Related Issues and Food for Thought

[SnooperDuper]

In my opinion there would be lots of reasons to glare at a co-defendant in court, especially if you were the innocent one and the other got you into all that mess.

Why wait two years to start the staring contest, then?

But then again, if I recall correctly, the few articles stating that one glared at the other got the two defendants mixed up so that it was impossible to tell which journalist was correct as to who was who.

One article.

Personally, and maybe it's just the face and head tattoos that are shaping my opinions, but I think that MWJ is either a real gangster or enough of a wannabe that 'ratting' will not be an option. I believe that going to jail in gang culture is looked on with the same pride that going to college or university is for the rest of us. And it's also seen as a type of education necessary to advancing in gang career paths, in my opinion. I can't imagine urging him to talk to LE would be productive, nor can I imagine what MJW would think if he knew that Say10 was breaking the gangster code of silence, as implied above.

All my opinion only.

Or maybe he's just going to do what works out for him.

 

[Kamille]

MWJ seems more like an independent "businessman" (illegal drugs and weapons dealer) and wannabe gansta rapper trying to get into the music business than an actual gang member to me. And I can't see why he wouldn't tell what he knew if it helps him and is more favorable to his "friend" MS with regards to what the dynamics of the relationship was between MS and DM based on what he may have been told.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

MWJ seems more like an independent "businessman" (illegal drugs and weapons dealer) and wannabe gansta rapper trying to get into the music business than an actual gang member to me. And I can't see why he wouldn't tell what he knew if it helps him and is more favorable to his "friend" MS with regards to what the dynamics of the relationship was between MS and DM based on what he may have been told.

MOO

See I see him as highly networked, with all these contacts in the car industry, modelling, rap, strip clubs, adult entertainment in general (drugs).

(DM's interests at least overlap in the area of cars and models like Josie.)

You can't grow coca plants from seed in your garage nor can you buy a kit and build your own AK-47 by mail order. Obviously MWJ has "connections" if he's dealing coke and guns.

IF MWJ and DM shared the same lawyer DP...is MS the "friend" or "good acquaintance"?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Why wait two years to start the staring contest, then?



One article.



Or maybe he's just going to do what works out for him.

When I'm not wrong, the both accused DM/MS hadn't the opportunity before. They were seen on video out of their detention centre. "On the eve of their next court appearance, Dellen Millard and Mark Smich are sitting in jail cells 85 kilometres apart." I don't remember they sat side by side in real but only the last 2 times. When then "glare" or "stare" before?

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...y_they_want_to_tell_their_story_but_cant.html

 

[Deleted member 102539]

A young Mr. Smich was often in trouble, said a former friend who did not want to be named.

“I seen him one day as being in jail or dead,” he said, but he never contemplated such a grievous charge.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...-in-tim-bosma-murder-case-to-plead-not-guilty

That for the question "Who maybe the leader?" - Maybe MS, who knows.

 

[matou]

Personally, I just don't see the surety that DM was into criminal activity. I see that MS and MWJ were, I have seen their criminal records, to me that is proof that they were into criminal activity, if not making their livings from the black market. I see no proof that DM was making money on the black market, he had a job as CEO as far as I know, and even if it was of a company that was liquidating or transitioning, it was still a job that he could be taxed for, making him a contributing member of society in my opinion.

I see no proof that he was 'trending' that way, personally, no matter how some may try to convince me how vile it was that he rescued that dog or that he may have used a shopping cart outside of the confines of a parking lot like a master criminal.

In my opinion, the whole chop shop story was blown up out of this one bike. As I recall it started out that day as hundreds of vehicles, and ended up being way less than 10, before the subject was never heard of again. I think that if there were any evidence that the Harley was actually stolen by DM, MS or even MWJ, we would have seen charges added in relation to it when the second wave of charges happened. There would be no reason for LE not to add another charge or two of theft over if they had evidence to back it up, it would serve to bolster their case. In my opinion there was still no motive for DM to steal a vehicle when he had so many, and anything that LE can do to cement a motive would go a long way towards convincing people like me otherwise, I bet.

All just my opinion only.

You mean via MSM or a more direct source i.e. police records? TIA

 

[matou]

What's going on? 39 guests on here right now.

 

[Arnie M]

What's going on? 39 guests on here right now.

That's a lot , right now it is back down to 2 members and 1 guest

I bet a lot of the DM and MS groupies read stuff here , wish they would drop in and say something once in a while , they could talk about stuff not directly related to the case .

 

[Juballee]

You're forgetting that DM has a criminal record that goes back to 2012 and includes three charges of first degree murder, as well as theft and kidnapping.

Killing your father to usurp the title of CEO from him is not really a contributing member of society thing, IMO.



Then I'd like to remind you of DM's criminal record.



