GUILTY Russia - Four teens cooked & eaten, Yaroslavl, 28 June 2008
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TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #4- Latest: nodamselindistress
Blue_Dolphin308
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Being an abuse survivor of SRA (satanic ritual abuse) This hits too close to home. THese people do exist and it does continue to go on. I am even more appalled at how the main stream meadi does try to keep these things quite for fear of being accused of going on a witch hunt! I think the more these people are exposed the greater chace that they will stop. Its the secrecy they are after, and thats what allows it to continue.
Blue_Dolphin308
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Snip
The FBI is who trains local media and how local media responds. Satanic ritual abuse DOES occur, and it is quite obvious that it does. Many victims have come forward, only to be made to feel like they are hallucinating! Tell me why so many people UNRELATED to one another can come up with the same types of abuse, the same types of rituals, and the same types of flashbacks as well as similiar stories of what happened to them?? They are unrelated, therefore they don't have time to collaborate with one another. It does go on, its just that people refuse to beleive that it goes on and they like to hide behind there rose colored glasses, beleiveing that the world is really not that evil.
Blue_Dolphin308
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Sorry for multiple posts, but I just saw this topic, and some of you know that this subject hits dear to my heart.
Missizzy I wonder what Agent Lanning is really trying to hide? He goes so far trying to disprove that Satanic ritual abuse doesn't exist, what is he REALLY trying to hide?? Makes me really wonder.
Blue_Dolphin308
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Kudos to her! Its a living hell growing up in a cult. A person who does dare to speak out can put themselves as well as their family members at risk. The cult does not want to have their secrets told. And will do whatever it takes to shtut people up, including killing them, or there family members andor making them live in fear the rest of their lives!
Ladybass--I know this cuts close to home for several on board. It's absolutely insane for the FBI to merely point to the hysteria and ignore the crime. I have come to believe that the hysteria of the 1980s-1990s occurred for a distinct reason. There was a sudden uptick in satanic crimes. Somewhere upthread, I linked to a satanic site which discusses the "coming days" and the repeating of a time "not too long ago". Are they playing with us or warning us?
I want these crimes investigated as any others with common motives. Would a young Jewish man with a swastika carved on his back be ignored? Do we ignore the disgusting sight of a mock lynching? Hate is hate. I'm trying really hard to keep the light shining on these crimes. I keep waiting to hear a voice in the wilderness speaking out with clarity.
LE and the FBI seem as if they only want the facts, nothing but the facts. You commit a murder, you go to jail. We don't want to hear about pentagrams, blood, knives, dismemberment. It's all the same after all as just a disagreement gone bad. Does anyone actually believe that. Many people are capable of killing in a fit of passion. How many can dismember and burn a body? If we don't dig deeper to expose the motives, we're going to keep finding goat heads in the cemeteries and little girls snatched from their yards and beaten senseless with large rocks..
Remember the young man, Matthew Foote, last month who was caught after he'd killed and skinned his family's pet dog? He said he did it because the dog was Jesus and then changed his story and said that it was because the dog was Satan. He was calm, emotionless. His family was at mass. He had just returned from Louisiana where he'd met up with a group "of evil people". He skinned the dog, disemboweled it, set it on fire, and buried it. That follows to a "T" many of the other killings we read of--both human and animal. Why have so many of the articles we originally linked to been updated to remove his comment about Jesus? Why have the evil people in Louisiana not been sought? Just angry at his family pet?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110870&highlight=matthew+foote
I, for one, am really tired of turning away. We owe the victims and survivors much much more.
I want these crimes investigated as any others with common motives. Would a young Jewish man with a swastika carved on his back be ignored? Do we ignore the disgusting sight of a mock lynching? Hate is hate. I'm trying really hard to keep the light shining on these crimes. I keep waiting to hear a voice in the wilderness speaking out with clarity.
LE and the FBI seem as if they only want the facts, nothing but the facts. You commit a murder, you go to jail. We don't want to hear about pentagrams, blood, knives, dismemberment. It's all the same after all as just a disagreement gone bad. Does anyone actually believe that. Many people are capable of killing in a fit of passion. How many can dismember and burn a body? If we don't dig deeper to expose the motives, we're going to keep finding goat heads in the cemeteries and little girls snatched from their yards and beaten senseless with large rocks..
Remember the young man, Matthew Foote, last month who was caught after he'd killed and skinned his family's pet dog? He said he did it because the dog was Jesus and then changed his story and said that it was because the dog was Satan. He was calm, emotionless. His family was at mass. He had just returned from Louisiana where he'd met up with a group "of evil people". He skinned the dog, disemboweled it, set it on fire, and buried it. That follows to a "T" many of the other killings we read of--both human and animal. Why have so many of the articles we originally linked to been updated to remove his comment about Jesus? Why have the evil people in Louisiana not been sought? Just angry at his family pet?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110870&highlight=matthew+foote
I, for one, am really tired of turning away. We owe the victims and survivors much much more.
I wanted to point out that there is a current trial in San Jose, CA concerning the murder of 15 year old Michael Russell. He was allegedly stabbed to death by "self-professed" satanists--Jae Williams, 15 and Randy Thompson, 16. Witnesses have stated that the two teens talked of wanting to "lose their killing virginity". There is also testimony concerning the abuse and torture of animals.
