Tammi Smith - the Sentencing Phase

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daisynae said:
Thanks for that it gets confusing at times.
well at least we know she is working on both cases.
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And both cases are inter-connected, so the prosecution asking for a continuance probably has to do with a mountain of information to sift through at this stage of the trial. Just the amount of letters must be huge, judging that they are listed in a separate category altogether.
 
ChickenPants said:
And both cases are inter-connected, so the prosecution asking for a continuance probably has to do with a mountain of information to sift through at this stage of the trial. Just the amount of letters must be huge, judging that they are listed in a separate category altogether.
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?
So what would Elizabeths case have to do with Tammi's July 6th court date? She has already been found guilty.
Why would the State be asking to continue on Tammi's case?
 
daisynae said:
?
So what would Elizabeths case have to do with Tammi's July 6th court date? She has already been found guilty.
Why would the State be asking to continue on Tammi's case?
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A Motion for Continuance is submitted when the party (in this case the Prosecutor) wants a delay in an upcoming hearing. There are many reasons for continuances. One reason is that new evidence has been found. Since they are asking to delay the sentencing hearing, they've probably obtained additional information that can be used as aggravators, reasons they can argue she should be put in jail or prison, such as letters and other new information.

Here's a link that explains Motion for Continuance:

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/continuance

We do not know what their Motion for Continuance says. If the same attorneys are prosecuting Elizabeth, it makes sense that some of the information they have received may apply to their prosecution of Elizabeth as well.
 
Thank You Chicken Pants! You reaaly know your stuff!
Thanks for not making me feel low in asking the question!
 
daisynae said:
Thank You Chicken Pants! You reaaly know your stuff!
Thanks for not making me feel low in asking the question!
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I don't know my stuff any more than people on here (who have a lot more background than I have) - I use google a lot.

Why would anybody want to make a person feel low for asking a question? The only way we get to the truth is by asking questions. Only arrogant people, or ignorant people, or people who wanted to hide something would refuse to answer questions. The people on WS don't seem to fit into any of those categories, just MO.
 
FYI here are the Arizona sentencing guidelines. A careful review of them seems to suggest that Tammi Smith is going to be incarcerated. She has already been convicted as guilty in the aggravating phase of the trial. The guidelines suggest that if she has been found guilty of even ONE aggravator, the is eligible for jail. In reviewing the mitigators for sentencing, it appears as though she would not have enough to outweigh the aggravators, and the judge is obliged to give the greater penalty.

If anyone reads this differently, I'd be interested in your opinion.
http://law.onecle.com/arizona/criminal-code/13-701.html
 
I meant to say as well, that they ALREADY have enough aggravating factors to incarcerate Tammi...so...if the prosecution has requested a continuance to add more evidence of wrongdoing, letters, information, etc., it seems pretty evident case closed.
 
ChickenPants said:
I meant to say as well, that they ALREADY have enough aggravating factors to incarcerate Tammi...so...if the prosecution has requested a continuance to add more evidence of wrongdoing, letters, information, etc., it seems pretty evident case closed.
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I hope it will be case closed. Friday is not too far away now.
She must be scared. Never scared enough to tell the truth!
Her becoming a minister has me scared for her if she goes to jail.
If she think she will go there and say she is on a mission from GOD
she may not last very long before someone gives her a problem.
I always here that people find GOD in jail maybe she will join that group.
Do you think they will keep her in isolation like they did with Misty Commings for awhile she was a high profile case like Tammi.
I think she is now in general population
 
ChickenPants said:
I meant to say as well, that they ALREADY have enough aggravating factors to incarcerate Tammi...so...if the prosecution has requested a continuance to add more evidence of wrongdoing, letters, information, etc., it seems pretty evident case closed.
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I agree.

And since Tammi's sentence could be jail or prison, I wonder if she wouldn't be better off being sentenced to prison.

I can't even imagine how quickly she would get under Sheriff Joe Arpaio's nerves in jail - she might find herself in tent city real quick....

In tent city, in the summer 115 degree heat AND being served the mystery loaf....
 
daisynae said:
I hope it will be case closed. Friday is not too far away now.
She must be scared. Never scared enough to tell the truth!
Her becoming a minister has me scared for her if she goes to jail.
If she think she will go there and say she is on a mission from GOD
she may not last very long before someone gives her a problem.
I always here that people find GOD in jail maybe she will join that group.
Do you think they will keep her in isolation like they did with Misty Commings for awhile she was a high profile case like Tammi.
I think she is now in general population
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Everyone has their own personal opinion of what should happen, but it's in the hands of prosecutors and The Judge. As for what Tammi would do if she went to jail, who knows? You can only guess about a person based on what they've done so far. It SEEMS that since prosecutors are asking for a continuance, they must have good reasons.

I don't know what jails decide about where to put prisoners (isolation or general population) but maybe somebody else following the case does. Arizona is a very tough state and their programs are controversial, extremely tough on all offenders, whether they're missionaries or not. So if you're scared for her, I guess you have good reasons to be.
 
artsy1 said:
I agree.

And since Tammi's sentence could be jail or prison, I wonder if she wouldn't be better off being sentenced to prison.

