YellowDog
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I don't know how a sketch artist could know for sure whether someone is lying or not. And a sketch artist's drawings are only as good as the information fed to them by the witness or witnesses.
Skyla Whitaker, 11, & Taylor Placker 13 - Found Murdered - #12
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I don't know how a sketch artist could know for sure whether someone is lying or not. And a sketch artist's drawings are only as good as the information fed to them by the witness or witnesses.
GetSmart
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I'm not FC But I found these links & more but I can't Hazel. I found hazel mentioned on topix re tje sketch and they were that I will keep looking too.
http://newsok.com/new-sketch-fuels-hope-in-slayings/article/3257467/?tm=1213420113?
Brown described the man authorities want to interview as American Indian, 6 feet tall, with brown eyes and a long black ponytail. She said a couple of witnesses told the OSBI they saw the man near where the girls were found dead. Other witnesses said they heard gunshots but did not report seeing the man or his white truck, Brown said.
http://newsok.com/few-signs-of-progress-in-inquiry-into-girls-deaths/article/3259304/?tm=1213846845
Brown said the agency is not releasing updated reward totals, "in case someone is waiting for a certain dollar amount before coming forward with information that could prove useful. Officers are continuing to field phone calls regarding an apparent American Indian man with a long ponytail. Authorities released his sketch Friday and said he was a person of interest.
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TQAQT7CHB1RRNPILS
Brown described the man authorities want to interview as American Indian, 6 feet tall, with brown eyes and a long black ponytail
-----------------
The sketch said HAZEL EYES.
http://newsok.com/new-sketch-fuels-hope-in-slayings/article/3257467/?tm=1213420113?
Brown described the man authorities want to interview as American Indian, 6 feet tall, with brown eyes and a long black ponytail. She said a couple of witnesses told the OSBI they saw the man near where the girls were found dead. Other witnesses said they heard gunshots but did not report seeing the man or his white truck, Brown said.
http://newsok.com/few-signs-of-progress-in-inquiry-into-girls-deaths/article/3259304/?tm=1213846845
Brown said the agency is not releasing updated reward totals, "in case someone is waiting for a certain dollar amount before coming forward with information that could prove useful. Officers are continuing to field phone calls regarding an apparent American Indian man with a long ponytail. Authorities released his sketch Friday and said he was a person of interest.
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TQAQT7CHB1RRNPILS
Brown described the man authorities want to interview as American Indian, 6 feet tall, with brown eyes and a long black ponytail
-----------------
The sketch said HAZEL EYES.
FlowerChild
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I said the boys were PROBABLY at home or elsewhere. Regardless, they have been cleared by the OSBI.
GP's were inside a house upwind (windy day) with AC and TV on. Boys would have been outside downwind on a bridge, ear witnesses were FURTHER away and outside and THEY heard the shots.
Two guns multiple shots, pile of casings on road. I SUGGEST the killer(s) emptied one gun and maybe TWO. That's at least 8 shots - two guns would hold 10 or 12 without reloading.
For links I suggest you look in the media thread and there are two article links in this thread added today where Rosser talks specifically about the boys, the shotgun and clearing the boys. Neither article says that the boys were AT THE BRIDGE AT THE TIME THE GIRLS WERE KILLED - they say the were there "that day" and were seen "in the area".
The girls were not shot with a shotgun - shotguns do not have bullet casings, they have shells. Bullet casings were found in the road at the scene. Girls were shot with guns probably handguns - one PROBABLY a high powered semi automatic or automatic - neither weapon a shotgun. Plus LE doesn't usually call shotguns "guns" they call them shotguns - just like they call a rifle a rifle.
I have a contact in Weleetka - there are 3 POI witnesses and two are known to the locals and the 3rd is "SPECULATED" to be the witness (local) who saw the girls "minutes" before they were shot and who OSBI says "we're not answering that question" when asked if he also saw the POI NEAR the girls on County Line Road. One of the witnesses DID see the POI at or near the crime scene - the other two saw him on a road that connects with County Line Road. It makes sense that the person who saw the girls ALSO is also the POI witness who saw the POI nearby.
