South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2

[PrimeSuspect]

Those twin bald heads are a distraction! Judge Desai reminds me of David Suchet's Hercule Poirot! I imagine HvB and his legal team would be worried that Marli's memory might return at any time.

Haha, yes he does!
I hope Marli will receive further therapy after her brother is imprisoned because it will be a shock to her system that he's the assailant who murdered her family. If she regains her memory, even more traumatic for her.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Those twin bald heads are a distraction! Judge Desai reminds me of David Suchet's Hercule Poirot! I imagine HvB and his legal team would be worried that Marli's memory might return at any time.

Lol you are too kind. I think they look like a couple of middle aged t*h*u*g*s. Whilst I quite like natural baldness, I find shaven heads project a degree of aggressiveness - not just with these two. Interesting how we see the shaven heads completely differently.

 

[Marples]

Haha, yes he does!
I hope Marli will receive further therapy after her brother is imprisoned because it will be a shock to her system that he's the assailant who murdered her family. If she regains her memory, even more traumatic for her.

I think maybe on some level she knows. Even if she doesn't remember the attack itself. To have the very significant injuries she did, knowing her brother and parents died and here's old mate Henri cruising around with a few tiny nicks on him - there'd be some pit of the stomach pangs, no? And when she shared stuff on SM it never included HvB, only her lost family. In one way I'd love her to remember just to absolutely nail this down but on another level I just wonder, like what she'd remember - the smell of that amount of blood, the savageness of the attack, roving the fear she'd have felt knowing she was next. That's heavy going. Enormous hugs to her, she truly does have the heart and spirit of a champion to survive that.


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[Marples]

It's shocking that HvB is out on bail!!! He's not fooling anyone, his defence team are fighting a losing battle, imo. Botha talking about being ambushed, that's an insult to the state and court and I'm glad J Desai chided him for it. The hair isn't important but Botha is making it appear that it is.

I'm now thinking that Marli was not suppose to survive. If her throat was cut before he made the call, he knew it would take the ambulance at least 20 minutes to arrive and he delayed it further by his lack of urgency when speaking with Janine P, that's why she assumed it was a prank call. I wouldn't be surprised if he wet himself when he found out Marli was taken to the hospital and could survive.

Oh Prime, yes! It just beggars belief that he's out on bail, sailing off to cooking school and the like. Maybe only in South Africa, hey? I'm actually from the Sunny Coast where this family lived and if he'd done this here, there'd be no bail. No siree Bob. He's such a conniving sort he probably waited for the seemingly lax SA justice system, underfunded SA police/lab and the not the fastest responding SA ambulances to increase his opportunity for success and freedom while being tried.


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[Tortoise]

I'd like to know more about the amnesia. If it's a protective mechanism related to the shock, or even if it's because of brain injury sustained, I wonder how it can erase memories prior to the attack. Surely Marli might remember a massive family argument a couple of hours earlier, because otherwise I don't see where the cut off point would be, if her memories of her whole life before the attack weren't affected. She remembered who her family members were for instance.

There was a similar case of amnesia with Josie Russell, who when she was 9 survived a hammer attack, but her mum Lin, sister Megan, and their dog, were killed. This was in 1996. I just looked it up and she remembered seeing the assailant in his car before the attack. http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/crime-files/lin-and-megan-russell-murder

ETA actually she remembered far more than just the car, so she was able to explain to police what happened before the attack in quite some detail.

 

[Estelle]

Another image of HvB's wounds

http://www.netwerk24.com/Nuus/Hof/en-wat-van-die-wonde-20170521

 

[L2L]

I'd like to know more about the amnesia. If it's a protective mechanism related to the shock, or even if it's because of brain injury sustained, I wonder how it can erase memories prior to the attack. Surely Marli might remember a massive family argument a couple of hours earlier, because otherwise I don't see where the cut off point would be, if her memories of her whole life before the attack weren't affected. She remembered who her family members were for instance.

There was a similar case of amnesia with Josie Russell, who when she was 9 survived a hammer attack, but her mum Lin, sister Megan, and their dog, were killed. This was in 1996. I just looked it up and she remembered seeing the assailant in his car before the attack. http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/crime-files/lin-and-megan-russell-murder

ETA actually she remembered far more than just the car, so she was able to explain to police what happened before the attack in quite some detail.

That's really interesting, Tortoise. How much she remembers of what happened before the attack. I wonder if the police and prosecution have gone there?

