The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[johnjay]

I haven't had the chance to finish watching. I have seen the Dr. Phil interviews though, and am in agreement with many that I find Burke's demeanor disturbing.

What I have seen so far, it looks like it's confirming what I already believed. Burke did it. Accident, or intentional, big question mark. Then a big screwed up cover up by guilt ridden parents. Regardless, I place all the blame on them. PR was completely obsessed with JB's pageant thing, how silly, how trivial, how self-centered. I think she forgot to be a real mother to both of her children.

Burt was the baby, then JB came along and it shattered his world. He was a child, all he knew was that he was no longer the apple of their eye. So to him he became invisible. Neglected because of his "beauty queen" sister, all because of his ex-beauty queen mother who so desperately wanted to vicariously live her life through her little girl. How tragic. :tears:

Burke was just a child, he needed as much love and attention as his sister, but didn't get it. I hope he's getting help, and my heart aches for him. JMO

The GJ indictment had the parents assisting a person cover up a 'murder in the first Degree and Child abuse resulting in Death." It doesn't sound to me like they thought it was an accident, and they had evidence we don't have.

 

[Tortoise]

Basic question: why write a ransom note if u know your daughter is dead within the house?

Cant u just say to police, my daughter is missing...

If you tell police your 6 year old daughter is missing it's very unlikely she would have run away from home so the most obvious thing the police would do would be to search every inch of the house. On the other hand if you tell police you have some kind of proof she is not still in the home, you stand a good chance of avoiding the search. The focus goes to outside the home.

 

[Geronimo]

To explain her death and to point at someone else OR to explain why she is missing. I still think it is possible that JR himself broke the window and tried to remove the body from the house using that suitcase.

But it doesnt explain her death, some sort of death threat would have done that. Like "I murdered your daughter cause your a *advertiser censored* John. Victory!" That would make sense. A ransom note explains missing, but thats just temporary unless your plan is to remove her from the house, but then why "find" her later!?!? Its just not logical, especially given that a handwritten 3 page ransom note is so probably incriminating.

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't believe for a second that a man of his means would break a window to get into his own house. He'd call a locksmith, or yes, a neighbor who had a key. I'm not a millionaire who can easily afford a locksmith, but I did lock myself out of my home last weekend and shattering one of my windows was not remotely near the top of my list of possible solutions. I'd have paid a locksmith before I'd pay for window repair.

He broke that window as part of the staging. I don't think he attempted to get the suitcase through it because the spider webs likely would have been wiped out if he had. I think he just did it to create the illusion that an intruder entered there (of course not disturbing the spider web.....).

I have to disagree with you here. I don't know how long a locksmith takes but I'd imagine at times it's a lot quicker to break into your own house then waiting for them. I've never broken a window to get access to my house, but I'm tiny and can fit in small spaces. I have however crawled through a cellar window before as a teen when I was locked out after school. As an adult I've gotten locked out with young kids with me, because my car key and cell phone were inside and where time was vital....and I had to break in by hopping a fence, clearing snow off the bulkhead which was fortunately unlatched and got in that way. Never once did I think to call someone else with a key, or to call a locksmith. If I couldn't find a way in I likely would have gone there, but my first thought was to deal with it myself.

Also my neighbors son as an adult was suppose to stay at his parents house while they were away, somehow got locked out and broke a window pain in the side door to gain access. Imagine my surprised at age 12 going over to feed the cats and finding broken glass.

The point is breaking into your own home, I think is not that uncommon, even if it required breaking glass. But it seems in my experience men are more likely to go to the extent of breaking a window to gain access. Perhaps it goes to that not wanting to ask for help thing....like with directions...

 

[madeleine]

The GJ indictment had the parents assisting a person cover up a 'murder in the first Degree and Child abuse resulting in Death." It doesn't sound to me like they thought it was an accident, and they had evidence we don't have.

Here's my confusion re the indictment. First degree means intent, no? And this means it wasn't just an accident like many BDI' s believe?

 

[TTF14]

There are so many unanswered questions re this. Did the officers who checked the basement report seeing a broken window? Did they notice the suitcase underneath.?

If JR broke the window to point at an intruder why didn't he IMMEDiATELY call Arndt to show it to her?

He brought it up how many months later?Why??

Yeah, I don't know.....I don't know why he'd break the window to make it look like an intruder, but then go and admit he broke the window himself......it doesn't really make sense unless he knew there'd be evidence of him breaking it (i.e. his blood on it or something). But I still don't believe he broke into his own house the summer before.

 

[RL2]

Great question, I assume the Patsy accidentally killed her camp think its from a stair or bathroom fall. Though, i must say that the CBS flashlight bashing demonstration and autopsy evidence was pretty compelling

Oh, I certainly think Patsy could have smashed her on the head with that flashlight if that was the closest item at the time..

 

[Tortoise]

Never posted about this...but if you forget your keys is this what you normally do? Break windows and get in? I thought you might call your wife, maid or relative, people had keys to that house.

He said he returned in a taxi near midnight from a business trip. Patsy and the kids were away, during August. He felt it was too late to knock on neighbour's doors to get the spare key from them.

 

[TTF14]

Here's my confusion re the indictment. First degree means intent, no? And this means it wasn't just an accident like many BDI' s believe?