I can't even imagine how quickly she would get under Sheriff Joe Arpaio's nerves in jail - she might find herself in tent city real quick....

In tent city, in the summer 115 degree heat AND being served the mystery loaf....
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Well, all I can say is some people think they are invincible for whatever reason. The thing is, if you don't want to do time, don't commit the crime. What makes me sad is her children didn't ask to be born and thrust into this mess. And IMO if her husband chooses to stand by her and proclaim her innocence in spite of the verdict of the courts, he's the one who's going to have to help them deal with "mommy is a missionary" lifestyle. Not fair to them, IMHO.
 
ChickenPants said:
Well, all I can say is some people think they are invincible for whatever reason. The thing is, if you don't want to do time, don't commit the crime. What makes me sad is her children didn't ask to be born and thrust into this mess. And IMO if her husband chooses to stand by her and proclaim her innocence in spite of the verdict of the courts, he's the one who's going to have to help them deal with "mommy is a missionary" lifestyle. Not fair to them, IMHO.
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Again, I agree. I think it was very sad that Tammi never took anyone else into consideration when she did what she did, and continues to do what she does. If she cared about H and now S, she would think twice about the things she does.

However, when you think you are above the law because in your mind you have a "Christian intent" rather than a "Criminal intent", you don't believe there will be any consequences for your actions.

IMHO, with the prosecution asking for a continuance, I think the day of reckoning is at hand for Tammi, and her past, present & future will all converge in that courtroom.... And I think no matter what her attorney tells her, she will never "see it coming"....
 
artsy1 said:
Again, I agree. I think it was very sad that Tammi never took anyone else into consideration when she did what she did, and continues to do what she does. If she cared about H and now S, she would think twice about the things she does.

However, when you think you are above the law because in your mind you have a "Christian intent" rather than a "Criminal intent", you don't believe there will be any consequences for your actions.

IMHO, with the prosecution asking for a continuance, I think the day of reckoning is at hand for Tammi, and her past, present & future will all converge in that courtroom.... And I think no matter what her attorney tells her, she will never "see it coming"....
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IMHO people with geunine Christian calling (or even Christian intentions) are not selfish. There are "cafeteria christians" who take everything out of the bible that will benefit them, and reject whatever does not fit with their agenda. Depending on how far they go with that and how many other people they can rope into their message, the jails are full of "ministers" and "missionaries". Their cells aren't any different from those of the other convicted criminals. True christians do tend to follow the law, I think.

AS for her attorneys, it seems to me that even before a continuance would be granted, their task is insurmountable.
 
ChickenPants said:
IMHO people with geunine Christian calling (or even Christian intentions) are not selfish. There are "cafeteria christians" who take everything out of the bible that will benefit them, and reject whatever does not fit with their agenda. Depending on how far they go with that and how many other people they can rope into their message, the jails are full of "ministers" and "missionaries". Their cells aren't any different from those of the other convicted criminals. True christians do tend to follow the law, I think.
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Well said....
 
artsy1 said:
Well said....
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I hope we get an answer from all of the motions soon.
The 4th of July is Wed.
so people will be gearing up for that so do you think the judge wiil make up his mind before the 6th on continuing the sentencing . Or will he just hear arguements on the 6th?
 
daisynae said:
I hope we get an answer from all of the motions soon.
The 4th of July is Wed.
so people will be gearing up for that so do you think the judge wiil make up his mind before the 6th on continuing the sentencing . Or will he just hear arguements on the 6th?
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I am not sure I understand your question. The judge won't "just hear the arguments" on the 6th unless he has made up his mind to either deny or approve the continuance. They've submitted their motions and one was defense's request for Oral Argument from what I can tell. I'm no expert on these procedures so as far as I know they could be arguing in chambers but I'd think the denial or approval of the Motion would show up somewhere.

The fact is jury already convicted Tammi GUILTY on 2 aggravators. All of the letters and additional evidence they have collected only builds their case, and since there seem to be no mitigating circumstances the judge will be obliged to give the most punitive sentence according Arizona law. That's just my understanding after studying the applicable law (link above).
 
In a discussion about what we think the Judge might do .... there's no way to read his mind...it would help if we had a record of his past decisions from the bench. But we have to also remember that even if he tends to be lenient, his first obligation is to adhere to the sentencing laws. He has to apply those laws and in this case, aggravators have already been proven.

IMO if he wants to be lenient, he has to consider the defendant's character and the likelihood that she will not commit this type of crime again. The only way IMO this can be proven is evidence that the defendant understands the seriousness of the convicted offenses, sincere remorse and some indication that she has already demonstrated behaviors that satisfy the court she will not continue the kinds of activities that resulted in the crime. I would think that defense would put this forward and prosecutors would argue it with their own evidence.
 
LOL....at the risk of talking to myself, I'll say it's difficult to express remorse when on the other hand you insist you are innocent. That's like saying: "I'm sorry that YOU all don't understand that I didn't do anything wrong". And then, if we all remember Tammi's insistence before, during and after the trial, that God was on her side and that she was in God's Will....you could add to the apology: "And I'm sorry you all don't understand I'm just doing what God tells me to do, so I will pray for you."

I didn't find one thing in the Arizona Penal Code that deals with God's will, so if somebody else can get around this, please let me know.
 
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