Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

[TexMex]

I understand your frustration. You've taken the time and care to think through the evidence, and you've reached a conclusion you think is solid, and should be obvious enough to anyone who is unbiased....right?

The best part of WS group sleuthing, IMO, is the sharing of ideas and perspectives I know I could never come up with on my own, no matter the (blush) no doubt thousands of hours I've spent on this case over the years. I've described my thinking process as looking into a kaleidoscope and twirling the end until all the pieces fall into a different pattern, then twirling again after someone here convinces me to consider a perhaps, or a new little tidbit of info falls into our laps.

But yah, sometimes the conclusions reached are final enough that there isn't any twirling or budging, just a drawing of parallel lines in the sand that are never going to intersect. That CAN be frustrating. Thank goodness just about then, every time , a new something or a revised something gets tossed out, and the lines in the sand are left behind.

We all bring our own everything to the table, right down to glorious photos of cotton fields and chicken fried steak and Big Bob holding burgers in a field.

The frustration is not from everyone brainstorming and having opinions. I've been on WS since 2004 and on CourtTv boards before that so I really do value that aspect of the interaction here. I truly appreciate every member and their contributions.

My frustration is about other things and doesn't really matter.

What matters is there WILL be fish for supper!

 

[Wing Ding]

The frustration is not from everyone brainstorming and having opinions. I've been on WS since 2004 and on CourtTv boards before that so I really do value that aspect of the interaction here. I truly appreciate every member and their contributions.

My frustration is about other things and doesn't really matter.

What matters is there WILL be fish for supper!

View attachment 100203

Hey... so what's the deal with brunch? I mean if brunch is a combination of breakfast and lunch, how comes there's no lupper? Or no linner?

 

[salberg7]

He may not have invited her there, though he could have been clued in via the phone contact in June that she "might drop by" on her "road trip".
Regardless, once she was there, they got in bed. She took pics of him. He took very graphic pictures of her. They had their KY, the braids he thought were hot.

He did shave and he did allow 9 minutes of shower pictures before she surprised him with a knife attack.
All of the pictures were verified by trained law enforcement and sworn to and admitted as evidence in a court of law.

Y'all give Jodi way too much credit. She was a password hacker, not a computer nor a camera specialist (she photographed two weddings)
At the same time, Travis would have been the first to admit he was not perfect. He sinned. He liked sex.

I'm not sure what purpose it serves to imagine him fending off her sexual advances or throwing her out...that demonstrably did not happen.

In his own words he describes how she knows that he will always take her back. She also knows that Mormons believe that it is a sin to hold a grudge against other men. In fact, the person who does not forgive someone has committed “the greater sin” compared to the original offense for which he is holding a grudge.

He also texted her that, again HIS words describing HIS feelings, he felt "addicted to you" and to "it".

After telling Taylor about this fight Taylor asked if he felt frightened. Travis reply was "no, Jodi is harmless"

JMO but ironically his momentary weakness or honesty if you will...sharing his feeling of "addiction to her/it" with a psychopath solidified her plan. She thinks about it. She steals the gun. Makes rental car arrangements. She knew (as he predicted) that he'd sleep with her if she showed up.

Why? Because he liked sex. Nothing wrong with that. He wasn't planning on romance. He hooked up with a consenting adult he already knew would let him do pretty much anything he wanted to do to her sexually. It had been said that she sexually was his kryptonite aka Achilles Heel. His friends and family have spoken about this as well.

It was a perfect storm. A nice, religious man whose Achilles Heel happened to be sex became involved and ,per Travis , addicted to a sexual relationship with a dangerous highly manipulative sociopath. Sociopaths use people's weaknesses against them. She knows he's forgiving. She knows he's going to allow her into his bed if she shows up with a bottle of KY.
So boom. She calls...HE calls back. The manipulation cycle begins again. She asks forgiveness and mentions she's going on a road trip and the rest is history.
JMO