There are many similarities with the Russian teens' case. Williams and Thompson are being tried as adults. I started a thread under the Trials section:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118257&highlight=michael+russell
There are many similarities with the Russian teens' case. Williams and Thompson are being tried as adults. I started a thread under the Trials section:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118257&highlight=michael+russell
I remember Hurd but he'd slipped my mind, thankfully. It's an interesting story and pertinent to the discussion at hand. Steven Craig Hurd died "quietly" in prison. That's more than his victims could say. I need to check out the co-defendants who were released.
I went to middle and high school in Huntington Beach, CA and remember these killings vividly as our family had moved down from Chatsworth--just a few blocks from where the Manson family lived. My parents fled to the relative safety of Orange County but it seems now (the more research I do) that they stepped in a hornet's web. There were so many horrid murders in Southern California during the early 70s. Hurd's killing spree occurred during my last week of 10th grade and I remember that my Mom would not let me wait for the school bus. She drove me. I don't recall being overly concerned about satanists over the years but maybe some of my ancient history is coming back to haunt me.
Read the gruesome details and compare them to the satanic linked crimes which we've been reading about. This was before the "hysteria" but the details never seem to change. That's of note, too.
http://50cases.freedomblogging.com/...ave-of-fear-with-a-two-day-killing-spree/297/
http://www.ocregister.com/news/hurd...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...ler-behind-1970s-ritual-slayings-is-dead.html
Interesting that the LA Times ran this today. Hurd died in 2005.
More about the Hurd killings and another. This was long before the internet. Yet so many of those accused and convicted admit to owning and reading the Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey. We've read that not a word of violence is espoused within this book. Really? How did so many diverse and geographically separated people come up with the same ideas? And still seem to be repeating them.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...mer_of_satan_cultists__cannibals_of_1970.html (Note 2 pgs.)
"....It had been about five years since a one-time carnival worker, Anton LaVey, came up with the notion of worshiping Satan for fun and profit. He opened the Church of Satan, penned the "Satanic Bible," and attracted a few thousand followers.
Suddenly, Satan was chic. Most of it was harmless ritual. But sometimes the hell-raising turned deadly, especially when mixed with LSD and other mind-bending potions. In 1969, the world was horrified by the Manson family bloodbaths, the work of the followers of one such anti-Christ.
Now, less than a year later, two separate murders suggested more devils were on the loose, and even worse, that cannibal clans of Satan-worshiping killers were popping up all over the country...."
and
Upon his arrest Baker made a startling statement. "I have a problem," he said. "I am a cannibal."
He then reached into his pocket and pulled out a few small, white objects - finger bones. Baker said they came from Schlosser's hands. He had hacked them off the victim and put them in his pocket, in case, he said, he wanted a snack.
Along with the severed digits, Baker had a copy of the "Satanic Bible" in his pocket...."
more at link
I went to middle and high school in Huntington Beach, CA and remember these killings vividly as our family had moved down from Chatsworth--just a few blocks from where the Manson family lived. My parents fled to the relative safety of Orange County but it seems now (the more research I do) that they stepped in a hornet's web. There were so many horrid murders in Southern California during the early 70s. Hurd's killing spree occurred during my last week of 10th grade and I remember that my Mom would not let me wait for the school bus. She drove me. I don't recall being overly concerned about satanists over the years but maybe some of my ancient history is coming back to haunt me.
Read the gruesome details and compare them to the satanic linked crimes which we've been reading about. This was before the "hysteria" but the details never seem to change. That's of note, too.
http://50cases.freedomblogging.com/...ave-of-fear-with-a-two-day-killing-spree/297/
http://www.ocregister.com/news/hurd...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...ler-behind-1970s-ritual-slayings-is-dead.html
Interesting that the LA Times ran this today. Hurd died in 2005.
More about the Hurd killings and another. This was long before the internet. Yet so many of those accused and convicted admit to owning and reading the Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey. We've read that not a word of violence is espoused within this book. Really? How did so many diverse and geographically separated people come up with the same ideas? And still seem to be repeating them.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...mer_of_satan_cultists__cannibals_of_1970.html (Note 2 pgs.)
"....It had been about five years since a one-time carnival worker, Anton LaVey, came up with the notion of worshiping Satan for fun and profit. He opened the Church of Satan, penned the "Satanic Bible," and attracted a few thousand followers.
Suddenly, Satan was chic. Most of it was harmless ritual. But sometimes the hell-raising turned deadly, especially when mixed with LSD and other mind-bending potions. In 1969, the world was horrified by the Manson family bloodbaths, the work of the followers of one such anti-Christ.
Now, less than a year later, two separate murders suggested more devils were on the loose, and even worse, that cannibal clans of Satan-worshiping killers were popping up all over the country...."
and
Upon his arrest Baker made a startling statement. "I have a problem," he said. "I am a cannibal."
He then reached into his pocket and pulled out a few small, white objects - finger bones. Baker said they came from Schlosser's hands. He had hacked them off the victim and put them in his pocket, in case, he said, he wanted a snack.
