Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

[pocketaccent]

As for part 2...the whens of plotting & connections.

I believe that the had murderous thoughts about TA and Lisa and even Mimi, before she snooped enough to know Mimi wasn't a threat. I agree with JM that thoughts became concrete premeditation around the time she called Brewer about the gas cans (I believe it likely was a bit earlier, actually, by mid-May).

I sure do agree that the was plotting before then, and manufacturing a trail, or just flat out extortion "evidence."

Towards what precise end, I'm not sure even the was certain about on any given day, as I think she was unpleasantly astonished -and livid- that her control over TA lessened significantly with each passing day & each of her outrageous acts.

I'm pretty sure I've said this explicitly before, but if not...

Unfortunately, I think it very possible that Travis acted exactly as he threatened to do in early May: to take the gloves off in how he responded to her escalating insanity.

In April 2007, as she was driving in defeat & humiliation back to Yreka, he threatened to expose her as a psycho. IMO she clearly responded to that threat by manufacturing an online record (and sex tape) that she no doubt believed was insurance against his acting on that threat.

The intensity of threat & counter threat increased beginning in early May. I really believe that TA was desperate to make the simply STOP, to leave him in peace, to not mess with his emotions & life any more. He had tried every which way, and every other thing, but she just would not.

Hence, the NA55 epic call. Didn't work. More crazy, hence his acting still further on his threat to expose her by ..actually exposing her, especially in those mid-May texts with his friend he was sure the was online reading as he wrote them.

To the , I think, it tipped the scales all the way to murder, but to cold calculated murder, to the only way she knew she could "win" against him. ("I still beat you...")

Agree to everything you wrote.
But I also believe the forged letters were written during this period. To win.

 

[Hope4More]

Here's a scenario that connects lots of dots. A purely intellectual scenario, as in, it connects the dots, but I wouldn't even call it (one of my many & ever changing) my actual theory.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the did indeed forge at least several or some or even many of those letters before she was arrested. (I can't go so far as to posit she wrote the pedo letters that early on, but no matter).

The letters were addressed from TA to her. Under what circumstances did she plan on revealing the existence of the letters? She set up the sex tape reveal before murdering him...stolen phone, "would be "horrific" if anyone found it & heard what was on it," she wrote in her journal, likely after the murder, but either way.

But, the letters? How would they be accidentally revealed? She didn't make sure they were in that box of red herrings & misleading "evidence" she put together for the cops to find, and she wrote absolutely nothing about physical abuse, much less letters, in those multiple journal entries she definitely wrote for the police to read.

Ok, then. What if her original murder plan was to make it look like TA committed suicide? That he shot himself in the shower, AFTER having sex with her that day, because he could no longer live with the guilt of pretending to be a devout Mormon, all the while continuing to corrupt Saint , and having sex with her even after he had confessed to his Bishop? That the rage he expressed on on May 26 (which she had provoked him into) was really self-hatred, which he had taken out on her before - sometimes physically.

As he said that day- he didn't care anymore, so why not just go ahead and destroy each other?

One way of interpreting her actions & words in April & May is that she was constructing a fiction that SHE had moved on, regained her spirituality, felt sooooo much better after leaving Mesa, but that poor conflicted obsessed TA just couldn't let go, even though he knew he was destroying his chance of finding and marrying a good Mormon bride.

Revealing the sex tape to him on May 26 was intended to cause him more real despair, in the hopes he would confide in friends what he said when he realized he'd blown it with Lisa- "...(I've screwed up my life so bad, "I want to blow my head off."

According to the 's January 2007 journal, he used those exact words to her directly,in January, when he was underwater with his mortgage.

 

[pocketaccent]

Last couple of (minor) thoughts:

1. I don't believe TA actually spoke with anyone connected to the LDS board, and even if he had, I don't believe they would have investigated. It's a big board, and privacy laws apply in any case.

From the texts, I think TA did ask Regan to investigate, and I think Regan was involved with the NA55 call- as in, perhaps monitoring the 's activity on the LDS board during & after the call.

The would have had no way of being certain whether or not TA had exposed her to LDS board-related folk, but would have been furious & felt threatened either way.

2." Screwed the pooch" couldn't have referred to the LDS thing anyway, because her peddling that line (and lie, IMO) was wrapped up in her DEMAND that he call her about something that he didn't know about, that concerned him too, that was just oh so serious, for real.