Agree 100%. She is not smart nor complex. She didn't have the smarts to do all that fancy computer manipulation to change time stamps and transfer pictures. She wouldn't risk leaving and returning that day for multiple reasons. 3 Hours to hang out at a friend's house goes quickly.
She murdered Travis precisely when the time stamps stated she did. She had to get out of that house ASAP- she had no knowledge of when his roommates would be home & didn't have time to clean up all that blood. She hardly committed the perfect crime. She made several blunders - palm print, hair strands and leaving the camera. She really is not smart at all.
They were two consenting adults that were bound by one thing - sex. She knew he would let her in with a few sweet words and promise of a good romp in the hay. While Travis was relieved she had moved, he didn't hold a grudge and really didn't think she was as dangerous as she was. Who would? He made a mistake but it wasn't his fault he couldn't recognize this. For him it was fun, the sex was awesome, he knew she wasn't staying in Mesa, and they probably hooked up for old time's sake. He figured, why not?
He didn't hate her. He wasn't that type. They had the same type of relationship since they broke up in June 2007. He was a fun loving single guy who may have been conflicted with what he was doing with his killer due to his religion, but he behaved the same way with a few other women as well. Nothing wrong with that. He was conflicted yes, but not able to stop yet. Even Skye Hughes said she wouldn't let her sister date him. I personally think he just hadn't met "The One" yet and when he did would probably have settled down and become monogomous without any ado, but in the meantime was having fun, and sex, with not only the killer, but "grinding" with C.Lay, Brooke and who knows who else. His killer just made it too easy for him. They just did the sex tape not a month before.

 

[Wing Ding]

She hardly committed the perfect crime. She made several blunders - palm print, hair strands and leaving the camera. She really is not smart at all.

Not to mention:

• Her unaccounted-for, 36+/- hour "off-the-grid" gap in time between Tuesday night in Pasadena and finally showing up in Utah Thursday at around lunchtime that she'd somehow have to account for to L.E. (psst, Jodi... a believable story, please)

• Not thinking about the ten hours worth of extra miles she's putting on the odometer of her non-descript, white rental car driving in to and back out of Arizona.

• L.E. making the connection between her grandparents' stolen 25-Auto granny gun and the caliber gun TA was shot with.

&#8226; Several different stories to several different people about the cut on her left ring finger (<--- how apropos!)

Also... who was it that lived in Southern California that had a baby that Jodi claims she was going to "photograph"? (using her "professional" camera, no doubt) Was it Daryl's (sic) sister? I only heard Jodi say that she never heard back from that other woman, but is that yet another bs story of hers to give her an excuse to be in the L.A. area where she can easily a) leave for Utah via I-15 or b) leave for Mesa Arizona via I-10 to humanely kill someone? PS- I know the art gallery thing in San Diego fell through. What a shame.

 

[salberg7]

Hi salberg7


At first I thought his legs were crossed. At the time of trial it seems like it was figured out that it's just his right leg in the pic. IMO his bicycling had toned up his calf muscle and we see where the right calf meets the right thigh as he sits with heels pretty close to his butt in the shower.

Anyway, here is the pic

View attachment 100197

Well I'll be darned, now that I look at it with your perspective, I see this!
Thanks TexMex. That clears up quite a lot for me.

 

[salberg7]

They had a chat where he tore her apart,&#8221; Searle recalled. &#8220;He called me and told to me what he had said to her. I said, &#8216;Aren&#8217;t you afraid she&#8217;s going to hurt you?&#8217;&#8221;

Alexander responded, &#8220;No. She&#8217;s crazy, but she&#8217;s harmless.&#8221;


He did say things about if found dead, look at Jodi. Then after saying them he trots around a tour of the southwest with her on a road trip to the OKC convention. Why? Addiction to the sex was too much to pass up.
He forgave her slashing his tires..twice. Why? "addiction to" her and to "it". He had a compulsion to be with her despite the negative consequences. This is why he was so relieved when she moved back to Yreka. 1,000 miles was enough distance. He did not love her. IMO he was never going to make a trip to see her there. However, once she's in the same room with him he figured why not? "She's crazy but she's harmless".

I guess I'm frustrated because it's my opinion that in the text he's angry..yes. Calls her names, yep. But he's also heartbroken and anguished and speaking HIS truth. He's perplexed, he's angry at himself and admitting that despite all her antics and drama...he's powerless to quit the relationship altogether. He chose to use the words "addicted to you." I take him at his word at a vulnerable moment when it's obvious he was examining his soul.