 

[Interested Bystander]

I'd like to know more about the amnesia. If it's a protective mechanism related to the shock, or even if it's because of brain injury sustained, I wonder how it can erase memories prior to the attack. Surely Marli might remember a massive family argument a couple of hours earlier, because otherwise I don't see where the cut off point would be, if her memories of her whole life before the attack weren't affected. She remembered who her family members were for instance.

There was a similar case of amnesia with Josie Russell, who when she was 9 survived a hammer attack, but her mum Lin, sister Megan, and their dog, were killed. This was in 1996. I just looked it up and she remembered seeing the assailant in his car before the attack. http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/crime-files/lin-and-megan-russell-murder

ETA actually she remembered far more than just the car, so she was able to explain to police what happened before the attack in quite some detail.

Tortoise, I did message Jake but have had no response. She would have been ideal to give us some idea about the amnesia problem but she did not get back to me. I feel I have to leave it there.

 

[Tortoise]

Tortoise, I did message Jake but have had no response. She would have been ideal to give us some idea about the amnesia problem but she did not get back to me. I feel I have to leave it there.

Of course IB.

I was just seeing what I could find out about it and read about a case where a hockey player sustained serious brain injury and as a result retrograde amnesia. His last memory is about 4 or 5 hours before the accident, doesn't remember the 3 games he played before. Not looking hopeful, but I suppose each case has to be different.

http://tbilaw.com/tbivoices/retrograde-amnesia-for-day-of-tbi/

 

[Interested Bystander]

Here is a short piece on memory loss. Much of the article (which I have not posted) covers various types of amnesia. This section I thought was most relevant to the current situation.

LOST MEMORIES--TWO TYPES OF AMNESIA

Before we go on with memory, let's talk about two common things that happen with people with head injuries: retrograde and anterior grade amnesia. Amnesia means you lost a memory that you once had. It's as if someone has erased part of your past. Retrograde amnesia means you have lost memories for events PRIOR to the accident. For some people, retrograde amnesia can cover just a minute or even a few seconds. In other words, they'll recall the car coming right at them but are unable to recall the moment of impact. For other people, retrograde amnesia may affect longer periods of time. The last three or four hours prior to the accident are gone. I had one individual who had lost the last year of his life. As people get better from their head injuries, long-term memories tend to return. However, memories tend to return like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle; these bits and pieces return in random order. In general, the smaller the degree of retrograde amnesia, the less significant the head injury.

Another form of memory loss is called anterior grade amnesia. In this case, events following the accident have been erased. A good part of that is due to the brain injury itself. Complex systems in the brain are injured. The chemical balance in the brain is upset. As brain chemistry normalizes and brain systems begin working, memory also starts to work. I've had patients who have spent several months in the hospital but are only able to recall the last to two to three weeks of their stay.

http://www.tbiguide.com/memory.html

 

[Tortoise]

Even if Marli can't remember the night of the attack, there is a chance she will be able to remember something relevant, like a tension that existed, perhaps HvB didn't want to move back to SA or had a history of difficult behaviour that wider family weren't privy to.

 

[Tortoise]

Another image of HvB's wounds

http://www.netwerk24.com/Nuus/Hof/en-wat-van-die-wonde-20170521

I think it requires a subscription to open that but the small image I've seen on twitter looks like a drawing more than a photo. Is it a photo Estelle?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Those twin bald heads are a distraction! Judge Desai reminds me of David Suchet's Hercule Poirot! I imagine HvB and his legal team would be worried that Marli's memory might return at any time.

I'm so glad you mentioned Hercule Poirot. I think the same. I asked my hubby to have a look at a pic of each of them a couple of days ago and he didn't agree. Pfft, he needs some more little grey cells.

As it's well over 2 years now, Marli will probably never recover her memory of the events of that night. For her sake, I hope those memories are gone forever.

 

[JudgeJudi]

When Botha said Henri wet himself, I wondered whether he would have the authority to say that unless there is some evidence of it, because it's supplementary information to his statement.

I hope they examined his shorts, and the crime scene, for urine. Did he say whereabouts he was unconscious?

"As I moved past the middle landing of the stairs, towards the top, I saw Marli moving about on the top landing lying next to my Mum. My Mum was not moving. The last thing I recall seeing is Marli and my Mum. I then lost consciousness. I am unsure whether it was due to the shock or to the injuries that I sustained when I fell down the stairs or a combination of both. I later woke, lying on the stairs".