3. The sure was adamant that TA send her a written note. Nagged him repeatedly that he do so. JM's book has a photo of the note he sent. Interesting that she kept it, the original, even though it was completely bland, impersonal, and self-help-y, and not a tad romantic or even fond.

I think you are probably right (nice insight) that she was so persistent about it because she wanted to establish that TA actually DID write, not just email or text.

Why? Another possibility is that if she was thinking of forging letters, what she may have had in mind was forging a letter from Travis to herself that was all about sex & desire for her (consistent with all the other "evidence" she was manufacturing around that time), OR, sending a forged letter from TA to Lisa.

Umm, not sure if I agree on 1 and 2. TA texted to Maria M that LDS linkup contacted TA and all of Maria M's friends. Why would LDS contact them? I think TA was able to report Maria M's activity, much like we can report violative post on this site.

On 3- Whatever the type of letters she was desiring to forge, forging letters was on her mind, I agree. I think it was important for her to possess several love letters from TA and also for him to visit her in Yreka so that she can 'prove' his undying love for her and endless physical abuse.

 

[Hope4More]

Umm, not sure if I agree on 1 and 2. TA texted to Maria M that LDS linkup contacted TA and all of Maria M's friends. Why would LDS contact them? I think TA was able to report Maria M's activity, much like we can report violative post on this site.

On 3- Whatever the type of letters she was desiring to forge, forging letters was on her mind, I agree. I think it was important for her to possess several love letters from TA and also for him to visit her in Yreka so that she can 'prove' his undying love for her and endless physical abuse.

I don't remember the texts about LDS they way you do, actually. My memory is he told her that thing about England (which obviously wasn't true/accurate), and accused her ("Maria") of not being who she said she was, to just come clean and he would understand. And then texted Regan that he had caught the in that lie, she confessed to it, etc.

If he did tell the the LDS had contacted him, iMO that wasn't true, and was just a part of his days-long, putting an end to it, campaign of messing with the , hard, for her to understand how her messing with him felt. Not really revenge, but a bare knuckles, determined approach to make her stop.

 

[pocketaccent]

Here's a scenario that connects lots of dots. A purely intellectual scenario, as in, it connects the dots, but I wouldn't even call it (one of my many & ever changing) my actual theory.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the did indeed forge at least several or some or even many of those letters before she was arrested. (I can't go so far as to posit she wrote the pedo letters that early on, but no matter).

The letters were addressed from TA to her. Under what circumstances did she plan on revealing the existence of the letters? She set up the sex tape reveal before murdering him...stolen phone, "would be "horrific" if anyone found it & heard what was on it," she wrote in her journal, likely after the murder, but either way.

But, the letters? How would they be accidentally revealed? She didn't make sure they were in that box of red herrings & misleading "evidence" she put together for the cops to find, and she wrote absolutely nothing about physical abuse, much less letters, in those multiple journal entries she definitely wrote for the police to read.

Ok, then. What if her original murder plan was to make it look like TA committed suicide? That he shot himself in the shower, AFTER having sex with her that day, because he could no longer live with the guilt of pretending to be a devout Mormon, all the while continuing to corrupt Saint , and having sex with her even after he had confessed to his Bishop? That the rage he expressed on on May 26 (which she had provoked him into) was really self-hatred, which he had taken out on her before - sometimes physically.

As he said that day- he didn't care anymore, so why not just go ahead and destroy each other?

One way of interpreting her actions & words in April & May is that she was constructing a fiction that SHE had moved on, regained her spirituality, felt sooooo much better after leaving Mesa, but that poor conflicted obsessed TA just couldn't let go, even though he knew he was destroying his chance of finding and marrying a good Mormon bride.

Revealing the sex tape to him on May 26 was intended to cause him more real despair, in the hopes he would confide in friends what he said when he realized he'd blown it with Lisa- "...(I've screwed up my life so bad, "I want to blow my head off."

According to the 's January 2007 journal, he used those exact words to her directly,in January, when he was underwater with his mortgage.

She absolutely did not want LEs to find out about the forged letters. My belief is that she was going to reveal them at the right time (to destroy TA's reputation forever) but when she decided to murder him instead, those letters had be kept out of the equation, because she didn't want to be connected to the abuse victim killing her abuser scenario.