DM had a lot of vehicles but I doubt he wanted to take them all apart and grind the serial numbers off of them and sell them piece by piece. Processing a stolen vehicle is something to fill DM's time as he was not gainfully employed at the time the Harley was taken or found. A guy's gotta have hobbies. Just too bad they are on the right side of the line.

I don't think you get a criminal record until after you've been convicted, but even if I am wrong, I can assure you that I meant that DM had no criminal convictions prior to being charged with the present crimes, I'm sorry if that was confusing for some members. Both MS and MWJ have prior convictions. The distinction between having no prior criminal record and having one is a rather large and telling difference, in my opinion, and I believe perhaps also in the opinions of LE, since they think it's important enough to keep track of people's records.

From what I recall, DM was CEO of MillardAir at the time of his father's death, so there would have been no need to kill his father to usurp him for the title.

He did have a lot of vehicles, and more than enough money to buy more. And having seen pictures of him working on cars in his old hanger, I have to say that he seemed to have an interest in taking them apart and putting them together. Many people have that hobby without running a chop shop. And since no charges have come forward for DM after having about 2 years to investigate the alleged chop shop, I have to assume that it was an exaggeration of the media or LE at the time.

And again, he was in fact gainfully employed as CEO of MillardAir at the time of the Harley theft. CEO is a real job in my opinion, and I think anyone who has ever been CEO of a company would say that it is more than just a hobby. I also think Revenue Canada would agree.

All just my opinion only.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I don't think you get a criminal record until after you've been convicted, but even if I am wrong, I can assure you that I meant that DM had no criminal convictions prior to being charged with the present crimes, I'm sorry if that was confusing for some members. Both MS and MWJ have prior convictions. The distinction between having no prior criminal record and having one is a rather large and telling difference, in my opinion, and I believe perhaps also in the opinions of LE, since they think it's important enough to keep track of people's records.

If you volunteer and pay to get a criminal records check it will bring up:

Outstanding entries, such as charges and warrants, judicial orders, Peace Bonds, Probation and Prohibition Orders.

http://www.ottawapolice.ca/en/conta...Check-or-Police-Report.asp#prcLEARNguidelines

So you are saying DM has no convictions on his criminal record, only the three charges of first degree murder, plus kidnapping and theft over $5k.

MWJ OTOH has gun and drug charges on his record (how many convictions?) and MS has a graffiti charge, two drug convictions and two breach convictions and a breach charge, and two charges of first degree murder.

Just by their rap sheets, DM sounds like the scariest of the three guys.

From what I recall, DM was CEO of MillardAir at the time of his father's death, so there would have been no need to kill his father to usurp him for the title.

He did have a lot of vehicles, and more than enough money to buy more. And having seen pictures of him working on cars in his old hanger, I have to say that he seemed to have an interest in taking them apart and putting them together. Many people have that hobby without running a chop shop. And since no charges have come forward for DM after having about 2 years to investigate the alleged chop shop, I have to assume that it was an exaggeration of the media or LE at the time.

And again, he was in fact gainfully employed as CEO of MillardAir at the time of the Harley theft. CEO is a real job in my opinion, and I think anyone who has ever been CEO of a company would say that it is more than just a hobby. I also think Revenue Canada would agree.

All just my opinion only.

Oh, pfft, anyone with a GST number is a CEO. The title isn't meaningful. (A job description would be.)

I would suggest that they are not pursuing the chop shop charges so that DM is available for his other three trials. It would be absurd to hang things up over a stolen Harley when three people's deaths demand justice.

 

[swedie]

Personally, I just don't see the surety that DM was into criminal activity. I see that MS and MWJ were, I have seen their criminal records, to me that is proof that they were into criminal activity, if not making their livings from the black market. I see no proof that DM was making money on the black market, he had a job as CEO as far as I know, and even if it was of a company that was liquidating or transitioning, it was still a job that he could be taxed for, making him a contributing member of society in my opinion.

I see no proof that he was 'trending' that way, personally, no matter how some may try to convince me how vile it was that he rescued that dog or that he may have used a shopping cart outside of the confines of a parking lot like a master criminal.

In my opinion, the whole chop shop story was blown up out of this one bike. As I recall it started out that day as hundreds of vehicles, and ended up being way less than 10, before the subject was never heard of again. I think that if there were any evidence that the Harley was actually stolen by DM, MS or even MWJ, we would have seen charges added in relation to it when the second wave of charges happened. There would be no reason for LE not to add another charge or two of theft over if they had evidence to back it up, it would serve to bolster their case. In my opinion there was still no motive for DM to steal a vehicle when he had so many, and anything that LE can do to cement a motive would go a long way towards convincing people like me otherwise, I bet.

All just my opinion only.

