SPAIN - Daniel, 46, & Liam Poole, 22, British tourists, Estepona, Malaga, 1 Apr 2019

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by cybervampira, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. lolafaith

    lolafaith Well-Known Member

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    I never said that, simply that the more information that is given out the more helpful it is, and people are commenting on the facebook post asking for the car reg etc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2019
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  2. Satchie

    Satchie Well-Known Member

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    I agree, moreover it's not necessarily just choices family have made, the police are conducting the investigation, not the family. Since police haven't revealed the license plate to the public, then they don't want or need to release it to the public, for some reason. They likely haven't released it to the family, either: what good would that do?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2019
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  3. Joolz1975

    Joolz1975 Well-Known Member

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    <modsnip>

    I can tell you exactly what the response from Avis will be. They would say absolutely nothing because if the car was hired through Avis UK they would be breaking GDPR rules and I'm pretty certain if it was hired in Spain they would have similar rules also.

    We don't need to know what the registration number is.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2019
  4. Elainera

    Elainera Well-Known Member

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    Yeah pretty pointless to ask Avis for the registration number but it is unusual that is hasn't been included by LE in the appeal.
     
  5. Oto

    Oto Active Member

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    In reply to various above:

    Obtaining the number plate of a missing vehicle is questionable as serious? When that vehicle is related to missing persons? Sorry but I do not follow your line of thinking. There are people offering to go out and search their neighbourhood but not doing so because they do not have that detail. No one is going to call up the police for sighting just a grey peugeot 308. In Spain there is a large expat community spread widely, they might well find if it is actually parked up somewhere, they won't start without that detail.
    The question of having a right to info. Please, we are being alerted and asked to help, we are being asked to get involved. We are not just an audience watching a soap, so why treat us like that? We are not here to play some pathetic role cooked up by any authority or media. To not release the number plate can be construed as obstruction of justice, just as in Spain to not stop and help anyone in difficulty on the roadways is a punishable offence.
    I personally have been involved in various serious cases (as innocent) with Spanish police, courts, authorities. I am also British and have a fair enough idea of British protocol and agenda. One event in particular was very similar to this in terms of the effect on those related. Only afterwards are you left asking how come it was handled like that, what just happened really, why was this or that not done. Frankly you are left incredulous, and it is more than a person is able to comprehend.
    I am willing to accept that the family have chosen to follow the organisation offered by the British police. I cannot personally vouch that anyone properly knows what they are doing. The incongruities of asking for help and then not supplying detail are shouting out a confusing message, and not just for myself.
     
  6. lolafaith

    lolafaith Well-Known Member

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    Spot on and well put!
     
  7. Joolz1975

    Joolz1975 Well-Known Member

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    The registration number would be helpful no doubt about it but it's not forthcoming so people have to proceed with the information they do have.

    My main point was no car hire company would share that information with a random stranger that is sleuthing on the internet so cant understand why you were suggesting it as something we could do.
     
  8. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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    It could be the police suspect false plates are being used so a number plate would stop people reporting a grey Peugeot 308 if it did not have the number plate given by the police.
     
  9. Satchie

    Satchie Well-Known Member

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    Or car may have been abandoned somewhere with plates removed. I agree, it's likely police don't want people to focus on the plates, but on the kind of car.
     
  10. ZaZara

    ZaZara Well-Known Member

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    This is what Sussex Poloce says about Daniel, Liam and the car:

    Fresh appeal to help find missing father and son Daniel and Liam Poole

    "We know that Daniel and Liam hired a grey Peugeot 308 car when they got to Spain but this has not been returned to the car hire firm. We would like to hear from anyone who has seen them, the car or has any information about their whereabouts in Spain or any other location since 31 March."

    BBM

    The way I read this is that they may be anywhere, car included and if they came to harm, this need not have been in Spain.

    I find this rather curious, since by the look of their hotel room, they left their stuff and passports behind and it appeared as if they had not planned to be away for long.



    IMHO a car with the plates removed would attract more attention than a car with number plates.

    If the car had been returned, and had been used afterwards by unrelated persons, I could imagine that there would be a problem with publishing the registration numbers, but this car has not been returned and it is missing too.... (please call home.)
     