Along with the severed digits, Baker had a copy of the "Satanic Bible" in his pocket...."
more at link
I don't know where else to put this article but it seems as if this thread has become a repository of all things satanic. I found this interesting:
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=23479
Inmate's Satanism can be factor in sentencing
"....In his latest appeal, [Irving Alvin] Davis raised numerous issues. Among those was his contention that the trial judge erred in allowing the state to present evidence of his conversion to Satanism in 2005. The prosecutor introduced Davis’ prison records, writings, drawings and a pentagram etched into his body as evidence of his Satanism. During the trial, the prosecution had Davis stand up, remove his shirt and show the pentagram tattoo to the jury."
more at link
So, the very fact that an inmate has chosen to follow satanism CAN be used as a factor in sentencing, as upheld by this court. Does that mean that the court does not agree that satanism is merely a harmless choice, an interest in a certain type of music or macabre films? Could there really be some sort of a link between those who choose this path and violence? Or is it all just a bunch of pretenders, wannabes and hysteria?
The Texas Appeals court decision:
http://www.cca.courts.state.tx.us/OPINIONS/HTMLOPINIONINFO.ASP?OPINIONID=20122
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=23479
Inmate's Satanism can be factor in sentencing
"....In his latest appeal, [Irving Alvin] Davis raised numerous issues. Among those was his contention that the trial judge erred in allowing the state to present evidence of his conversion to Satanism in 2005. The prosecutor introduced Davis’ prison records, writings, drawings and a pentagram etched into his body as evidence of his Satanism. During the trial, the prosecution had Davis stand up, remove his shirt and show the pentagram tattoo to the jury."
more at link
So, the very fact that an inmate has chosen to follow satanism CAN be used as a factor in sentencing, as upheld by this court. Does that mean that the court does not agree that satanism is merely a harmless choice, an interest in a certain type of music or macabre films? Could there really be some sort of a link between those who choose this path and violence? Or is it all just a bunch of pretenders, wannabes and hysteria?
The Texas Appeals court decision:
http://www.cca.courts.state.tx.us/OPINIONS/HTMLOPINIONINFO.ASP?OPINIONID=20122
Finally, some direction and expert testimony concerning questions that have been posed on this thread. From the link above:
".....The prosecutor explained that "there is no need for the State to prove that the Defendant himself engaged in all of those illegal violent acts, only that the group is known to do that, and that the Defendant is a member of that group." The prosecutor further stated that appellant's "belief in satanism is being offered as evidence of his character, to show his belief systems" and how they relate to future-dangerousness; the issues of character and future dangerousness "are at the heart of the sentencing phase in a capital murder case." Following the parties' arguments, the trial court granted the motion in limine "until such time as [the state's] expert can establish outside the hearing of the Jury that, in fact, there is a propensity in this organization or this faith or this religion . . . for illegal activities or an [sic] engaging in violent activities."
The state's expert witness, Donald Vaughn Haley, later testified on voir dire examination outside the presence of the jury that Satanism advocates violence, as evidenced by the discussion of human sacrifice in The Satanic Bible and the "rituals of destruction" contained in The Satanic Rituals. Haley also gave several examples of people who committed murder and mutilation "in the name of Satan." Over defense counsel's objections on relevance and the First Amendment, the trial court ruled that Haley would be permitted "to testify in the area of the satanic religion" and that "all of that evidence is relevant to the issue of future dangerousness and it is outside the protection of the First Amendment." Appellant also filed written objections to the court's ruling, arguing that the evidence was "irrelevant" and that its admission violated Rule 403 and his rights of freedom of religion and freedom of association under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.
At trial, the state offered into evidence various items obtained from appellant's prison cell, including five books (state's Exhibits 285-289), three writing tablets (state's Exhibits 290, 291, and 293), seven drawings (state's Exhibits 294-299 and 301), and a handwritten note (state's Exhibit 300). The books were entitled Necronomicon, The Secret Life of a Satanist, Satan Speaks!, The Satanic Rituals, and The Satanic Bible. Appellant's writing tablets and drawings contained Satanic imagery and references, including lists of "Satanic statements," "Satanic rules," and "Satanic sins." One of appellant's drawings depicts a naked woman who is bound and gagged, and another drawing depicts a woman with a slashed throat. In the handwritten note, which appellant described as "a suplement [sic] to my application to the Church of Satan," appellant expressed his desire to pledge allegiance to the Church of Satan. The state also offered into evidence appellant's grievance forms (state's Exhibit 247) and other records (state's Exhibit 248) from the Texas Department of Criminal Justice (TDCJ). In a grievance form received by TDCJ on June 19, 2007, appellant stated that he had been a Satanist since 2005, that he was also a "blood sorcerer" who had taken up vampirism, and that he was without the materials that he needed to practice his religion. Other records showed that, in 2006, appellant asked TDCJ to change his religion on his travel card from Buddhist to Satanist and that in 2007 he requested that "Vampirism/Thaumaturgy" be entered in addition to Satanism. The state also demonstrated that appellant had an inverted pentagram on his chest by having appellant lift his shirt and stand before the jury.
When Dr. Haley testified before the jury, the state asked him about "the philosophy of satanists regarding human sacrifice." Haley responded with passages from The Satanic Bible...."
