Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020

[Sjm_qc]

Please do, I'll be interested to read anything you find. I know some have seen commenting on this as being over critical of the police investigation, but I keep coming back to it as it seems one of the oddest things I have read on the case.

The light on the van was on at 7PM. 3 hours later it was still on and there was someone sleeping in there. The police initially fob off the witness, than later confirm when pressed that it was related to their activity.

And 3 plus hours to examine the van?

NB: I think it’s fairly clear what my opinion of the Daily Mail’s “reporting” is.

This witness photographed the light in the van & supposedly saw someone sleeping in it on December 2nd.

Esther was reported missing when she didn’t arrive back in Arreau November 25th.

The authorities in Spain & France deployed impressive SAR resources immediately & only stopped searching when the weather got too bad on December 3rd.

I highly doubt that they did not do at least a basic search of the van before the 2nd, and I don’t see a issue with them re-searching, perhaps more in depth, including on the night of the 2nd.

I do take possibly issue with the reporting from the DM that witness was “fobbed off”/“someone was sleeping in it”. Because DM is well-known (some may say notorious) for embellishing, twisting, spinning witness accounts for sensationalism. We’ve seen it in other cases, but usually we’re able to x-reference with local/more reputable sources. Unfortunately, reporting other than the Fail seems to have gone quiet

IMO, it’s perfectly possible that police didn’t follow up with this witness, or simply said “thanks we know”, because they DID know exactly why the lights were on etc.

I’ll add, for those who may not know already, the DM pays (handsomely) for this sort of witness account/photos.

 

[Sjm_qc]

I would like to know where the dogs are incase they need help looking after them.

JMO: The dogs are either with family in the UK (and have been since the summer) or with D in France, who also now has a family member staying there too.

Again, JMO, speculation, etc.

 

[Sjm_qc]

I read in a comment on Facebook that they were in the UK, and it was a comment by the person who was looking after them. I was wondering why and if it had a bearing on their plans to remain abroad after Brexit.

Dan and Esther visited the UK in the summer so I'm guessing they left them then.

The dogs were probably being cared for in the UK because after E & D’s UK visit there in the summer, they then embarked on an 80 day thru hike in the Alps. This isn’t unusual for them, despite the media reports of them travelling (all the time) with all the dogs, the dogs were often cared for by other people when they went on long trips.

From my reading, that thru-hike ended on or around October 5th. On Oct 28th they were back in Arreau. Then Esther went to Spain sometime between then & end October/beginning November.

NB: It is of course possible that posting dates may not be exact (I.e. delayed by a day or 2, or 3).

 

[talby66]

Snipped by me. It's a charity to help families of missing/murdered people abroad. Being educated doesn't mean someone is capable of handling media enquiries, especially at a time of stress. And it's one stress that LBT can remove by being the focal point.

Fair point, perhaps after his social media and breakfast tv interview attracted unwanted attention he went this route.

 

[Satchie]

As is probably clear I don’t think LBT have made a great start as media advisor/spokesperson but it’s not all bad news.
It’s not unreasonable to use an experienced organisation to help with a situation one has no experience in and which can help with different law enforcement/search organisations around the world. I’m not as sure that using them as your spokesperson is ideal, I don’t see why an educated person cannot speak for themselves, in fact there probably isn’t much speaking to be done now, is there?

However, I like to look for silver linings and I think I have found one, if LBT are “taking over” this case and want help from the general public I think it would be reasonable to ask them to clarify certain information so that misunderstandings don’t continue to rear their heads and we all start from a known, stable position. To this end I would like them to answer the following questions:

What was the exact date that Esther first set off on her solo hiking venture? Just sets the scene a bit.
Where are the dogs? a number of people think they are with Dan, I think they are in the UK and have been for some time.
If the dogs are in the UK how long have they been there and why?
How often were Dan and Esther in contact? by message, whatsapp, phone etc
What was the longest time that Dan and Esther were not in contact before she disappeared?
How often did Esther contact her father?
When was the BBC interview about their travels done?
Can the BBC interviewer confirm that Esther was speaking live?
On the 22nd Nov did Esther just send Dan a photo or did she speak to him? what was the time of this?
On the 22nd Nov did Esther give Dan her itinerary?
Did Esther give the local Guardia Civil her itinerary? How did she do this given her limited Spanish language?
If Esther did give the local GC her itinerary did she ever give any other officials her itinerary for previous hikes?
Was it unusual for Esther to meet someone hiking, have a lift etc and not tell Dan a bit more about them (particularly the hiker from the 19th Nov)? eg nationality, age
Given Esther mentioned the lift on the 19th Nov why did she not mention the lift on the 21st Nov? I realise that they may not be able to answer this.
Why did Esther go back to the Pic de Sauvegarde on the 22nd Nov having been there the day before?
What did Esther do on the 20th Nov?
Why wasn’t there a facebook posting for the 21st Novwhereas Instagram shows the photos from Pic de Sauvegarde?
Does Esther’s phone back up the images somewhere and can the exact time and locations be seen and provided? particularly those from the 19th and 22nd.
Why did Esther turn off her phone? Dan says the signal up there was good, did she not have a powerbank or similar (solar maybe)?
Did Esther turn her phone off on any other occasions, if so how long for?
When Esther went out on the 22nd how long was she intending to be out given that we think she was due back at the farmhouse by the 25th?
How far away was the camping car parked? given that she had a lift back to it someone must have been able to park closer, why didn’t she park closer?
On what day and what time did Dan raise the alarm and how?

I’m sure some people know the answers to these questions but I think it would be good if they were official and all in one place.

If anyone has any questions they would like to ask please feel free to add them. I’ll send them the questions in a day or so (to give time for people to object to the questions or add any).

It was announced a few days ago that there is a French judicial investigation underway to compile any facts that may shed light on her disappearance. This is a common French procedure, and it is conducted in secret, just like any police investigation, to protect the privacy of all the individuals and protect the integrity of the investigation.

Colegate posted on his fb page that he had been asked to stop sharing with the media and allow the judicial investigation to take over.

I expect, at some point in the future, there will be an announcement about the conclusion of that investigation. Meanwhile, there is a great deal of information on this thread, as well as existing social media postings.

 

[talby66]

I think it was the Daily Mail that splashed it not LBT. They ran the story of the witness who took the photo. She had contacted the authorites and been "fobbed off" so I'm guessing she contacted the paper. I'm not their biggest fan but if her statement is accurate this is one occasion when I would in fact support the Daily Mail for publishing a story.

You do seem to have a bit of a concern over the involvement and capabilities of LBT, can I ask why?

I am not particularly concerned by them but think they've made a poor start but I am concerned by the use of such organisations or spokespersons to act as a shield (could be good in the sense of press hassle but could be bad since what they say is not necessarily directly attributed to the person they speak on behalf of).

You beat me to it. I was just going to comment on the "why an educated person cannot speak for themselves" statement and ask why on earth would anyone expect a distressed relative to field the questions (other than when being formally interviewed of course), especially when you then follow it with such an exhaustive list of questions.

The questions were for the LBT to calmly put to Dan and then provide answers, none of those questions are difficult, surely he has already answered them.

 

[talby66]

Right

A mate of mine who was a high end PR stepped in when a family friend went missing (drowning)

If you haven't worked in the industry, you might not appreciate how much time goes into fielding media inquiries on a high profile case.

It's not just speaking at a press conference or a doorstep .

There is all the work of preparing statements and resources (saves a hell of a lot of time), but then endless calls with journalists etc. Doing all that work reduces stress on the family hugely - and as you say, freaked out family are not well placed to suddenly learn how to deal with national and international media.

And we've all seen cases where family members have decided to front media themselves in the early days and it can be disastrous even when they are innocent!

Out of interest why do you think it is a high profile case?

 

[talby66]

I’d like answers to some of those questions too, however, some have already been answered or answers can be gleaned from SM.

However, LBT Global is not the place to address those questions, it’s not what the organization does.

What LBT does is provide support for the families of the missing, can act as a “buffer”/spokesperson between the family and media, and provides help for families in liaising with overseas law enforcement/authorities.