The boys with the shotgun HAVE BEEN CLEARED and I don't think it's by some "powerful parent" who has connections. The OSBI isn't political or elected (like the county Sheriff) and it would not matter WHO the boy's parents were to the OSBI. OSBI wants to SOLVE this case badly and if it was "kids" so be it.
If it's KIDS then it wasn't the group of boys mentioned - THEY HAVE BEEN CLEARED and I think that would involve far more than one set of parents stating the boys were not involved. Local people SAW these boys and ID'd them to LE. They weren't some "random" boys. These days an alibi could be as simple as cell phone records or the boys being at the drive-in in Weleetka at 4:30 - 5:30PM or the boys being elsewhere (with random non-related adults around) target shooting. Finally, we have no idea what ages these "boys" were or what school they might attend (there are 4 locally they COULD go to) or where they live - home could be in Henryetta - a 30 minute drive from the scene.
I am sure OSBI would have cracked at least on of the "boys" if they had killed Taylor and Skyla. There is just no way that they wouldn't get questioned (and alibi's checked) thoroughly by the OSBI and Sheriff's Dept. - and if nothing else - been witnesses to the POI who 3 other people saw hanging around before and after the shots were heard.
Believe what you like - it could have been KIDS, just not the "KIDS" in the truck with the shotgun.
My Opinion
hannahsnana
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I forgot to add that that FlowerChild also said that there were three independent witnesses not related to each other.
evelyn24
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I know the POI has been described since day one of the sketch being released has having a possible european heritigate mix with NA, but I still do not see where the it was said half european. Also, just going by the sketch, the poi looks mostly NA.
jmo
jmo
FlowerChild
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The sketch artist was an Asst Director of the OSBI and before that a cop and LE officer with another agency. He specializes in QUESTIONING WITNESSES - not just for a good sketch, but to determine if they are lying, hiding something, know too much or are making up a description. He isn't just a sketch artist, he is a TRAINED INVESTIGATOR and LE OFFICER. And in this case we have 3 unrelated witnesses who Harvey Pratt interviewed separately to develop the sketch. No way 3 unrelated people would have all been able to describe the same POI questioned separately.
Again, believe what you like, the sketch artist is famous for his sketches and reconstructions and his assistance in SOLVING CRIMES by developing information during the sketch interview process. This isn't some "just a sketch artist" guy drawing what people describe, he is reknowed and lectures all over the US and has worked with the FBI.
Oh, and BTW, he is Native American - Harvey is a Cheyenne and Arapaho tribal member and is recognized as an accomplished master Native American Indian artist.
He has been recognized by the Cheyenne People as an Outstanding Southern Cheyenne. His family is an artistic and traditional Native American family. Harvey received one of the highest honors by being inducted in the Southern Cheyenne Chief's Lodge as one of their traditional Peace Chiefs.
Harvey began his career with the Midwest City Police Department in 1965 where he did his first witness description drawing a year later. This first attempt in forensic arts resulted in an arrest and conviction. He joined the OSBI in 1972 as a narcotics investigator and retired in 1992 as an Assistant Director.
Harvey also aides investigations though training classes, besides lecturing before universities, colleges, schools and civic groups.
Harvey Pratt is a forensic art expert with over 42 years experience in law enforcement and forensics. His diverse background represents a fusion of extensive investigative experience and authoritative knowledge of forensic art, always with a nod to his Native American heritage. His presentation concept offers a unique blend of PowerPoint, lecture, case example and discussion.
http://www.harveypratt.com/
GetSmart
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OKLAHOMA CITY -- The artist who made a sketch police hope will lead to the killer of Skyla Whitaker and Taylor Paschal-Placker said he tries not to let the emotion of the case impact his work.
Harvey Pratt relied on witness descriptions to sketch the person spotted near the scene of the slayings nearly three weeks ago. Investigators have circulated Pratts sketch, but have not found the man theyre looking for.