 

[JudgeJudi]

She may even have grabbed her Mums hair in trying to fight HvB off. All that picture proves to me is how ridiculous his wounds look. There's barely a mark on him, they are almost symmetrical and look like he wasn't thrashing about fighting for his life. And how little blood is there on him! It's almost a scandal they didn't arrest him on the spot, laughing at his stupidity!

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My husband is a fraction shorter than HvB. I gave him two kitchen knives of differing lengths and asked him to draw each one across his chest where HvB did. It was perfect and was the natural place where you would sustain those scratches.

 

[Tortoise]

It'll be interesting to see if the State has evidence of Rudi and/or Martin using their phones or computers that evening, while they were "watching Star Wars". Although if they were arguing they might not have. Henri said that he and Rudi were on their laptops in the bedroom at a later time.

 

[Tortoise]

"As I moved past the middle landing of the stairs, towards the top, I saw Marli moving about on the top landing lying next to my Mum. My Mum was not moving. The last thing I recall seeing is Marli and my Mum. I then lost consciousness. I am unsure whether it was due to the shock or to the injuries that I sustained when I fell down the stairs or a combination of both. I later woke, lying on the stairs".

Thanks JJ. I'm going to listen to the plea statement again, to see if he explains why he was going upstairs.

 

[Estelle]

I think it requires a subscription to open that but the small image I've seen on twitter looks like a drawing more than a photo. Is it a photo Estelle?

No it is a drawing detailing each injury with arrows to them.

I subscribed as it was free.

 

[Tortoise]

Right, no explanation for going upstairs. He does say that when he "woke up" he saw Marli moving and heard Rudi making gurgling sounds. That was just before he phoned for the ambulance, so Rudi was still alive too for the 4 hours and must have only just died before the ambulance came.

My guess is he spent those 4 hours waiting for the two of them to die before he phoned, but because they hadn't died by 7.30 ish he went back up with the knife and then phoned for the ambulance, before people would start to query where they were - maybe the cleaner would arrive, Martin would normally go to work, Marli would be expected to go to school. He said he pulled the knife out of his own side and dropped it by the foot of his bed, which was obviously near Rudi.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I've transcribed the plea explanation from the beginning of the evening of the attack until HvB is in the kitchen ringing the emergency number.

Part 1

[video=youtube;Yuah3fYrcwU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yuah3fYrcwU[/video]

Start at 7.40

“The events of 27 January 2015.

There was nothing out of the ordinary the evening before the attack. Before dinner, my Dad opened a bottle of wine for us. He, Rudi and I watched television whilst my Mum made dinner. As far as I can recall, Marli was in the room. After dinner, Rudi, my Dad and I watched the movie Star Trek 2. I recall that my Mum spent some time on the phone with her brother but I am not sure what else she was busy with that night.

After the movie, Rudi, Dad and I said goodnight. We all usually slept with our bedroom doors open. Rudi and I turned off the lights and got into bed. Initially, Rudi and I were both busy on our laptops. However, Rudi was asleep shortly after getting into bed. I stayed up watching the animated show called One Piece. (One Piece is a lighthearted animated show about pirates with special powers)

At some point long after we went to bed, I went to the bathroom to use the toilet as I had to move my bowels. I took my cell phone with me to play games. I did not switch on the light in the bathroom. I’m unsure how long I was in the bathroom when I suddenly heard several banging sounds that sounded close by. The sounds were so loud and strange that they startled me into investigating the source thereof. I stood up, pulled up my pants and moved towards the bathroom door which was only partially closed.

I opened the bathroom door and looked in the direction of the banging sounds which emanated from the vicinity of Rudi’s bed. I could make out the silhouette of someone standing next to (between our two beds) or partially on Rudi’s bed. This person was busy attacking Rudi with an object which later transpired to be an axe. I initially stood frozen, trying to comprehend what was going on. I shouted for help, hoping to attract attention. I cannot remember what words I used. I also cannot recall whether I remained in the same position throughout the attack on Rudi.

The bedroom light was suddenly switched on and my Dad came into the room . At this stage the attack with the axe on Rudi was still going on. As far as I could see, the attacker was dressed in dark clothes and he wore gloves and a balaclava type of mask. My dad immediately moved towards and onto the bed, over Rudi, towards the attacker who was on the opposite side of the bed. It looked as if he was trying to tackle the attacker or at least get between the attacker and Rudi. However, my Dad was struck with the axe as he lunged towards the attacker. His body went limp on the bed and I did not see him move again. Despite this, he was hit a number of times by the attacker with the axe. I also recall that the attacker was laughing whilst he attacked my Dad.