IMO we can understand how June 4 happened. Travis told us.

Yet I'm addicted to it
And you know it
And you know I will take you back
You always know
You know I'll get pissed but I'll take you back

She killed him because the game was over for her. She knew he'd never see her as good enough for anything other than sex and late night phone calls. The only way for her to move forward, in her psychopathic mind, was for him to die. Once she decided that she used his goodness...his religion and his weakness...his self described "addiction" against him in a textbook sociopathic manipulation .

I give her plenty of credit in vindictiveness. I do not give her credit for any sort of technological savvy beyond hacking of passwords and turning off her cell phone while in the state of Arizona.

He got mixed up with a manipulative sociopath. She used the best and the worst of him against him. I've seen it happen. I'm still dealing with my grandsons sociopathic mother. I'm in the line to pick up my buddy from school right now. He just started first grade. He had a visit with his mom last weekend. She's manipulating a six year old basically telling him if he has fun with his dad or me or our family it means he doesn't love her. I don't know how a six year old is supposed to process that. All I know is Pa is picking him up, taking him for ice cream and then we're going fishing. But these people are sick and dangerous. Jodi is exactly where she belongs.

Yes, yes and yes...
I am so sorry that your grandson has to deal with a sociopath as a mother. To involve an innocent child in her ugly tug of war is awful. I abhor a parent that tries to turn a child against the other parent through manipulation and words. Six is such a cute age. I know that with the love your son and family give him, she won't win.

 

[TexMex]

Agree 100%. She is not smart nor complex. She didn't have the smarts to do all that fancy computer manipulation to change time stamps and transfer pictures. She wouldn't risk leaving and returning that day for multiple reasons. 3 Hours to hang out at a friend's house goes quickly.
She murdered Travis precisely when the time stamps stated she did. She had to get out of that house ASAP- she had no knowledge of when his roommates would be home & didn't have time to clean up all that blood. She hardly committed the perfect crime. She made several blunders - palm print, hair strands and leaving the camera. She really is not smart at all.
They were two consenting adults that were bound by one thing - sex. She knew he would let her in with a few sweet words and promise of a good romp in the hay. While Travis was relieved she had moved, he didn't hold a grudge and really didn't think she was as dangerous as she was. Who would? He made a mistake but it wasn't his fault he couldn't recognize this. For him it was fun, the sex was awesome, he knew she wasn't staying in Mesa, and they probably hooked up for old time's sake. He figured, why not?
He didn't hate her. He wasn't that type. They had the same type of relationship since they broke up in June 2007. He was a fun loving single guy who may have been conflicted with what he was doing with his killer due to his religion, but he behaved the same way with a few other women as well. Nothing wrong with that. He was conflicted yes, but not able to stop yet. Even Skye Hughes said she wouldn't let her sister date him. I personally think he just hadn't met "The One" yet and when he did would probably have settled down and become monogomous without any ado, but in the meantime was having fun, and sex, with not only the killer, but "grinding" with C.Lay, Brooke and who knows who else. His killer just made it too easy for him. They just did the sex tape not a month before.

Thank you.

 

[salberg7]

"The best part of WS group sleuthing, IMO, is the sharing of ideas and perspectives I know I could never come up with on my own, no matter the (blush) no doubt thousands of hours I've spent on this case over the years. I've described my thinking process as looking into a kaleidoscope and twirling the end until all the pieces fall into a different pattern, then twirling again after someone here convinces me to consider a perhaps, or a new little tidbit of info falls into our laps.

But yah, sometimes the conclusions reached are final enough that there isn't any twirling or budging, just a drawing of parallel lines in the sand that are never going to intersect. That CAN be frustrating. Thank goodness just about then, every time , a new something or a revised something gets tossed out, and the lines in the sand are left behind."

Agree H4M, and I am so grateful to have this forum to discuss this case with everyone here.