A quote from the Satanic Bible, included in the expert testimony:
"The question arises, 'Who, then, would be considered a fit and proper human sacrifice, and how is one qualified to pass judgment on such a person?' The answer is brutally simple. Anyone who has unjustly wronged you or who has gone out of his way to hurt you-to deliberately cause trouble and hardship for you or those dear to you." . . . "When a person, by his reprehensible behavior, practically cries out to be destroyed, it is truly your moral obligation to indulge, then, their wish."
and
"....Haley testified that to destroy a person means to cause their death. Defense expert John Gordon Melton disagreed with Haley's definition. Melton testified that, according to Anton LaVey, the author of The Satanic Bible, to destroy a person means to "symbolically curse them." Melton, however, acknowledged on cross-examination that there are some Satanists who believe that Satan is a negative personal antideity, and that that particular type of Satanism has "very negative social and personal effects," including people being killed in the name of Satanism...."
much more at link (quite lengthy but an excellent and thought provoking debate)
".....The prosecutor explained that "there is no need for the State to prove that the Defendant himself engaged in all of those illegal violent acts, only that the group is known to do that, and that the Defendant is a member of that group." The prosecutor further stated that appellant's "belief in satanism is being offered as evidence of his character, to show his belief systems" and how they relate to future-dangerousness; the issues of character and future dangerousness "are at the heart of the sentencing phase in a capital murder case." Following the parties' arguments, the trial court granted the motion in limine "until such time as [the state's] expert can establish outside the hearing of the Jury that, in fact, there is a propensity in this organization or this faith or this religion . . . for illegal activities or an [sic] engaging in violent activities."
The state's expert witness, Donald Vaughn Haley, later testified on voir dire examination outside the presence of the jury that Satanism advocates violence, as evidenced by the discussion of human sacrifice in The Satanic Bible and the "rituals of destruction" contained in The Satanic Rituals. Haley also gave several examples of people who committed murder and mutilation "in the name of Satan." Over defense counsel's objections on relevance and the First Amendment, the trial court ruled that Haley would be permitted "to testify in the area of the satanic religion" and that "all of that evidence is relevant to the issue of future dangerousness and it is outside the protection of the First Amendment." Appellant also filed written objections to the court's ruling, arguing that the evidence was "irrelevant" and that its admission violated Rule 403 and his rights of freedom of religion and freedom of association under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.
At trial, the state offered into evidence various items obtained from appellant's prison cell, including five books (state's Exhibits 285-289), three writing tablets (state's Exhibits 290, 291, and 293), seven drawings (state's Exhibits 294-299 and 301), and a handwritten note (state's Exhibit 300). The books were entitled Necronomicon, The Secret Life of a Satanist, Satan Speaks!, The Satanic Rituals, and The Satanic Bible. Appellant's writing tablets and drawings contained Satanic imagery and references, including lists of "Satanic statements," "Satanic rules," and "Satanic sins." One of appellant's drawings depicts a naked woman who is bound and gagged, and another drawing depicts a woman with a slashed throat. In the handwritten note, which appellant described as "a suplement [sic] to my application to the Church of Satan," appellant expressed his desire to pledge allegiance to the Church of Satan. The state also offered into evidence appellant's grievance forms (state's Exhibit 247) and other records (state's Exhibit 248) from the Texas Department of Criminal Justice (TDCJ). In a grievance form received by TDCJ on June 19, 2007, appellant stated that he had been a Satanist since 2005, that he was also a "blood sorcerer" who had taken up vampirism, and that he was without the materials that he needed to practice his religion. Other records showed that, in 2006, appellant asked TDCJ to change his religion on his travel card from Buddhist to Satanist and that in 2007 he requested that "Vampirism/Thaumaturgy" be entered in addition to Satanism. The state also demonstrated that appellant had an inverted pentagram on his chest by having appellant lift his shirt and stand before the jury.
When Dr. Haley testified before the jury, the state asked him about "the philosophy of satanists regarding human sacrifice." Haley responded with passages from The Satanic Bible...."
A quote from the Satanic Bible, included in the expert testimony:
"The question arises, 'Who, then, would be considered a fit and proper human sacrifice, and how is one qualified to pass judgment on such a person?' The answer is brutally simple. Anyone who has unjustly wronged you or who has gone out of his way to hurt you-to deliberately cause trouble and hardship for you or those dear to you." . . . "When a person, by his reprehensible behavior, practically cries out to be destroyed, it is truly your moral obligation to indulge, then, their wish."
and
"....Haley testified that to destroy a person means to cause their death. Defense expert John Gordon Melton disagreed with Haley's definition. Melton testified that, according to Anton LaVey, the author of The Satanic Bible, to destroy a person means to "symbolically curse them." Melton, however, acknowledged on cross-examination that there are some Satanists who believe that Satan is a negative personal antideity, and that that particular type of Satanism has "very negative social and personal effects," including people being killed in the name of Satanism...."
much more at link (quite lengthy but an excellent and thought provoking debate)
So, I wondered who this Dr. Haley was. I found an interesting write up here (warning, some sexy Halloween costume photos) on a blog. Scroll down to June 7, 2009 and you can read about Haley:
http://journal.phirebrush.eu/
"....Recently, I met Professor, Don Haley. This former Marine, is now the Administration of Justice, Professor at Tidewater Community College in Virginia Beach.