I think that’s a fairly reasonable list of questions that might - if you can find an amenable & reputable* one - be better addressed to a journalist covering the case.

* Anyone who writes for the Daily Fail is NOT in my personal opinion in that classification. I’d try the Beeb, Guardian, Times, or Spanish & French sources.

JMO.

I was hoping to get concise set of answers directly from the horses mouth (so to speak).
LBT say "
What we can do
although there is much more, includes:
Handling all media, from writing Press Releases and getting them circulated to holding full-scale Press Conferences;

So I would have thought these questions were right up the street of "a full-scale press conference"

If I went to one of the other journos (very hard to find a good one) wouldn't they have to go through LBT now that they are on the case, they say "ALL MEDIA ENQUIRIES SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. Please do not approach family or friends directly."

I agree entirely with you with regard to the Daily Fail, let's hope the Express don't join in.

 

[Sjm_qc]

I was hoping to get concise set of answers directly from the horses mouth (so to speak).
LBT say "
What we can do
although there is much more, includes:
Handling all media, from writing Press Releases and getting them circulated to holding full-scale Press Conferences;

So I would have thought these questions were right up the street of "a full-scale press conference"

If I went to one of the other journos (very hard to find a good one) wouldn't they have to go through LBT now that they are on the case, they say "ALL MEDIA ENQUIRIES SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. Please do not approach family or friends directly."

I agree entirely with you with regard to the Daily Fail, let's hope the Express don't join in.

BBM for focus: no, a reputable, accredited journo could, would (& should) go straight to the source (I.e. LE) for answers to questions pertaining to the investigation/search.

For the more “personal” or background questions & information, our hypothetical reputable journo could/would try to work through/with the designated spokesperson/organization.

 

[Grouse]

Well exactly, which is why I was a bit puzzled that you said you couldn't see why an educated person cannot speak for themselves.

Was going to go back and do a DBM on this bit as I put it into the wrong post, sorry @mrjitty .

Presume there's a time limit on editing posts?

 

[talby66]

It was announced a few days ago that there is a French judicial investigation underway to compile any facts that may shed light on her disappearance. This is a common French procedure, and it is conducted in secret, just like any police investigation, to protect the privacy of all the individuals and protect the integrity of the investigation.

Colegate posted on his fb page that he had been asked to stop sharing with the media and allow the judicial investigation to take over.

I expect, at some point in the future, there will be an announcement about the conclusion of that investigation. Meanwhile, there is a great deal of information on this thread, as well as existing social media postings.

If we have to wait for a French investigation to conclude before anyone can say anything I think we are going to have to wait a long time!

I was hoping for more direct answers, I'm not sure that anything on here or social media would count as hard evidence.

 

[Grouse]

NB: I think it’s fairly clear what my opinion of the Daily Mail’s “reporting” is.

This witness photographed the light in the van & supposedly saw someone sleeping in it on December 2nd.

Esther was reported missing when she didn’t arrive back in Arreau November 25th.

The authorities in Spain & France deployed impressive SAR resources immediately & only stopped searching when the weather got too bad on December 3rd.

I highly doubt that they did not do at least a basic search of the van before the 2nd, and I don’t see a issue with them re-searching, perhaps more in depth, including on the night of the 2nd.

I do take possibly issue with the reporting from the DM that witness was “fobbed off”/“someone was sleeping in it”. Because DM is well-known (some may say notorious) for embellishing, twisting, spinning witness accounts for sensationalism. We’ve seen it in other cases, but usually we’re able to x-reference with local/more reputable sources. Unfortunately, reporting other than the Fail seems to have gone quiet

IMO, it’s perfectly possible that police didn’t follow up with this witness, or simply said “thanks we know”, because they DID know exactly why the lights were on etc.

I’ll add, for those who may not know already, the DM pays (handsomely) for this sort of witness account/photos.

Yes it could all be as you say.

On their website they do have ads saying they pay for stuff like videos so might encourage people to go snapping pics I suppose. I'm guessing that's how they got the cctv footage from the shop which didn't really add anything IMO other than a from a voyeuristic aspect.