I watched Day 25 today thanks to the poster above. The way she looked at the jury was indeed strange - eyes half closed as if she was in a trance - she actually turns her chair to face them. Then she gives Juan the "shark eye" and proceeds to give him lots of attitude. Crocodile tears when giving her version of events. Jumped up 8-9 ft to get Travis' gun (after denying he had a gun during her first conversation with DF) whilst not disturbing anything on the shelves.
Diabolical. And of course, her "fog".

 

[TexMex]

Yes, yes and yes...
I am so sorry that your grandson has to deal with a sociopath as a mother. To involve an innocent child in her ugly tug of war is awful. I abhor a parent that tries to turn a child against the other parent through manipulation and words. Six is such a cute age. I know that with the love your son and family give him, she won't win.

Thanks salberg

After we caught fish we drove around to play some game called Pokemon Go that he put on my phone. There were stops all along the sea wall and parks downtown so he really had fun. He tells me on the way home "Pa, you're my best friend".
She's only had visits again (not supervised) since June. My son says now my grandson wets the bed. I told my little guy if he ever wants to talk I'm always here.

The manipulation by this type of person is unreal. Like Jodi, this woman manipulates grown men just for sport. The fact she's doing it to her own son is sick.

 

[neesaki]

Sorry if this has already been brought up, and I'm way behind here so probably it has been, but the Oxygen channel's "It Takes A Killer" episode 4 is "Jodi Arias". FYI

 

[TrialWatcher]

The frustration is not from everyone brainstorming and having opinions. I've been on WS since 2004 and on CourtTv boards before that so I really do value that aspect of the interaction here. I truly appreciate every member and their contributions.

My frustration is about other things and doesn't really matter.

What matters is there WILL be fish for supper!

View attachment 100203

TexMex, your contribution and evaluation of the evidence has my appreciation and respect. You deal with frustrations in an exemplary way. Your knowledge and attention to detail is an asset to this forum. Most of all, you recognise the difference between evidence and opinion and give appropriate weight to evidence when discussing theory.


PS: Your grandson is a lucky boy to have a strong family capable of dealing with such issues.

 

[Hope4More]

I can't page up or down. I keep getting Shockwave Flash warning.

Is it possible that part of the problem is the large number of posts in this thread, including many with photos and video? Maybe it's time to request a new thread?

 

[pocketaccent]

Disable it? I often get that and find that disabling it usually doesn't cause much trouble unless you like watching video clips. I find stopping it helps stop many of the ads these kind of forums like to bury us in.

Thank you. I found out it had something to do with Google Chrome. I disabled it but the problem is not fixed completely. It happens only while I'm on this site.

 

[pocketaccent]

It really is not fair to focus only on his 'addiction to ' when speculating T's state of mind on June 4th.
Let's not forget "You are the worst thing that ever happened to me".

If one focuses only on 'I'm addicted to you', then it is no coincidence the resulting storyline on June 4th is very similar, almost equal to what the said happened at trial (except the murder part). T waits for her, they sleep in his bed, have sex in his bed, have sex again in the office, she convinces him to take shower photos...

If one also considers 'You are the worst thing that ever happened to me' to the mix as well the fact the came stealthily, then the sequence of events can change quite a bit.

 

[TexMex]

It really is not fair to focus only on his 'addiction to ' when speculating T's state of mind on June 4th.
Let's not forget "You are the worst thing that ever happened to me".

If one focuses only on 'I'm addicted to you', then it is no coincidence the resulting storyline on June 4th is very similar, almost equal to what the said happened at trial (except the murder part). T waits for her, they sleep in his bed, have sex in his bed, have sex again in the office, she convinces him to take shower photos...

If one also considers 'You are the worst thing that ever happened to me' to the mix as well the fact the came stealthily, then the sequence of events can change quite a bit.

Being addicted is one of the worst things that can happen to people. Having a compulsion to continue a toxic relationship despite the negative consequences has to be a miserable feeling.

Yet I'm addicted to it
And you know it
And you know I will take you back
You always know
You know I'll get pissed but I'll take you back

 

[Hope4More]

Appeals Update, through COA docket entries dated August 19 (most recent entries). (posting this here and in appeals thread).


1. 25 trial transcripts/materials are now due, all by September 15. The due date for 23 of the 25 transcripts has been extended twice; the latest granted requests for transcripts/materials were given the same due date of those twice extended.