Don’s experience as a Police Officer in Chesapeake, a Detective, a Police Officer, a Deputy Sheriff and a Correctional Officer in Virginia Beach, speaks well of his expertise. On a daily basis, he was exposed to domestic violence to women and girls, and other criminals.
Don said, “As a former police officer/detective and current criminal justice professor, I have been exposed to the realities of violence against women that occur everyday in our society. The National Crime Victimization Survey stated that at least 248,300 women in the United States were raped or sexually assaulted in 2007. The numbers of reported and unreported acts of domestic violence against women are beyond belief.
In February of 2008, I traveled to El Paso, Texas to serve as an expert witness in a murder and sexual assault trial of a 15 year old girl by the name of Melissa Medina...."
Don Haley's website:
http://girlsgonesafe.com/
His CV:
http://donhaley.com/first_2.html
http://journal.phirebrush.eu/
"....Recently, I met Professor, Don Haley. This former Marine, is now the Administration of Justice, Professor at Tidewater Community College in Virginia Beach.
Don’s experience as a Police Officer in Chesapeake, a Detective, a Police Officer, a Deputy Sheriff and a Correctional Officer in Virginia Beach, speaks well of his expertise. On a daily basis, he was exposed to domestic violence to women and girls, and other criminals.
Don said, “As a former police officer/detective and current criminal justice professor, I have been exposed to the realities of violence against women that occur everyday in our society. The National Crime Victimization Survey stated that at least 248,300 women in the United States were raped or sexually assaulted in 2007. The numbers of reported and unreported acts of domestic violence against women are beyond belief.
In February of 2008, I traveled to El Paso, Texas to serve as an expert witness in a murder and sexual assault trial of a 15 year old girl by the name of Melissa Medina...."
Don Haley's website:
http://girlsgonesafe.com/
His CV:
http://donhaley.com/first_2.html
vokoya
New Member
This is an interesting subject. What I wonder is how many people merely have a fascination of satanism but have no true knowledge of the ritualism of satanic worship.
I read in one of the postings on this thread that a judge considered a person a murderer because a group of satanist committed murder and that all members of the group were guilty even though they may have not have had knowledge of the crime.
Is being a "satanist" a generic label with no method of determinating the depth of their commitment to the dark art?
Isn't it possible that a person who labels themselves as satanist, who has no commitment to whatever the heck real satanist do, has no intent to harm another human being or an animal? Is it fair to judge them entirely on that concept and brand them a murderer?
On the other hand, is it fair to label a murderer as a satanist when they obviously have no concept of satanic rites?
Just to be clear, I am not a satanist and have no fascination with it what so ever. I'm just curious about the use of a label with no clear definition being used to determine a persons guilt or innocence.
For instance, this guy has 666 tatooed above an eyebrow and actually carried the murder victim's body to the police station. In your opinion, is he a true satanist?
http://bit.ly/bU1VVE
I read in one of the postings on this thread that a judge considered a person a murderer because a group of satanist committed murder and that all members of the group were guilty even though they may have not have had knowledge of the crime.
Is being a "satanist" a generic label with no method of determinating the depth of their commitment to the dark art?
Isn't it possible that a person who labels themselves as satanist, who has no commitment to whatever the heck real satanist do, has no intent to harm another human being or an animal? Is it fair to judge them entirely on that concept and brand them a murderer?
On the other hand, is it fair to label a murderer as a satanist when they obviously have no concept of satanic rites?
Just to be clear, I am not a satanist and have no fascination with it what so ever. I'm just curious about the use of a label with no clear definition being used to determine a persons guilt or innocence.
For instance, this guy has 666 tatooed above an eyebrow and actually carried the murder victim's body to the police station. In your opinion, is he a true satanist?
http://bit.ly/bU1VVE
Vokoya--You bring up some valid and interesting points. I surely don't have the answers as I'm questioning this subject just as you are. I have a strong suspicion that some of the answers lie in the satanic writings of LaVey but I really have no intention of purchasing his works.
When I first read the appeals decision I posted upthread, I was surprised. Would a judge allow a man to raise his shirt in court to display gang or racist tattoos? I don't know. The expert witness, Dr. Haley, spoke with strong conviction. Does his CV tell us that we can trust his words implicitly? If so, he's got me quite worried.
I have no doubt that there are many many teens and young adults who have a fascination with satanism and ghoulish things but who would never harm an animal, much less a person. But if one identifies with satanism or is a self-professed satanist (like the boys in San Jose or Jason Budrow, "Mr. 666"), what does that mean? I realize that there are many levels of satanism--just as in any belief, faith, or path. I guess, in some ways, it is like neo-nazism. There are those who would call for violence and those who simply hate but would never harm. After all there are legions of people who believe that being gay is a sin and yet most would never harm a gay person. But some would. At what point do we consider the person's beliefs? At what point do those beliefs become a matter of public safety? We have gang enforcement units. We have sex offender registries. What's the next step for crimes committed with a satanic component?
When I first read the appeals decision I posted upthread, I was surprised. Would a judge allow a man to raise his shirt in court to display gang or racist tattoos? I don't know. The expert witness, Dr. Haley, spoke with strong conviction. Does his CV tell us that we can trust his words implicitly? If so, he's got me quite worried.