  11. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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    Could be they have left things in hotel room so they had a head start before anyone started looking for them.
    Interesting to hear police think they may have left Spain!
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  12. Oto

    Oto Active Member

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    I take it we talk straight here and in good faith, so I hope that nothing I say is taken personally in a negative sense.

    It goes like this: I am not going to make half enquiries from Avis as anonymous, that does not work and is not right. Instead I would put my full weight in any dealings with officialdom (name, contact, reasoning) in an up front manner. For reasons that I will not give here I am not willing to do that , and so it must be to others to make that effort if they choose. It is not asking websleuths in particular to do this.

    Secondly, we are going round in circles here. The family want all done to find the pair, the police are advising method I presume, and are not answering online calls for registration number, presumably because they have info that it is not now relevant. However the case is presented as having no leads, and the family are at a loss to what may have happened , in which case registration number is a main information to provide to the public. We do not know that registration number is not relevant.

    Why would anyone assume from all of that that providing registration number is not relevant, instead of it being a kind of official formality between forces that it not be issued for whatever reason , for example ?

    The possibility that there is some kind of face saving going on while people suffer for it is outrageous. What is more, any possible criminality of the two is completely insignificant to me beyond the information it brings on finding their whereabouts.

    Finally this all reflects on how the case is being handled, it points to who knew what and when. This is important for family members in future when they try to analyse what has happened.

    As I mentioned originally, I will just keep noting down anything that might be useful here, hopefully within the bounds of reason and in a form that will not cause distress to family members.
     
  13. ZaZara

    ZaZara Well-Known Member

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    On the FB page of Sussex Police various requests have appeared for the registration number of the car, no answer is given, and it is very strange indeed that this has not been published.

    I agree that it would be essential to provide this to the public, together with the date and the last known location.
     
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  14. lolafaith

    lolafaith Well-Known Member

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    I saw one of the family had replied to a comment about the car reg on the sussex police FB, and said they've asked the UK police for that information and they're trying to find it out....sounds like they're being fobbed off, as said above it's necessary to give this info in order to get the public to look, and why mention the car make and model in the new appeal if you're not going to provide the registration, did they think people wouldn't ask?

    Could it be that the UK police are having issues dealing with the Spanish police, perhaps they think this is connected to other ongoing investigations in the area??

    There is just something really off about this whole 'case' that I guess we all find interesting and intriguing, and is no doubt extremely upsetting and frustrating for the family involved.

    Oto I think you sum it up perfectly.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  15. Oto

    Oto Active Member

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    Well you don't know how much that word of support means to me, as I am extending myself in every way I am able to at the moment and I feel vulnerable doing so for various reasons.

    Issues dealing with the Spanish police is very possible. On the other hand as people have pointed out Avis is foreign owned and so records should be easy. Here the closest I got online is cars deregistered for theft, there is a daily readout but not by exact model with registration.

    What the family is being put through is beyond description , there is no way Daniel would do this knowingly with Liam in agreement. I have been all day and now till 5am on background, I have one question which does not impinge I think for the family if anyone of the family wants to answer.

    Did Daniel circuit race some of the cars he prepared, would he possibly go off track or back road to rally?

    I'm really overcome to be honest, there are just so many similarities in this all to my own knowledge and experience that I don't know where to start. I don't do crime sleuthing or missing persons etc. ever out of choice till now, I spend a lot of time on the web on geopolitics, local events, natural history, economics, archaeology and history etc. .. just so anyone knows who might think otherwise.

    Some figures for Spain from 2012. Every year 10 000 people are reported missing, but only 200 of those are not resolved. However the cumulative total of unresolved missing persons cases now stands at 14 000. So this shows the background reality that the family are competing with to get attention for their loved ones. Every day there are searches and appeals as newer events take the attention. This is not to mention the degree of lawlessness in certain areas.The Poole family might find that they really have to pressure to get things done. If so they should not fear doing that, and without hesitation, it is part of the way it works in Spain - if you don't insist and pester and remind then it can be seen as because you are not serious and so you might be ignored.
     