2. New Motions received and/or ruled upon:

August 16. Motion to supplement 10 and 7. Granted. Motion to supplement 8 and 9. Granted in part.

August 19. Received. Motion to Vacate the Notice of (trial record) Completion.
-------------------------------------

The new supplemental transcripts granted:

April 15, 2013. 1:48-2:26AM

April 16, 2013. 9:58 AM

For jury voir dire. 12/18/2012.
-----------------------------------------------------

1. Granted Supplemental Transcript for April 15, 2013.

(In context of the entire trial day of April 15).

The 15th was spent on an Evidentiary Hearing on DT’s Motion for Mistrial due to Attorney Misconduct and Witness Intimidation, plus a Daubert hearing.

9:43-9:51. Hearing on Attorney Misconduct: Grave Wong testified (with attorney present; JM signing photograph? One exhibit is introduced).

9:51- 11:07. Daubert Hearing: Bryan Nuemister (on the TA’s eyeball inanity testimony), 4 exhibits introduced.

11:07- 12:00. Evidentiary hearing on Motion for Mistrial due to Attorney Misconduct resumes. One exhibit is introduced.

JSS ruled immediately following the introduction of this exhibit that “the Court finds the Defendant has not established any trial error and no basis for mistrial.”

JSS; “The Court further finds the State was not in any way outside the bounds of proper behavior in the sealed hearing re Alyce LaViolette. “

Next, discussion held about the Defendant’s Twitter account. JSS noted the defendant was in Sheriff Joe’s custody and that the Court “won’t take action at this time.”
Motion for mistrial denied.
Recess, 12:00 PM.

(Requested transcript: April 15, 2013. 1:48-2:26AM)

1:48-1:52 PM. Meeting in chambers. Ordered sealed. Mtg concludes at 1:52pm.

1:53 -2:00. Discussion held, including with victim’s next of kin. Concludes at 2:00PM; minutes are not sealed.

Court reconvenes at 2: 26. (Nothing on record for 2:26-2:37).

2:37-3:00. More on DT’s attempt to get eyeball testimony. JSS ruling: inadmissible, on the grounds it wasn’t relevant, and precluded, basis for both findings-Rule 401 of Rules for Evidence.
-------------------------------------------------

Transcript #2. April 16, 2013.

The transcript requested was for the bench conference held between 9:58-10:02, before the jury was called in, the defense rested, and the State’s rebuttal case began with Dr. DeMarte on the stand.
------------------------------------

Transcript #3. Jury voir dire, December 18, 2012.

(Voir dire began on December 10, and concluded on December 20. Counsel didn’t exercise their right to preemptive strikes until December 20, 2012).

Individual jurors were voir dired on the 18th.

Removed for cause: Jurors 269, 303, 319, 324, 340, 367, 373.

DT makes oral motion to exclude juror 1.

Removed for cause: Jurors 220, 194, 168, 192.

Juror 58 says he recognizes JW.

Juror 158 is excused for cause, but remains in the courtroom.

Juror 188 is told to remain in the courtroom.

Juror 158 is asked to return on December 20.

Jurors 177 and juror 1 are discussed. Both are dismissed.

Jurors 227, 237, and 160 are removed for cause.

Jurors 248 and 257 to asked to remain and are discussed; both are asked to return on December 20.

Final jury (as of December 20, 2013): Jurors 12, 21, 29, 33, 49, 62, 88, 115, 144, 161, 172, 174, 187, 199, 202, 226, 233.
----------------------------------------------------------

Note: Juror 158 being dismissed for cause but then asked to return is kind of funky, but 158 didn’t make the list of final jurors, so I can’t see why that would be an appeals issue, unless the DT argued it had to use up a preemptive strike to keep him/her off, an argument that I don’t see on the record for December 20.


Best guess: her attorneys asked for the complete voir dire record as part of an excessive publicity-due process argument, and the COA granted a supplement of just one day of voir dire, the portion during which individual jurors were discussed individually and kept or dismissed for cause, which no doubt included being influenced by pre-trial publicity.
-------------------------------------

Last, about the Motion to vacate trial record completion date. The trial completion date marks the official date when the clock starts ticking for opening briefs to be due.