I have no doubt that there are many many teens and young adults who have a fascination with satanism and ghoulish things but who would never harm an animal, much less a person. But if one identifies with satanism or is a self-professed satanist (like the boys in San Jose or Jason Budrow, "Mr. 666"), what does that mean? I realize that there are many levels of satanism--just as in any belief, faith, or path. I guess, in some ways, it is like neo-nazism. There are those who would call for violence and those who simply hate but would never harm. After all there are legions of people who believe that being gay is a sin and yet most would never harm a gay person. But some would. At what point do we consider the person's beliefs? At what point do those beliefs become a matter of public safety? We have gang enforcement units. We have sex offender registries. What's the next step for crimes committed with a satanic component?
Concerning animal and human sacrifice:
http://www.anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap0902/sacrifice.htm (by Dawn Perlmutter)
http://www.anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap0502/blood.htm (Also by Dawn Perlmutter)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles (mentioned in the article above)
Another in-depth article by Dawn Perlmutter of UCLA. This is a breakdown of the levels/subsets of satanism, lots of mention of sacrifice and ritual crimes:
http://www.anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap0702/skandalon.htm
http://www.anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap0902/sacrifice.htm (by Dawn Perlmutter)
http://www.anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap0502/blood.htm (Also by Dawn Perlmutter)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles (mentioned in the article above)
Another in-depth article by Dawn Perlmutter of UCLA. This is a breakdown of the levels/subsets of satanism, lots of mention of sacrifice and ritual crimes:
http://www.anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap0702/skandalon.htm
Author, Diane Vera, disputes most of what Dawn Perlmutter has written:
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/asp/people/Perlmutter/crime.html
Comments on Dawn Perlmutter's Fall 2003 paper
"The Forensics of Sacrifice: A Symbolic Analysis of Ritualistic Crime"
How in the heck are we supposed to know whom to believe??
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/asp/people/Perlmutter/crime.html
Comments on Dawn Perlmutter's Fall 2003 paper
"The Forensics of Sacrifice: A Symbolic Analysis of Ritualistic Crime"
How in the heck are we supposed to know whom to believe??
vokoya
New Member
Thanks for the links Missizzy. I enjoyed reading them. And the question of who to believe is a good one. My gut inclination is that nobody has correct answers because bonafide scholars have not organized a school of thought.
I think there is more grave robbing because "satanic rituals for dummies" is all over the internet and a person can just google what they want to know.
Anyway, here are some relatively recent grave robbing articles & news items:
http://bit.ly/c8ssax
http://bit.ly/bWALSU
http://bit.ly/9RAgD5
http://bit.ly/czXSfD
I think there is more grave robbing because "satanic rituals for dummies" is all over the internet and a person can just google what they want to know.
Anyway, here are some relatively recent grave robbing articles & news items:
http://bit.ly/c8ssax
http://bit.ly/bWALSU
http://bit.ly/9RAgD5
http://bit.ly/czXSfD
ITA, my point is that the full belief system or adherence to a faith/following matters not a whit to me if we've got a dead body or dismemberment. If the person is 15 or 40 doesn't matter. Where they learned the ritual doesn't matter.
I find it to be very similar to the multiple arrests (we have a thread) of members of the Followers of Christ in Oregon. They absolutely refuse to provide their children with medical care and many deaths have occurred. Their faith is constantly called into question when the children are removed by DHS for medical neglect. The children are left with their parents if everything is going OK but the moment a child needs help, DHS sweeps in. Isn't it exactly the same as when LE considers the precipitating factors of gangs and hate crimes. If no crime is committed, you're left to your own hateful and/or violent thoughts. If you commit a crime, your belief system is certainly considered at court.
If a person has altars in their bedroom, does spells and incantations, wears upside down crosses and has pentagram tattoos--we don't have a problem. If, however, they have a severed human foot in their possession, I believe we do.
Thanks for the links concerning the grave robberies. I hadn't heard of the first two but we have a thread on the Lancaster, PA one. That one is very sad:
GRAVE ROBBERS steal 9year old girl P.A. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Here's another article concerning strange happenings around Lancaster cemeteries:
http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/281470
FWIW, the first two news clips you posted pertained to grave robberies on April 30th and mid-May. A little more info about each of those crimes:
http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/043010-teen-stole-foot-from-grave-police
http://www2.wsav.com/news/2010/may/19/man_arrested_on_charge_of_desecration_of_grave-ar-209636/
And the possible date significance of one:
Apr. 21 ~ GRAND CLIMAX (thru Apr 30)
(Sexual and Blood Rituals)
Abduction, ceremonial preparation & holding of sacrificial victim for Walpurgisnacht
Oral, anal, and vaginal, and human sacrifice
Apr. 30 ~ WALPURGISNACHT
(Blood Ritual)
Animal and/or human sacrifice
The theft of Paula's body, in Lancaster, occurred on a Friday the 13th. Her body has not been found (although some bones were found by a dog) and her grave robbers have not been caught. I find nothing for mid-May, other than it possibly leading up to the Solstice. In the May case, two men were caught together. In the other, Daniel Wayne Stanley proffered the foot to LE on April 30th. He led them to the grave. It sounds like he's severely mentally ill and acted alone:
http://www.dreamindemon.com/2010/05/09/daniel-stanley-took-a-foot-from-a-grave/
"....Stanley’s My-Space page (now deleted) conveyed a sense of nihilism and frequent references to death. On April 19, he wrote, “still contemplating the time when i go get my corpse. i dont think i could fit the whole thing in my bag.”