And she didn't write about them in her journals for the same reason.
It is pretty convoluted.

 

[pocketaccent]

I don't remember the texts about LDS they way you do, actually. My memory is he told her that thing about England (which obviously wasn't true/accurate), and accused her ("Maria") of not being who she said she was, to just come clean and he would understand. And then texted Regan that he had caught the in that lie, she confessed to it, etc.

If he did tell the the LDS had contacted him, iMO that wasn't true, and was just a part of his days-long, putting an end to it, campaign of messing with the , hard, for her to understand how it her messing with felt. Not really revenge, but a bare knuckles, determined approach to make her stop.

Let me try find the text messages between them on that day. Will post later.

 

[Pasasana]

I agree, if you mean the self-jollying happened in late March when I think the sex photos were taken. I believe TA never knew JA was in his house until the middle of shower on June 4th.

I have a question about the photos - If they were made earlier, what about her brown hair? I thought she didn't darken it until her road trip?

 

[pocketaccent]

I have a question about the photos - If they were made earlier, what about her brown hair? I thought she didn't darken it until her road trip?

She dyed her her brown around March 20ish. It is in text messages between JA and TA. By May, the color faded but dyed again on June 3(anyway, that's what I believe).

 

[Hope4More]

To finish up the staged suicide plot gone wrong scenario:

One chief repudiation of the no-sex that day/photos were planted theory has been- why would she deliberately incriminate herself by putting photos in his camera that would prove she was there that day?

In this scenario, it was precisely her plan to prove that she WAS there, and that they DID have sex. And then she left, not realizing that this final transgression had driven him to suicide. Perhaps she had been practicing forging his handwriting because she originally intended the police to find a suicide note, conveniently timed/dated to prove she had long since left.

I'm positive her plans were foiled/changed that day in many ways, great and small. In this scenario (and in all of mine, actually) TA didn't get into the shower first thing like he always did, but late in the afternoon, which caused her to have to rush multiple parts of her plan after the fact, and perhaps during.

TA didn't die quickly and conveniently in the shower- perhaps she handed the gun to him with one hand, and threatened him with a knife in the other? But instead of getting with her program, he lunged at her, and she ended up stabbing him multiple times & thus destroying any possibility of it looking like a suicide..

Not a suicide = the sex photos had to be deleted. Not a suicide= the shower photos had to be deleted as well, and the camera destroyed. Suicide = the sex photos left on, the shower photos deleted, the camera not destroyed.

Just a dot connecting theory, anyway.

 

[pocketaccent]

Let me try find the text messages between them on that day. Will post later.

Ummm, I found them in my notes, but concerned about posting the whole series of texts. Don't want to get in trouble again with our lovely Beth. But TA definitely texted 'LDS Linkup contacted me and I think all your friends'.

 

[geevee]

She dyed her her brown around March 20ish. It is in text messages between JA and TA. By May, the color faded but dyed again on June 3(anyway, that's what I believe).

Yes, she did the original darkening (from bleached blonde) in later March, I believe she posted pics of it on her MySpace and texted TA to see what he thought about it. If memory serves, anyhow. There are also other pics of it beginning to fade (had them on my other computer but available online).

In the pics she took of herself in the rental car you can see how much darker her hair is, which is another reason to believe the nudes were not taken on June 4th, her hair is much darker the day before (June 3rd) than on the 4th, in that low-light room it should have looked almost black, not fading brunette.

 

[geevee]

To finish up the staged suicide plot gone wrong scenario:

One chief repudiation of the no-sex that day/photos were planted theory has been- why would she deliberately incriminate herself by putting photos in his camera that would prove she was there that day?

In this scenario, it was precisely her plan to prove that she WAS there, and that they DID have sex. And then she left, not realizing that this final transgression had driven him to suicide. Perhaps she had been practicing forging his handwriting because she originally intended the police to find a suicide note, conveniently timed/dated to prove she had long since left.

I'm positive her plans were foiled/changed that day in many ways, great and small. In this scenario (and in all of mine, actually) TA didn't get into the shower first thing like he always did, but late in the afternoon, which caused her to have to rush multiple parts of her plan after the fact, and perhaps during.