Her attorneys have already been granted what amounts to an open due date for their opening brief, given the COA gave them until November to make requests to supplement the trial record, and months beyond that in reality for their receipt of granted transcripts, plus the standard time allotted for a brief to be prepared.

I don’t know how routine their request is to vacate the completion date, but it appears they are either requesting yet more time beyond what they’ve already been granted, or they are stating for the record that required transcripts were left out of what was designated as the completed record, and are requesting that due dates reflect that omission.

 

[Hope4More]

It really is not fair to focus only on his 'addiction to ' when speculating T's state of mind on June 4th.
Let's not forget "You are the worst thing that ever happened to me".

If one focuses only on 'I'm addicted to you', then it is no coincidence the resulting storyline on June 4th is very similar, almost equal to what the said happened at trial (except the murder part). T waits for her, they sleep in his bed, have sex in his bed, have sex again in the office, she convinces him to take shower photos...

If one also considers 'You are the worst thing that ever happened to me' to the mix as well the fact the came stealthily, then the sequence of events can change quite a bit.

I agree.

But...since we're back to repeating the addicted thing as if it is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, then here is a repetition of that refrain's counterpoint, which provides an entirely different view.

Begin with-- relationship between sociopath and a walking wounded, end date of phase 2 came when she left Mesa.

Phase 3- TA begins to extricate himself, think more clearly, process what happened to him. He begins to express his anger towards her more freely, now that he doesn't have to fear she's going to kill herself if he moves on, as she has threatened, repeatedly, since early 2007.

interprets this as literally threatening, and begins plans to retaliate.

Phase 4. Through mid-May. manufactures stuff, ups her snooping, pretends to be other women online, all to trap TA. TA , at wits end, finally tells her flat out that he's going to retaliate, no more mercy, he's done with her lying and intrusions. Its May 9. He retaliates by staging a conversation with a fictional woman, knowing the is listening in. He catches her in the act. He's SCARED to confront her (Regan assures him that the Heavenly Father will be watching over him as he does so) but he does. She confessed. Part way. He thinks he "won."

For him , winning is getting her to stop. He thinks she will.

She doesn't. She retaliates by perhaps beginning to plan to kill him, and meanwhile, in any case , by upping her threats against him, stolen phone, trip to Bishop...

THEN CAME MAY 26.

May 26 was, IMO, about TA thinking he still had the upper hand, then having her trump him with an unanticipated evil, and her playing him as she rolled out each part of it, bit by bit. He rails against her, in part because he was SURE she'd back off, that she would absolutely be humiliated enough to STOP. She keeps on. Which is why he krpt asking her- WHY DO YOU HATE ME?

Towards the VERY END of a VERY long exchange, TA uses that word addicted, AFTER she has used it.

WHY does he use that word then? After hours and DAYS straight of telling her and acting out the opposite? And why does he preface saying that with the words - YOU WIN ?

And what is happening in their exchange when he says that?

 

[Hope4More]

She is toying with him right then, suggesting she might at last come clean. That's factual. He has refused to speak with her by phone until she comes clean. That's factual.

The rest is interpretation. IMO, given all that context, including that it is hours into this exchange, he is playing his last card. He's letting her think she's won, anything to get her to admit what she has done, because her lies are CRAZY MAKING to him.

(TA says to her- after addiction and her hints she'll come clean: "call me right now. I want to hear it ALL. It should make you feel better. Right? Right? Right? Right? Right?"

IMO, at that point, even then, he might have been willing to forgive her, not because he was addicted, but because he was willing to do whatever it took to make her-- STOP! Forgiving her meaning- letting it all go, because that was in his power to do to have it all END.

(BTW, Travis did not blame her on May 26 for their sexual activity, the topic around which most of the chat revolved, indirectly. He in fact explicitly said otherwise- thst he wasn't angry with her for it, and that he was equally responsible. It was the who promptly said and kept running with the torment that she in fact WAS to blame).

So, he allowed the next part to play out by phone , thinking he would hear a confession. He did NOT. Instead, she dropped her last bomb. He hung up a minute into that call. He told Taylor later that it was in that call he told her--- this is DONE. No more, no more , no more.