However, where else would a person get an idea of dismembering a corpse than a website or book concerning satanic or other occult rituals?
Once again, I don't care what people believe until they commit a crime. Then, I care.
I find it to be very similar to the multiple arrests (we have a thread) of members of the Followers of Christ in Oregon. They absolutely refuse to provide their children with medical care and many deaths have occurred. Their faith is constantly called into question when the children are removed by DHS for medical neglect. The children are left with their parents if everything is going OK but the moment a child needs help, DHS sweeps in. Isn't it exactly the same as when LE considers the precipitating factors of gangs and hate crimes. If no crime is committed, you're left to your own hateful and/or violent thoughts. If you commit a crime, your belief system is certainly considered at court.
If a person has altars in their bedroom, does spells and incantations, wears upside down crosses and has pentagram tattoos--we don't have a problem. If, however, they have a severed human foot in their possession, I believe we do.
Thanks for the links concerning the grave robberies. I hadn't heard of the first two but we have a thread on the Lancaster, PA one. That one is very sad:
GRAVE ROBBERS steal 9year old girl P.A. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Here's another article concerning strange happenings around Lancaster cemeteries:
http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/281470
FWIW, the first two news clips you posted pertained to grave robberies on April 30th and mid-May. A little more info about each of those crimes:
http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/043010-teen-stole-foot-from-grave-police
http://www2.wsav.com/news/2010/may/19/man_arrested_on_charge_of_desecration_of_grave-ar-209636/
And the possible date significance of one:
Apr. 21 ~ GRAND CLIMAX (thru Apr 30)
(Sexual and Blood Rituals)
Abduction, ceremonial preparation & holding of sacrificial victim for Walpurgisnacht
Oral, anal, and vaginal, and human sacrifice
Apr. 30 ~ WALPURGISNACHT
(Blood Ritual)
Animal and/or human sacrifice
The theft of Paula's body, in Lancaster, occurred on a Friday the 13th. Her body has not been found (although some bones were found by a dog) and her grave robbers have not been caught. I find nothing for mid-May, other than it possibly leading up to the Solstice. In the May case, two men were caught together. In the other, Daniel Wayne Stanley proffered the foot to LE on April 30th. He led them to the grave. It sounds like he's severely mentally ill and acted alone:
http://www.dreamindemon.com/2010/05/09/daniel-stanley-took-a-foot-from-a-grave/
"....Stanley’s My-Space page (now deleted) conveyed a sense of nihilism and frequent references to death. On April 19, he wrote, “still contemplating the time when i go get my corpse. i dont think i could fit the whole thing in my bag.”
However, where else would a person get an idea of dismembering a corpse than a website or book concerning satanic or other occult rituals?
Once again, I don't care what people believe until they commit a crime. Then, I care.
I figure that this has indeed become our repository of all things occult and satanic so I'll post two new links here. The first concerns a missing Illinois teen and possible satanic involvement. I also posted a link to this article on his thread.
http://www.bnd.com/2010/11/28/1492828/was-young-teen-buried-alive-in.html
Was young teen buried alive in Devil's Playground? 1991 disappearance still baffles investigators
CENTRALIA -- Nearly 17 years after teenager Josh Mahaffey disappeared, a hypnotized woman carefully walked the rutted trails of the Devil's Playground searching for his grave...."
and
"....Police involved in both investigations today say it may never be known if Collins' story of witnessing the Satanic torture of Josh and his burial in the Devil's Playground can ever be proved or disproved.
During the Devil's Playground search in 2007 when she was under hypnosis, C was accompanied by a hypnotist hired by a prominent local couple who also trailed along, hoping to solve what is arguably the most baffling mystery in Clinton and Marion counties -- what happened to 15-year-old Josh Mahaffey....."
more at link
FWIW, this case reminds me of the disappearance of 17 year old Randy Leach of Kansas in April 1988. It is a well accepted fact that some sort of occult involvement was most likely at play in Randy's disappearance. The difference is that Randy's parents have received slim assistance from LE. I cannot help but believe that there were powerful people present at the party from where Randy disappeared.
The second article concerns the always disconcerting subject of severed animal parts in New York:
http://www.lohud.com/article/201011...n-New-Rochelle-may-be-tied-to-religious-rites
(Note: 3 pages plus comments)
Severed animal parts in New Rochelle may be tied to religious rites
"A woman taking an afternoon stroll at Glenwood Lake Park in New Rochelle [NY] came upon a startling sight: a severed goat head surrounded by the heads of four roosters.
The grisly Nov. 12 discovery came days after the bodies of two decapitated rams, male sheep, were found Nov. 7 at Ward Acres Park. The heads lay nearby....."
and
"....In March 2007, police made a grotesque discovery at St. John's Cemetery. Among the old gravestones they found an animal heart riddled with pins, a hollowed gourd and a photo of a smiling man in a suit.