Doesn't sound like DM was squeaky clean either kwim. Pulled over and issued a contact card, the tenant who filed a case against Millard and his friends for tampering with the engine of her car the night before a hearing, calls made to police in which DM and associates were driving erratic in their neighbourhood(s), the shopping cart taken from the grocery store and IMO likely not returned, "rescuing" a pup from Mexico. Oh and let's not forget the small claims court case his mother had to represent him for because DM was and is sitting in jail on three murder charges. Perhaps the small claims case was in relation to MM's chopped Harley and trailer? If so, that took care of that charge, no need for the Crown to tack it onto his more critical charges; confinement, theft over and three murder charges. Bolster their case? Three murder charges, I'd say it's bolstered plenty enough. Whatever the small claims case, seems DM wronged someone else. Perhaps he's had many claims or lawsuits against him.

Oh bother, did we ever consider DM might have been the one who supplied MS with those cigarettes he was selling (or drugs)? Maybe DM just taxied MS to buy his stash? Did DM also make a profit? Did DM give MS and his graffiti accomplice a ride to the underpass that night and planned to pick them up a short time later? Sheesh, so many scenarios to consider and are quite possible kwim. Certainly in good time much will be revealed. MOO.

The whole chop shop fiasco...I think the reporter messed that one up. Somehow I think it was supposed to be hundreds of parts and less than ten vehicles. The HD and trailer count as two btw. As we have discussed many times over; perhaps it wasn't all about the theft of TB's truck that motivated DM to murder TB? What was DM hoping to gain by murdering LB? I don't see anything of financial value DM gained from her murder. LB even had a shoe box full of money she took to her parents home prior to her murder. DM didn't even take her dog, so what did he gain out of murdering LB? Was she murdered for SL's ipad or her cell phone? IMO DM murdered her to silence her and he saw her as a pain in his hiney. There is such a thing thrill kill FYI (even though Kav had never heard of such), which was suggested after DM's arrest. Many murderers do commit murder just for the thrill of it. HTH.

ALL MOO.

 

[swedie]

I don't think you get a criminal record until after you've been convicted, but even if I am wrong, I can assure you that I meant that DM had no criminal convictions prior to being charged with the present crimes, I'm sorry if that was confusing for some members. Both MS and MWJ have prior convictions. The distinction between having no prior criminal record and having one is a rather large and telling difference, in my opinion, and I believe perhaps also in the opinions of LE, since they think it's important enough to keep track of people's records.

From what I recall, DM was CEO of MillardAir at the time of his father's death, so there would have been no need to kill his father to usurp him for the title.

He did have a lot of vehicles, and more than enough money to buy more. And having seen pictures of him working on cars in his old hanger, I have to say that he seemed to have an interest in taking them apart and putting them together. Many people have that hobby without running a chop shop. And since no charges have come forward for DM after having about 2 years to investigate the alleged chop shop, I have to assume that it was an exaggeration of the media or LE at the time.

And again, he was in fact gainfully employed as CEO of MillardAir at the time of the Harley theft. CEO is a real job in my opinion, and I think anyone who has ever been CEO of a company would say that it is more than just a hobby. I also think Revenue Canada would agree.

All just my opinion only.

DM was CEO, not the owner. There's a difference. WM was running the show and holding the purse strings and the show must go on according to WM. DM collapsed the big tent after he murdered WM. DM was gainfully employed while WM was alive. Apparently he didn't like having to work for money, reason for the collapse of MA. DM thought he was going to be set for life living off of WM/CM's money/estate. Of course CRA would agree. As long as taxes were being paid on his earnings, regardless of his title or how honestly or dishonestly he earned them.

There are some CEOs who fairly earn their wages, while there are others who use the title as a rogue. DM IMO fit the later. What other title was good ol' dad (who wanted to make this his son's project and carry on the MA legacy) to give him?

Someone who has an interest in working on vehicles feels the need to grind serial numbers off parts? Why? Grinding off serial numbers is typical practice of those running a chop shop.

MOO.

 

[swedie]

A young Mr. Smich was often in trouble, said a former friend who did not want to be named.

“I seen him one day as being in jail or dead,” he said, but he never contemplated such a grievous charge.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...-in-tim-bosma-murder-case-to-plead-not-guilty

That for the question "Who maybe the leader?" - Maybe MS, who knows.

Perhaps there were a few friends or people who thought the same about DM but just never announced it to reporters. Not pointing finger but I find it quite interesting how some people take something like this as gospel, but seem to accuse AS and other MA executives of lying. MOO.

Al Sharif was happy to have only limited contact with Dellen Millard, the boss’s son and the guy in charge of hangar construction. As far as Mr. Sharif and other executives at the company were concerned, Dellen and his red mohawk spelled trouble.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/m...-bosma-murder-suspect-started-to-dismantle-it

 

[Arnie M]

The Chop Shop Fiasco may not be a fiasco

We should not rule out the chop shop angle just because we have not heard of additional charges being laid .