He doesn't have anything that just jumps right at you like a broken nose or a unibrow or missing teeth or huge scars, Pratt said He's about like most of the drawings that I do, he's pretty normal looking.
As a sketch artist, Pratts job is to look for the small features that may help someone stand out from the crowd. He said he tries to approach his work without emotion, sometimes a tough task in a homicide investigation
http://www.koco.com/news/16724023/detail.html
Harvey Pratt relied on witness descriptions to sketch the person spotted near the scene of the slayings nearly three weeks ago. Investigators have circulated Pratts sketch, but have not found the man theyre looking for.
He doesn't have anything that just jumps right at you like a broken nose or a unibrow or missing teeth or huge scars, Pratt said He's about like most of the drawings that I do, he's pretty normal looking.
As a sketch artist, Pratts job is to look for the small features that may help someone stand out from the crowd. He said he tries to approach his work without emotion, sometimes a tough task in a homicide investigation
http://www.koco.com/news/16724023/detail.html
Claycat
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Hi FlowerChild! I think Harvey Pratt is amazing! No one is questioning his ability or his credentials.
It's just that it took people awhile to come forward, plenty of time to come up with a story and a description. I know there are all sorts of reasons for that, and they are probably the true reasons. There is just that tiny, niggling sense of doubt that I have.
I was so pleased that there might have been a match to the drawing. It seemed that there was hope for resolution, and there still might be. I just carry that strange little feeling with me.
Oh, Well! We will see what unfolds!
It's just that it took people awhile to come forward, plenty of time to come up with a story and a description. I know there are all sorts of reasons for that, and they are probably the true reasons. There is just that tiny, niggling sense of doubt that I have.
I was so pleased that there might have been a match to the drawing. It seemed that there was hope for resolution, and there still might be. I just carry that strange little feeling with me.
Oh, Well! We will see what unfolds!
YellowDog
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I'm not trying to discredit the artist in any way, but it's like telling a story to different people and each one may interpret it a little differently when retelling it.
evelyn24
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Glad to hear there will be new details listed on Monday.
As far as the LE saying they have no motive and no suspect, well that's not surprising.
LE will not use the term "suspect" until they are ready to arrest and charge someone.
Also, some cases are in court being tried in front of a jury and the prosecutor along with LE are still not sure of motive. Many times a prosecutor will throw out a couple of possible motives for a jury to hang their hat on, but reality is, unless the perpetrator gives the reason and is honest about it...motive might never be truly known.
It doesn't mean the OSBI doesn't have a short list of people who they think are VERY interesting, and it doesn't mean they don't have a couple of very good ideas of what the motive was in the shootings.
They aren't going to say anything to the media about it.
imo
As far as the LE saying they have no motive and no suspect, well that's not surprising.
LE will not use the term "suspect" until they are ready to arrest and charge someone.
Also, some cases are in court being tried in front of a jury and the prosecutor along with LE are still not sure of motive. Many times a prosecutor will throw out a couple of possible motives for a jury to hang their hat on, but reality is, unless the perpetrator gives the reason and is honest about it...motive might never be truly known.
It doesn't mean the OSBI doesn't have a short list of people who they think are VERY interesting, and it doesn't mean they don't have a couple of very good ideas of what the motive was in the shootings.
They aren't going to say anything to the media about it.
imo
GetSmart
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After going over some of the ols newspaper articles .. I wanted to post this..
Remember when we had ?? how they were found.
On June 8, Taylor and Skyla were found lying face down in a ditch on the west side of the road. It
On the right track'After spending nearly two weeks, going door-to-door and checking the validity on some "lower-level leads, Rice said his office was trying to transition back into taking care of some of the county's everyday business that had been put on hold during the murder investigation. His office has been used for interviews and for lie detector tests, but Rice said most of the loose ends have been tied up and investigators may be close to a big break in the case.( what happen here?)
Sun June 22, 2008
Help with case comes across boundary lines
http://newsok.com/article/keyword/3260415/
Remember when we had ?? how they were found.