TA didn't die quickly and conveniently in the shower- perhaps she handed the gun to him with one hand, and threatened him with a knife in the other? But instead of getting with her program, he lunged at her, and she ended up stabbing him multiple times & thus destroying any possibility of it looking like a suicide..

Not a suicide = the sex photos had to be deleted. Not a suicide= the shower photos had to be deleted as well, and the camera destroyed. Suicide = the sex photos left on, the shower photos deleted, the camera not destroyed.

Just a dot connecting theory, anyway.

Interesting theory but the only problem with the nudes is they had to have been deleted before the shower pics were taken, as the shower pics overwrote the metadata of the nudes, making it so Melendez could only pull off the thumbnail files of them, which is why most lacked the timestamps, those files were also crushed by the shower pics. .

This is a good discussion.

 

[pocketaccent]

Yes, she did the original darkening (from bleached blonde) in later March, I believe she posted pics of it on her MySpace and texted TA to see what he thought about it. If memory serves, anyhow. There are also other pics of it beginning to fade (had them on my other computer but available online).

In the pics she took of herself in the rental car you can see how much darker her hair is, which is another reason to believe the nudes were not taken on June 4th, her hair is much darker the day before (June 3rd) than on the 4th, in that low-light room it should have looked almost black, not fading brunette.

There really is zero chance TA would have picture taking sex then spend 4 hours with JA before posing for shower. No way, no how. Not after what went down from mid-May on.

 

[geevee]

There really is zero chance TA would have picture taking sex then spend 4 hours with JA before posing for shower. No way, no how. Not after what went down from mid-May on.

Agreed, he was plenty bright enough to know had he ever bedded down with her again he'd never ever be rid of her. And being rid of her was tops on his priority list.

 

[Hope4More]

Interesting theory but the only problem with the nudes is they had to have been deleted before the shower pics were taken, as the shower pics overwrote the metadata of the nudes, making it so Melendez could only pull off the thumbnail files of them, which is why most lacked the timestamps, those files were also crushed by the shower pics. .

This is a good discussion.

Well, there is that.

Though, it's possible she didn't know that TA had found the sex photos on his camera & managed to delete them without her knowing he had.

Or, it's possible IMO to believe they did take the photos that day- both seem so grim in them, so utterly joyless, so, to believe she did manipulate him into taking them, on his camera, so he would be lulled into believing he could just delete them, as he intended to just delete her from his life.

Honestly, I don't believe my own connect the dot theory, lol. I believe she hated him and wanted to destroy him, and that it's possible she had more evil, nasty plans than we know about, and even that she never deviated from pure hatred after leaving Mesa (or even before), but given a thousand different analyses of a thousand bits of in -the -weeds minutia about a thousand different aspects of timing and available evidence and my read on her pathologies and more?

I revert back to that IMO the letters were forged after the fact, and that she is despicable enough to be so "inspired" by the suicide of a "friend's" brother that she even based her pedo forgeries on his suicide letter.

Still and always a , in any theory.

 

[geevee]

Well, there is that.

Though, it's possible she didn't know that TA had found the sex photos on his camera & managed to delete them without her knowing he had.

Or, it's possible IMO to believe they did take the photos that day- both seem so grim in them, so utterly joyless, so, to believe she did manipulate him into taking them, on his camera, so he would be lulled into believing he could just delete them, as he intended to just delete her from his life.

Honestly, I don't believe my own connect the dot theory, lol. I believe she hated him and wanted to destroy him, and that it's possible she had more evil, nasty plans than we know about, and even that she never deviated from pure hatred after leaving Mesa (or even before), but given a thousand different analyses of a thousand bits of in -the -weeds minutia about a thousand different aspects of timing and available evidence and my read on her pathologies and more?

I revert back to that IMO the letters were forged after the fact, and that she is despicable enough to be so "inspired" by the suicide of a "friend's" brother that she even based her pedo forgeries on his suicide letter.

Still and always a , in any theory.

^ Truer words were never spoke.

I too believe she hated him from at least March on (and maybe quite a lot before) and wanted nothing more than to destroy him completely. Shoot, the hating may have started when he broke up with her (although I don't think he ever really thought of her as his "girlfriend") and she went from manic love to love-hate to full on hate.

