could not have known if Rebecca was, in fact, hysterical like Dina because he never spoke to her. Rebecca being "hysterical" like Dina was might be your Opinion and if it is I respect it; however, as it is written it looks like it is being stated as fact especially combined with an actual fact.

It is easier when people back up facts with links and simply add an 'in my opinion' to the post so posters (especially new ones to a case) can differentiate between the two.

IMO/MOO/Etc.

 

[Jessica2012]

I remember hearing that Dina became hysterical.
Understandable as this was her only child. I can't even imagine.

I do not however recall hearing that Rebecca became hysterical. In fact the only description I recall is that she was in shock.
I was under the impression that she kept busy, kept in touch with family members and taxiing people around.

I didn't know anyone knew how she reacted to the alleged voicemail with bad news.
Obviously Jonah left her a voicemail, yes. However we will never know exactly what it said. Or how she reacted to it. Or if she ever heard it at all.

I was trying to say that Rebecca became upset to the breaking point after she heard the message from Jonah, the same information that caused Dina to become hysterical that night in the hospital, that Max would never walk or talk again.

In order for a person to commit suicide the way she did, I believe she was not in her “normal” head. I agree with the suicide expert, Dr. Bergan, who said on the stand, “it was her breaking point”.

That is when I wish she had picked up the phone and called Mary for support instead of taking her life. If she had just reached out to someone after she listened to that message, things may have turned out differently.

IMO.

 

[Peaceful]

I’m very sorry! I normally do try to include a link if it is someone not everyone may know. I just *assumed* every one saw Jonah Shacknai’s testimony this week.. Here is the link:



http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-jonah-20180322-story.html

You said Rebecca was hysterical. That’s the information I would like the link for. Thank you.

Revised to thank Elisaa444 for clarifying my question for me. You got it!

 

[Jessica2012]

You said Rebecca was hysterical. That’s the information I would like the link for. Thank you.

Revised to thank Elisaa444 for clarifying my question for me. You got it!

I tried to explain my earlier phrasing in post #794.

It is my opinion that Rebecca would have been “hysterical”, “out of her head”, “freaking out”, “beside herself”, “overwrought,” “overemotional”, “frenzied”, “manic”, and/or “unhinged” to commit suicide the way she did within two hours of hearing Jonah’s message about Maxie’s prognosis. IMO, she certainly was not in her normal mind frame.

 

[stmarysmead]

Listening to these podcasts gives a much more balanced view of what the jury is hearing. On the “Under the Gavel” podcast, the reporter speaks about by the testimony from RZ Ex husband. He gave much more information about her numerous sexual affairs then I have read here. He said that several times, they had to move away from where they were living when these affairs ended. Actually pick up and move away!!! The repetition of these adulterous behaviors and choosing to flee the situation rather than face it, presents a very different view of RZ’s emotional stability and ability to deal with difficulties.

To have to uproot your life, start over, new jobs, new city, and this happening several times soon due to extra martial affairs , does not fit with the image of the emotionally healthy woman with many coping skills.

Reading this, If I were on the jury, I’d remember how RZ sent her sister home immediátely before investigators could even speak to her about Max’s fall. She writes about insomnia “for the first time in her life...about constantly crying. She knows Max’s fall will be investigated. She knows that DR will never let this go and she will blame her. She knows when it comes to his children, JS always puts them first. She’s may or may not know about his new love interest.

This suicide was her final way of fleeing a hideous emotional mess. That testimony revealed a very fragile woman. The EX was certainly not abusive enough for her to move on and support herself with her job. She didn’t have the emotional stability to just move away on her own. When things got tough, she wanted to flee, get away, couldn’t face the problems.

https://soundcloud.com/user-226008350/episode-5-the-defendant-and-the-defense

 

[stmarysmead]

Her phone records do point to extreme stress. She spoke to her sister 20 times. How could JS otherwise prove content of a voice message that he left RZ? He told LE what he said. We know he had been told Max would never walk or talk again. It is a fact that a detective investigating Max's injuries phoned her 5 times.

I think these calls from the detective were key to this suicide as well. RZ could run away from JS as she had run away from many men before. She could move to a new city, as her EX testified they had done numerous times before. But she could not escape this investigation. She and her sister were the only ones in the house. ( just like Adam) There were lots of unanswered questions about how Max was injured.

She sent her sister home before investigators could talk to her. But suicide was RZ only way out of this mess.

 

[Tortoise]

http://www.kusi.com/rebecca-zahau-tr...aitlin-rother/

The article above is worth a read IMO I am being told to post this.

Does anyone remember Tuba?

I remember Tuba from the Casey Anthony or The Scott Peterson trials...just a very intuitive vibe Tuba sent me this past week
my username is my deceased Mother FYI I get feedback sometimes why I pop in and out here

All IMO. Great that the case is not being split. Plaintiffs have the right person on trial for this and they have wiped the floor with the defense.

 

[*Lash*]

Question for you experts!