 

[Huffbuff]

Nothing much new but people that knew her liked her. Also a quote “Three weeks after her disappearance, Dingley’s friends and family will be hoping one phrase on her blog is prophetic. It reads: “Not all those who wander are lost.”

'We have nothing': police stumped by disappearance of Briton in Pyrenees

 

[PeggyHenry]

Please do, I'll be interested to read anything you find. I know some have seen commenting on this as being over critical of the police investigation, but I keep coming back to it as it seems one of the oddest things I have read on the case.

The light on the van was on at 7PM. 3 hours later it was still on and there was someone sleeping in there. The police initially fob off the witness, than later confirm when pressed that it was related to their activity.

And 3 plus hours to examine the van?

Well, I can not find the report which mentions brown hair and I've searched for a long time. I know in my own mind that I'm not mistaken but I wish I could find proof. I think the mystery sleeper is significant to the case. JMO.

 

[Sjm_qc]

If we have to wait for a French investigation to conclude before anyone can say anything I think we are going to have to wait a long time!

I was hoping for more direct answers, I'm not sure that anything on here or social media would count as hard evidence.

The French “ouverture d’enquête”, or “investigation”, is SOP based on them receiving a report of a missing person & launching considerable SAR resources.

It doesn’t even mean there’s anything nefarious being seriously considered. It’s just how their legal & investigative procedures & system work.

Anyway, the Spanish authorities are in charge of the case, the French are auxiliary & the opening of an investigation on their side is, IMO, most likely to facilitate any checking that needs to be done.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Nothing much new but people that knew her liked her. Also a quote “Three weeks after her disappearance, Dingley’s friends and family will be hoping one phrase on her blog is prophetic. It reads: “Not all those who wander are lost.”

'We have nothing': police stumped by disappearance of Briton in Pyrenees

Oh Dear, and I’d been hoping The Guardian would update & then they do this wishy-washy cobbled together not great “report” which contradicts several previous, reputable reports. Including their own

ETA: I see a fact-checking email inquiry in my immediate plans...

 

[Huffbuff]

Oh Dear, and I’d been hoping The Guardian would update & then they do this wishy-washy cobbled together not great “report” which contradicts several previous, reputable reports. Including their own

ETA: I see a fact-checking email inquiry in my immediate plans...

... and three journalists on the by-line!

 

[Sjm_qc]

... and three journalists on the by-line!

That’s actually helpful, now I’ve stopped rolling my eyes. I may have a ‘Kevin Bacon Six Degrees’ sort of link in there.

 

[ZaZara]

Oh Dear, and I’d been hoping The Guardian would update & then they do this wishy-washy cobbled together not great “report” which contradicts several previous, reputable reports. Including their own

ETA: I see a fact-checking email inquiry in my immediate plans...

Indeed. This is sloppy journalism if ever there was some. One might be tempted to withold praise (once again, I'd say.)

LE have nothing?

LE know the location & time where she was last seen and made contact with her partner. (Spain)
They know that she did not arrive at her next destination. (in France)
No phone movements since
No bank account movements since (my wild guess, since everybody would be relieved if there had been)
Freezing temperatures and 50 cm of snow

The Spanish GREIM, part of the Guardia Civíl, are experts in their field, dedicatecd units who work in Search and Rescue in mountains, caves and water.

Throughout 2019, the Guardia Civil's Mountain Service carried out 981 rescues in which the bodies of 127 fatalities were recovered and 607 injured and 715 unharmed were helped. These interventions took place throughout Spain, although most of them (42.2%) were in Aragon.

Benasque is in Aragon. Benasque is a black spot due to the number of accidents and fatalities in the mountains.

Over 50% of those rescued in 2019 were not prepared for the activities that they were doing.

I've been reading a lot. 12 Persons rescued in 9 interventions in one weekend in august, all in a days work. And on it goes.

BTW, collaborating with other parties, including foreign parties, is in their founding papers.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I’ve lost the post I was replying to, but my answer was: Esther didn’t switch her phone off, according to early reports. She switched it to airplane mode to save the battery. A tactic I use myself when away camping or at festivals.