A half-dozen of the headstones were toppled and adorned with more than a dozen candles, some containing strips of paper with names and dates scribbled on them...."
more at link
I have some reservations about this article. The reporter, Mr. Fitz-Gibbon, seems to link these discoveries to Santeria or Palo Mayombe but an expert in these religions disagrees, given the desecration of the animals' bodies. The reporter blithely states that:
"If you look back in the '70s ... Satanism was the big thing and everybody was dabbling in Satanism."
Really? Everybody? I disagree. The reporter seems to want to label this vandalism or teen pranks. He also seems to forget that we've always had Cubans and Africans living in the US. Santeria and Palo Mayombe are certainly not the "new thing". And surely, satanic ritual has not passed from our culture. All one need do is to google satanic meet-ups in just about any locale. New Rochelle and Yonkers certainly have their fair share of practitioners and active meet-ups.
There are also some interesting comments, especially the one concerning caves posted by Lamigrah1776 on 11/22 at 10:41 am. Interesting just how often German Shepherds seem to be mentioned. I did some research about Satan's Caves and found this:
http://www.hauntedhudsonvalley.net/devilscave/
This isn't far from where Ricky Kasso, "The Acid King", committed his self-professed satanic murder. He still has an active following on Myspace:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Kasso
http://www.myspace.com/rickykasso666
The whole subject of caves and rituals is an intriguing one. It plays into Randy Leach's disappearance (several witnesses stated that they'd seen his body hung in a cave) and seems to be linked to Son of Sam. Also, there's the suspicion that the Gates of Hell exist somewhere near Independence, MO--an area known for its caves.
http://www.bnd.com/2010/11/28/1492828/was-young-teen-buried-alive-in.html
Was young teen buried alive in Devil's Playground? 1991 disappearance still baffles investigators
CENTRALIA -- Nearly 17 years after teenager Josh Mahaffey disappeared, a hypnotized woman carefully walked the rutted trails of the Devil's Playground searching for his grave...."
and
"....Police involved in both investigations today say it may never be known if Collins' story of witnessing the Satanic torture of Josh and his burial in the Devil's Playground can ever be proved or disproved.
During the Devil's Playground search in 2007 when she was under hypnosis, C was accompanied by a hypnotist hired by a prominent local couple who also trailed along, hoping to solve what is arguably the most baffling mystery in Clinton and Marion counties -- what happened to 15-year-old Josh Mahaffey....."
more at link
FWIW, this case reminds me of the disappearance of 17 year old Randy Leach of Kansas in April 1988. It is a well accepted fact that some sort of occult involvement was most likely at play in Randy's disappearance. The difference is that Randy's parents have received slim assistance from LE. I cannot help but believe that there were powerful people present at the party from where Randy disappeared.
The second article concerns the always disconcerting subject of severed animal parts in New York:
http://www.lohud.com/article/201011...n-New-Rochelle-may-be-tied-to-religious-rites
(Note: 3 pages plus comments)
Severed animal parts in New Rochelle may be tied to religious rites
"A woman taking an afternoon stroll at Glenwood Lake Park in New Rochelle [NY] came upon a startling sight: a severed goat head surrounded by the heads of four roosters.
The grisly Nov. 12 discovery came days after the bodies of two decapitated rams, male sheep, were found Nov. 7 at Ward Acres Park. The heads lay nearby....."
and
"....In March 2007, police made a grotesque discovery at St. John's Cemetery. Among the old gravestones they found an animal heart riddled with pins, a hollowed gourd and a photo of a smiling man in a suit.
A half-dozen of the headstones were toppled and adorned with more than a dozen candles, some containing strips of paper with names and dates scribbled on them...."
more at link
I have some reservations about this article. The reporter, Mr. Fitz-Gibbon, seems to link these discoveries to Santeria or Palo Mayombe but an expert in these religions disagrees, given the desecration of the animals' bodies. The reporter blithely states that:
"If you look back in the '70s ... Satanism was the big thing and everybody was dabbling in Satanism."
Really? Everybody? I disagree. The reporter seems to want to label this vandalism or teen pranks. He also seems to forget that we've always had Cubans and Africans living in the US. Santeria and Palo Mayombe are certainly not the "new thing". And surely, satanic ritual has not passed from our culture. All one need do is to google satanic meet-ups in just about any locale. New Rochelle and Yonkers certainly have their fair share of practitioners and active meet-ups.
There are also some interesting comments, especially the one concerning caves posted by Lamigrah1776 on 11/22 at 10:41 am. Interesting just how often German Shepherds seem to be mentioned. I did some research about Satan's Caves and found this:
http://www.hauntedhudsonvalley.net/devilscave/
This isn't far from where Ricky Kasso, "The Acid King", committed his self-professed satanic murder. He still has an active following on Myspace:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Kasso
http://www.myspace.com/rickykasso666
The whole subject of caves and rituals is an intriguing one. It plays into Randy Leach's disappearance (several witnesses stated that they'd seen his body hung in a cave) and seems to be linked to Son of Sam. Also, there's the suspicion that the Gates of Hell exist somewhere near Independence, MO--an area known for its caves.
JohnnyChicago
Former Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2019
- Messages
- 274
- Reaction score
- 1,282
Surprised no one has posted for such a long time.
Thomas Kokoraleis was released in 2019.
Reputed 'Ripper Crew' member, killer released from prison
Thomas Kokoraleis was released in 2019.
Reputed 'Ripper Crew' member, killer released from prison