Yeah, those nudes are like neither even wanted to be there, much less having a rockin' sex party.

 

[Hope4More]

^ Truer words were never spoke.

I too believe she hated him from at least March on (and maybe quite a lot before) and wanted nothing more than to destroy him completely. Shoot, the hating may have started when he broke up with her (although I don't think he ever really thought of her as his "girlfriend") and she went from manic love to love-hate to full on hate.

Yeah, those nudes are like neither even wanted to be there, much less having a rockin' sex party.

Her journals give some bit of insight into her state of mind in mid to late 2007, early 2008. Magical thinking ( she'd will into existence what she wanted) mixed with extreme rage, mixed with role playing a Mormon & a PPL'er, mixed with unmistakable boredom with both those roles, but most constant...keeping on with TA TA, TA, even when she would occasionally acknowledge that keeping after TA wasn't the best practical solution to her immediate problem of no money- no ability to hold onto a job- no roots in Mesa- most of TA's friends openly scorning & rejecting her- no guarantees she'd bag the boy, no matter how hard & much she plotted & schemed & spied & intruded & manipulated. In short, no guarantee of winning.

In January 2O08 he told her to go home. In March 2008 he insisted she go home. He didn't marry Lisa, but instead of turning to her, without skipping a beat & egged on by Sky, he chased after the impossible MiMi instead.


In April he wanted to invite Mimi on a ROAD TRIP! And to the PPL BALL! And....to Cancun?! Hers, hers alone, GD him to hell and back, and in April he stopped making it possible financially for her to stay, and didn't even invite her to stay at his house, even when she told him how uncomfortable it was to sleep in the moving van.

And on top of that he was going to expose her as a psycho? In her post verdict words- he was threatening to take HER life away?

Yes, hate. Hard core, difficult to conceal hatred, which oozed out anyway in not a few of her otherwise syrupy & stroking his ego texts to him...

 

[Hope4More]

Ummm, I found them in my notes, but concerned about posting the whole series of texts. Don't want to get in trouble again with our lovely Beth. But TA definitely texted 'LDS Linkup contacted me and I think all your friends'.

Thanks for looking that up. In which text conversation did he say that to "Maria"? There were only 2-3, right? Including one right after the NA55 texting finally ended, and one IIRC, a few days later?

 

[pocketaccent]

Thanks for looking that up. In which text conversation did he say that to "Maria"? There were only 2-3, right? Including one right after the NA55 texting finally ended, and one IIRC, a few days later?

(All text information came from Beth Karas on Crime subscription website. Subscribe to her website for complete texts and more)

OK, in 2015 or 2016?, Beth Karas' moderator told me that as long as I give credit to her site as the source, I can paraphrase the content. So that's what I will do.

-May 21, 11:48pm Maria M texts she is sorry that she couldn't meet him in UT. Asks if he still wants to be friend.
11:52 pm TA says he know she is in England. Said 'LDS Linkup contacted me and I think all your friends'. He never went to UT. He knew she wasn't there and tried to call her bluff.
1155pm--Travis texts Michelle L. he needs her for a while.
11:57 pm Maria M says TA touched her and blah blah but fail sometimes.
11:59 pm TA - he forgives her but asks her to come clean and tell the truth.
May 22, 12:06 am Maria M asks what is TA's email address.
12:07 am Travis tells her.
12:15 am Maria M texts hers.
12:56 am Maria M says she is a good tour guide and invites him to England. She is glad TA didn't go to UT.
1:02 am Travis texts JA: He is not mad but he know what she did and won't talk until she admits.
JA - says she is guilty but the stuff involving him is just a fraction of whole. She is in a big mess. Need to apologize to a lot of people. Screwed the pooch. Need to call Parker Stan.

(Not in my note but I remember she also asked him to call her. He said ok. No more text after that)

 

[RickshawFan]

I agree, if you mean the self-jollying happened in late March when I think the sex photos were taken. I believe TA never knew JA was in his house until the middle of shower on June 4th.

Agreed.

The self-jollying could have happened at any time in their history together. Jodi had a habit of using small real details to create her lies.

Also, KY is helpful for self-jollying.... The KY in the photos is not evidence that JA was in the room except to take photos?

I think JA could have surprised TA in the garage when he came back from his bicycle ride. But she definitely surprised him in the shower.