Early in the investigation , when (homicide) detectives were asked , they said all of those things would be handled by the Hamilton auto-theft squad .

As far as we know he has not (yet) even been (specifically) charged with the stolen and chopped Harley and trailer .... I am sure those charges are yet to come .

 

[Juballee]

The Chop Shop Fiasco may not be a fiasco

We should not rule out the chop shop angle just because we have not heard of additional charges being laid .

Early in the investigation , when (homicide) detectives were asked , they said all of those things would be handled by the Hamilton auto-theft squad .

As far as we know he has not (yet) even been (specifically) charged with the stolen and chopped Harley and trailer .... I am sure those charges are yet to come .

It's been two years, surely any police force would have had enough time to pin charges on MS, DM or MWJ for at least one of the alleged chop shop vehicles by now. They had enough time to investigate a disappearance and a suicide, we even know they found the owner of at least one vehicle reported stolen (Harley owner), so why no charges?

They have even had time for new crimes to be committed (the breaches), investigated and had charges laid, so I am confident that it is not a time issue. I also highly doubt any court date to deal with additional theft charges would further delay the TB trial since MS's new breach charges aren't delaying the trial.

Could it be that that being technically in possession of the stolen items while they were found on his property wasn't enough to establish for certain that he was the thief, or to prove that he was even aware of the existence of the stolen items? Or does DM perhaps have a genuine electronic alibi for that date and time of the Harley theft and LE haven't been able to find anyone else to charge after 2 years?

I'm curious to see what will happen at the trials.

 

[Arnie M]

.

Typically the charge would be possession of stolen property , the penalties can be more severe than the penalties for the actual thief .

It is a very easy charge for police to lay because obviously the items are in that persons possession or building or yard or whatever.

But it is also one of the easiest charges to get out of , even while the police are there .... hey officer , here is the name and receipt of where I bought the parts from ..... or that stuff belongs to my buddy and he is just storing it here.

As soon as you pass the buck you are off the hook , and that is why honest people should get a receipt , or keep track of where the stuff came from , and avoid heavily discounted items sold for cash without receipts.

True enough chop shops are the hardest to pin down , it is their very nature to disassemble everything , remove identifying marks , and have everything distributed within hours of the theft and the shop is clean and empty if the cops come by

But if the engine DM removed from the black Mustang is now in his Cobra project the serial number can be traced to see if it was from a stolen car .... or the woodchipper could be the one stolen from Oakville .... I happen to think it is.

 

[Sillybilly]

WRT the potential for chop shop / motorcycle charges, I doubt the Crown would bother when DM is already facing life on murder charges. There is no Statute of Limitations in Canada for indictable offences, so in the event he was found NG on the 3 murder charges, the Crown could always bring forward charges in the property crimes.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Perhaps there were a few friends or people who thought the same about DM but just never announced it to reporters. Not pointing finger but I find it quite interesting how some people take something like this as gospel, but seem to accuse AS and other MA executives of lying. MOO.

Al Sharif was happy to have only limited contact with Dellen Millard, the boss’s son and the guy in charge of hangar construction. As far as Mr. Sharif and other executives at the company were concerned, Dellen and his red mohawk spelled trouble.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/m...-bosma-murder-suspect-started-to-dismantle-it

I do not belong to those who have argued that any statements about DM are not true. (I would hope so, but that doesn't matter at all. Actually I would hope so for MS too.)
I do not want to accuse MS more than DM. But we have read many negative about DM and little about MS. Since we can not know who the murderer was (DM / MS / MS + DM or an unknown perp), I think it's unfair, "taking apart" only and always DM.
Btw: A Mohawk dyed red (which AS complained) makes no murderer. Otherwise we also could speak about the bald patch of MS (sister's wedding). But also a bald patch makes no murderer, of course. Even a hoodie makes no murderer though gangster clothing too.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

What's going on? 39 guests on here right now.

Something actual in the news?

 

[Arnie M]

WRT the potential for chop shop / motorcycle charges, I doubt the Crown would bother when DM is already facing life on murder charges. There is no Statute of Limitations in Canada for indictable offences, so in the event he was found NG on the 3 murder charges, the Crown could always bring forward charges in the property crimes.

I have given that a lot of thought (I wish we had a retired policeman or crown prosecutor here)

Here is my guess .... I do not think it would be done to bring more charges against DM , more of a "duty" or "responsibility" of police to investigate something right in front of them (stolen property) ... I do not think they could simply walk away from it even if they wanted to. The crown may decide not to prosecute because it would serve no purpose , but I dont think police themselves have that option. I could be wrong

As far as I know very few auto thefts are ever solved and I picture a bored or frustrated auto-theft unit wanting to close a file or two when they have the opportunity. That is their main job and they are not all caught up in intricate homicide cases etc.