When the lead detective testified, my notes appear to say the photographer was one of the first to arrive at the scene and took “hundreds of photos”

From my notes i estimate this was around 9.30 to 10am...can any of you chaps recall any details of this in any other threads?

I will explain my train of thought once I cross check times...

Hi Lezah :wave:

You might find what you’re looking for in Rebecca’s AR. Especially the first pages of the 3 page investigative report. Hope this helps.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/64114521/Reports

 

[*Lash*]

Can you provide a link to this information? I don’t recall ever hearing that before.

Hi Peaceful :wave:

The OP is incorrect. The phone records were requested by lead Det. Tsuida from Rebecca’s case, nothing to do with Max. The search warrants are linked below. It is stated in Det. Tsuida’s probable cause exactly why the phone records were requested and it was NOT related to for Max. Hope this helps.

11-164 - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-164.pdf
11-165 -http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-165.pdf

 

[Brit]

I think these calls from the detective were key to this suicide as well. RZ could run away from JS as she had run away from many men before. She could move to a new city, as her EX testified they had done numerous times before. But she could not escape this investigation. She and her sister were the only ones in the house. ( just like Adam) There were lots of unanswered questions about how Max was injured.

She sent her sister home before investigators could talk to her. But suicide was RZ only way out of this mess.

If RZ was looking to escape. She had the perfect opportunity as she was at the airport numerous times all day and into the evening. Why wouldn’t she just jump on the plane with her sister?

IMO, RZ was in HELP mode. Doing everything she could to make things easier for the family (including DS, as she picked her sister up from the airport) and her boyfriend. IMO, she was putting others needs before her own that day - - Right up until 10:30 that night when she last spoke or texted with Mary.....her plan was to take JS food and clothes to the hospital the next morning. Her actions the entire day were the actions of someone who just wanted to help and relieve any stressful matters from for JS and DS so they can focus only on their son. Yes I am sure she was extremely upset about Max, but her actions for the ENTIRE day show she was in help mode not suicide mode. Why would she want to put yet another horrible tragedy in her boyfriends lap when all she did all day was try to help in whatever ways she could?

I’m sorry, but I just don’t think your theory adds up to what is actually known of what RZ’s actions actually PROVED to be that entire day following Max’s accident.

All my opinion.

 

[*Lash*]

Were the three black gloves found latex gloves? Did they find a source for the gloves (i.e., a box of latex gloves) on the premises?

Hi clearskies1 :wave:

From July, SW 41227 listed a single latex glove (#2) and a pair of black gloves (#21). Later in November at a second SDSO press conference crime lab director Mr. Grubb stated a pair of black gardening gloves were recovered from a table at the scene. I’m unsure of the latex glove, I will look further.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41227.pdf

DAVID GOTFREDSON/CBS8:

Real quick. Was there mixed DNA found anywhere else in terms of the -- I think Ms. Bremner said on the show there was mixed DNA found on gloves, on the bed frame, and on the knife. Is there mixed DNA on those items?

GRUBB:

I'll run this down for you fairly quickly. Overwhelmingly, in 10 of the 11 rope segments -- err -- samples from the rope was Rebecca Zahau’s DNA that was found. In one of those samples there was a fragment of DNA from some other source, absolutely un- interpretable. There was a low level of DNA un-interpretable on the large knife from the bedroom floor. There was a low-level mixture of DNA not interpretable on a doorknob to the balcony. Those are the mixtures that I think she was -- and the black gardening gloves that were recovered from a table at the scene? Again, a low level mixture, un- interpretable.

 

[Harmony 2]

Good morning!

Here are some random musings and information I have come across. Food for thought...

On July 11th there were 10 blocked calls on Rebecca’s phone record.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

___________________________________________________________________

About a month before Rebecca’s death a serial rapist was caught in Oceanside, California. He used a large kitchen knife during the assaults and made victims strip naked. He then bound, gagged, and tied the victim to a chair. He also hog-tied them.

He had been caught so of course could not be responsible but the case would have been in the news. Copycat?

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2012/nov/14/citylights2-three-time-rapist-earns-417-years/
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...ssaults-kidnapping-vista-2011may31-story.html

______________________________________________________________________

The height of the balcony brings up questions regarding the manner of death, the plaintiffs argue. At 3-feet high, the balcony is about half of Zahau's height.

“With her hands tied behind her back and her legs tied, her center of gravity was so low that it would be virtually impossible for her to get herself over that railing on her own,” Greer said.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/lo...ion-Mystery-Shacknai-San-Diego-475433983.html

________________________________________________________________________

http://www.cbs8.com/clip/6410063/mansion-mystery-reenactment-bonus-video

Patricia Lanham, 26, agreed to reenact the Zahau hanging scenario. She is about the same height and 15 pounds heavier than Zahau

.

Using a bed frame railing approximately the same height as the balcony railing – about 38 inches – Lanham was able to reenact the leaning action by kicking her feet up and over.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15928565/news-8-reenacts-the-coronado-mansion-mystery