One one hand, he acted on that no more by NOT apologizing, NOT getting in touch with her, NOT responding to her interim alibi - producing contacts with him, EXCEPT for several which, IMO, she deliberately worded to be interpreted by him as having to do with her May 26 threat, including that June 2 call.

On the other hand, IMO, his bottom line about her hadn't changed. All he wanted was for her to STOP depriving him of his privacy, emotional well being, his prospects for marriage, his ability to be a good Mormon.

That's a different thing than hating her so absolutely that nothing she could say would make a difference. She knew what he needed her to do, and IMO that's what she did on June 2. .. confess, tell him she had moved on to Ryan. Those 2 things would, in TA's mind, be enough to make her STOP, at least, IMO.

Not throwing her out on June 4th wasn't due to addiction, but perhaps to TA's need to see the best in people, or perhaps because he figured he had just one last toll to pay to be rid of her, or perhaps because she was acting manic or not quite right and he was apprehensive, or fearful, even, of doing anything at all to trigger her, which he knew from experience could be anything at all, but rejection the one thing certain to make her lose it.

And, in her mind? "I still won, brat" says it all.

 

[geevee]

Wonderful examination and conclusions, Hope - it bothers me to no end that if it weren't for the time stamps, no one would ever believe he would take pics of her uglies, have nookie with her, or even allow her into his house after their last communications, it goes so contrary to what transpired between them in those last days.

I have to find a way to prove those time stamps are wrong. But I have no means to do so, don't even have the originals. lol

 

[pocketaccent]

She is toying with him right then, suggesting she might at last come clean. That's factual. He has refused to speak with her by phone until she comes clean. That's factual.

The rest is interpretation. IMO, given all that context, including that it is hours into this exchange, he is playing his last card. He's letting her think she's won, anything to get her to admit what she has done, because her lies are CRAZY MAKING to him.

(TA says to her- after addiction and her hints she'll come clean: "call me right now. I want to hear it ALL. It should make you feel better. Right? Right? Right? Right? Right?"

IMO, at that point, even then, he might have been willing to forgive her, not because he was addicted, but because he was willing to do whatever it took to make her-- STOP! Forgiving her meaning- letting it all go, because that was in his power to do to have it all END.

(BTW, Travis did not blame her on May 26 for their sexual activity, the topic around which most of the chat revolved, indirectly. He in fact explicitly said otherwise- thst he wasn't angry with her for it, and that he was equally responsible. It was the who promptly said and kept running with the torment that she in fact WAS to blame).

So, he allowed the next part to play out by phone , thinking he would hear a confession. He did NOT. Instead, she dropped her last bomb. He hung up a minute into that call. He told Taylor later that it was in that call he told her--- this is DONE. No more, no more , no more.

One one hand, he acted on that no more by NOT apologizing, NOT getting in touch with her, NOT responding to her interim alibi - producing contacts with him, EXCEPT for several which, IMO, she deliberately worded to be interpreted by him as having to do with her May 26 threat, including that June 2 call.

On the other hand, IMO, his bottom line about her hadn't changed. All he wanted was for her to STOP depriving him of his privacy, emotional well being, his prospects for marriage, his ability to be a good Mormon.

That's a different thing than hating her so absolutely that nothing she could say would make a difference. She knew what he needed her to do, and IMO that's what she did on June 2. .. confess, tell him she had moved on to Ryan. Those 2 things would, in TA's mind, be enough to make her STOP, at least, IMO.

Not throwing her out on June 4th wasn't due to addiction, but perhaps to TA's need to see the best in people, or perhaps because he figured he had just one last toll to pay to be rid of her, or perhaps because she was acting manic or not quite right and he was apprehensive, or fearful, even, of doing anything at all to trigger her, which he knew from experience could be anything at all, but rejection the one thing certain to make her lose it.

And, in her mind? "I still won, brat" says it all.

Thank you Hope4More!!!!!!!!

You have superbly illustrated all other facts to consider in addition to T's use of the word 'addiction' when searching for the truth.
:yourock:
(Are those post-it notes in your kaleidoscope?)