On June 8, Taylor and Skyla were found lying face down in a ditch on the west side of the road. It
On the right track'After spending nearly two weeks, going door-to-door and checking the validity on some "lower-level leads, Rice said his office was trying to transition back into taking care of some of the county's everyday business that had been put on hold during the murder investigation. His office has been used for interviews and for lie detector tests, but Rice said most of the loose ends have been tied up and investigators may be close to a big break in the case.( what happen here?)
Sun June 22, 2008
Help with case comes across boundary lines
http://newsok.com/article/keyword/3260415/
Claycat
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Yeah, GetSmart! I'd like to know what happened there as well! Close to a big break and then nothing?
Mysterylover
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The was I understood the press conferences "they were there as usual shooting that Sunday".
SO, believe the boys/teenagers were at the bridge that Sunday shooting, and I suspect the 5 boys had more guns than the 1 shotgun....there's no sport in shooting rocks, cans and frogs unless someone uses a.22..
Country boys generally get guns for Christmas fairly young to hunt with.
I read the guys were only 3 miles away, around the time the girls were killed...at 60 miles an hour that would take 3 minutes...imo
Mysterylover
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This reads like, going door to door and checking "lower-level" leads the LE learned alot....
possibly was close to WHO did it....What happened to "ZIP" their mouths shut?....imo
Claycat
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The bridge the boys had been to must have been the bridge over the Canadian River since it was about 3 miles away.
FlowerChild
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Umm, these are washboard, gravel and dirt roads full of holes and very rough and dusty. No way they were going 60mph on those dirt roads in a bouncy butt PU truck - 30 mph, maybe. Did the truck have AC or was it an old beater truck? Were ALL the boys in the cab? IF only PART of them were inside the cab or the truck had no AC then even at 30MPH they'd be eatin' DIRT.
And 3 miles away to where the locals might target shoot could mean it's 3 miles as the crow flies, not to drive it. The place they went could be down a rough unused road, over a hill and thru a gate into a cow pasture with no road at all and be 8 or 10 miles to drive. Not likely there's a road that goes straight there in a straight line. Roads in Oklahoma are made on "section lines" that are at LEAST 1 mile apart and in some isolated areas 2-5 miles apart before you reach an intersecting road. And half those section line roads do NOT have bridges over water - you might have to go 10 miles to the closest bridge. 3 miles away can be 20 or 30 minutes away depending on where the 3 miles away was. And that's assuming the entire trip can be made by car sometimes those target shooting spots are walk-in only.
3 Miles away tells us nothing about the length of time it would take to DRIVE there. I'd have to know WHERE the spot they went to was to say the length of time it took to drive (or walk) to it - but I can say from personal experience IN a truck on those type roads that 60MPH on any of those roads is impossible - especially in a PU with no weight on the rear wheels and bouncing like a wild bronc over every pothole and lump.
My Opinion
frogjustfrog
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frogjustfrog
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I'm still wondering how close a person has to be to know what color their eyes are.... especially when Hazel, brown and green can all be the same eye color of one person. It's not what color of eyes the poi had that bothers me, it is how can someone be that close and not notice more. And how did 3 people who saw him, still not know whether it was a ford or chevy that he drove. Sounds fishy to me!
I know that when someone gets older, it is harder to see that well, so maybe was it all young people that saw the eyes of this poi? I think it all smells fishy.:fish: :fish: As my mother would have said, "Something just doesnt jive!" lol
frogjustfrog
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Not saying I dont believe ya, but I wish more people would look at mapquest, the aerial view. I recently went down that county line road. From the Plackers south, it turns a little rougher, but it leads straight down to highway 84. when you cross that, it goes right down to the river. I have been up and down in those woods at that river, camping with my exhusband and family when I was younger. There is a zillion places to shoot. But I got from an interview that the boys said they did shoot from that bridge. Just not that day. Hmmmmmmmmmm
I wonder if one of them saw the poi and was the one who called him in. Does your friend know if it was a young person or not who called in the description of the poi 3-4 days later?:banghead:
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