  16. Oto

    Oto Active Member

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    Correction - every year 800 are not resolved (not 200)... did say it was 5am here at the moment.
     
  17. lolafaith

    lolafaith Well-Known Member

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    Oto, without prying too much, do you know the family?

    You said "there is no way Daniel would do this with Liam in agreement'. I'm confused now as how you know this? And do what? What does that comment mean?

    I do very much agree with your comments about the family needing to pester the Spanish authorities, hence why i've repeatedly commented about members going out there to speak face to face with the police, visit the internet cafe, the hotel, bars/restaurants, and also follow up the property line of enquiry by calling estate agents. I am sure the family are desperate and beside themselves, but possibly not proactive and demanding where that might actually get them somewhere.

    I've also been thinking about this situation regarding the comments as to maybe they wanted to disappear or had planned something, one thing that tells otherwise is that Daniel was active on Tinder when they arrived in Spain or soon after, as per the article below. Which in my mind confirms that there was no intention to disappear from the hotel, and that there were plans to relax and enjoy and possibly meet up with someone suitable for a drink/dinner.

    'No significant leads' in mystery of British father and son who vanished a MONTH ago from Spain's Costa del Sol - Olive Press News Spain
     
  18. Oto

    Oto Active Member

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    Hello Lola.
    It's ok to ask anything, I just will tell you I won't reply to a question if for any reason I do not want to.

    No, I don't know the family. We grew up in this crowd of people on the coast , I am roughly Daniel's age and can see through him/relate closely, also my family are same ages and an in law ( and acquaintances) I mentioned was/are very much his way ( i.e. lifestyle etc.). Anyone might say I don't know the people so I don't know their character, no matter . He would not do this, even if he were depressed etc. Liam would not agree.

    The family would be centered around Daniel, as in he would be the reference decision maker, so now they haven't that to keep them centred or rely on, even if there were differences in the family.

    I have spent many hundreds of hours exploring inland from the coast off track or on dirt lanes. If they came off the road there at the sort of speeds possible they would almost always walk away, plus there are few places that a car would go unnoticed - in a month there are always people passing. Some places inland lose phone coverage ( valleys) but their last positions should be registered to indicate an area. I really don't see them heading off into the hills to do a bit of rally, but it has to be a possibility. A home of ours overlooks Valle Romano, though I am from further east (but now out of the country further west for a stay).

    Someone will know where they went, if it was clandestine it is a question of encouraging them to say as contacts are brief and informal at this level. I won't go into that side of it for now, I will wait till the police say it is a criminal investigation or similar. The family, unless they actually have a firm line of pursuit that they are not revealing, have to group and organise. It has to be done, it cannot be left trailing in the hands of others. I will post more detail on local reality re. authorities in a bit, I just woke up.

    This is a message to potential informers, I'll say it only once in the off-chance that there is something to be informed of and that any are reading this. Though we don't know yet what has happened, it will be discovered .

    Anyone close to the family, or working with Daniel : If you have information that might jeopardise you before the law, but which will help the police narrow their search, find a way to hand that information in anonymously all the same. Only the police are able to mobilise resources to the degree needed here, it is no longer a case of standing or retribution, and to inform the police will not deny you those either if that were already a choice. To anyone local who fears reprisal from outside the law for giving information, you are on the wrong side - the distance you will go is less and more uncertain than if you step aside and provide information. There are rules and codes of honour in this world, if anyone has broken them with regards to Daniel and Liam, they will be ending up at the very bottom of the pile of everything that goes on along the coast. That is not a threat or a promise, that is the cold reality of the world around. So step aside from that and hand in the information.

    I'm sorry to speak like this, it has to be said.
     
  19. lolafaith

    lolafaith Well-Known Member

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    <modsnip: not victim friendly>

    Isn't it now a criminal investigation since the major crime team are working on it?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2019
  20. Satchie

    Satchie Well-Known Member

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    RSBM

    I was going to make the same comment, if it was considered possibly an accident, a major crime unit might be consulted, but they wouldn't take over the case. These are basically homicide detectives, with all the latest scientific, forensic, technological support behind them. Surrey detectives to investigate Sussex crimes
     
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