Maybe the fact that there appeared to be two methods of murder - the head injury and the strangling. Strangling points to intent for sure. A hit on the head, maybe not.

 

[johnjay]

According to the ransom note, the intruders or kidnappers were long gone. So it's safe to say he was totally safe and secure in his room especially with all the folks downstairs

And we all know that we can trust what people who kidnap little girls and leave ransom notes say so obviously he was totally safe and secure in his room. It does no good to get an A in logic and F in judgement - no no - life is not a computer to be programmed.

 

[madeleine]

Maybe the fact that there appeared to be two methods of murder - the head injury and the strangling. Strangling points to intent for sure. A hit on the head, maybe not.

If she was pushed and fell into something then I guess I could believe it was some sort of accident. But if she was hit with something, dunno, there already is intent when picking the object up..imo

 

[johnjay]

Think through that. Hmmmm.....

What is the point of the family writing a fake ransom note if they know she is dead and they have placed her in the cellar?

John and/or Patsy kill her, or finish what Burke did. They make it look like someone else did it. And there she is down there.......then early in the morning PR calls the police to say her daughter is missing from her bedroom. The 911 person tells her to look all over the house. They "find" her, and then ring 911 again to tell them, as the police are on there way. So...that is the script - without the ransom note. The ransom note is a misdirect.

I'm trying to think of what thought processes either one of them would have, though. It most definitely is a "misdirect" ploy. So that is what the plan is: misdirect away from the family. But on their own on their own notepad, using their own pen!? Leaving the murder weapon (torch) there ? If they were that scatterbrained in their thinking, its amazing they did not fall apart very quickly afterwards. I would have thought making it look like a break in would seem to be 10 times more an effective at the time. And not disposing of the murder weapon. That is hard to figure out.

Why argue with success, it worked.

 

[ThinkHard]

The GJ indictment had the parents assisting a person cover up a 'murder in the first Degree and Child abuse resulting in Death." It doesn't sound to me like they thought it was an accident, and they had evidence we don't have.

Murder in the first degree would mean that they believe whoever killed her, had premeditated the crime, rather then acted out in rage? Would that be correct?

 

[johnjay]

True. Which makes me wonder, did they show everything or are they keeping some bombshells for the trial?

I suspect they tempered what they said so that it wouldn't cross into territory their legal department was uncomfortable with. We certainly didn't get Kolar's implied theory from the show.

 

[passionflower]

http://blabbieville.tripod.com/1995xmasnewsletter.txt

Patsy is quite the wordsmith. Interesting.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

John and Patsy Ramsey 1995 Christmas Newsletter

Twas a week before Christmas with a million things to do, And wouldn't you
know it, Mom came down with the flu. Fortunately the gifts were all gotten and
under the tree, But the Christmas cards didn't make it - as you can well see! So
we'll take this opportunity to extend the Holiday Cheer. And be the first to wish
you a Healthy & Happy New Year!

We've finally given in to the computerized form letter! What better way to
keep the high-tech industry in business!? Speaking of business, John and
Access are going great guns. Europe has been successfully conquered with
offices in every country except Norway! Mexico & Canada opened too. (Can
you believe this grew out of our garage on Northridge?) Anyway, John was
rewarded by parent company, Lockheed-Martin, by being elected an office
of the company.

All work and no play make John a dull boy, so he leaves plenty of time for the
latter. This year John, John Andrew, and Melinda took the crew of the Miss
America (our sailing sloop) to victories in the NOOD Races in Chicago and a
4th place division finish of the Chicago-Mackinac Island Race. Seventy-knot
winds in the Mac race really made the finish line look pretty good! John Andrew
is a freshman at CU here in Boulder, and Melinda is due to complete her Nursing
Degree from MCG [Medical College of Georgia] in Augusta next June.

Burke is busy in his third grade year at a new school named High Peaks. It is a
Core Knowledge school which accesses high academics and personal achievement.
He loves it! He continues with Boy Scouting and the piano. This winter he is the
tallest guy on his basketball team. Summer on Charlevoix was spent taking golf
and sailing lessons each day. Burke is quite the sailor!

JonBenet too had a busy summer in Charlevoix. She was crowned Little Miss
Charlevoix in a pageant in June and spent the rest of the summer riding in convertibles
in various home-town parades throughout Michigan. She performed a patriotic tap &
song for her talent. She and Burke both won ribbons in several decorated bicycle
contests. In October, JonBenet become Little Miss Colorado, she rode on the
"Good Ship Lollipop" float during the Boulder Christmas parade. (Grandpa Paugh
built the float!) She waved and sang all along the parade route! She also takes piano,
violin, and drama classes. Busy little Pre-kindergartener![sic] (Busy Mom hauling
her around!)

I continue to have good check-ups at NIH in Bethesda, MD. God has surely blessed
me with energy and the ability to return to raising a family. I thank Him every morning
when I wake up and see the sunrise reflecting on the Flatirons over Boulder. Please
continue to keep us in your prayers.

Hope your Christmas was merry and here's to 1996! By the time you read this we'll be
cheering on the Buffs at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas and then on to the Fiesta Bowl in
Phoenix! Thanks to everyone who visited us in Colorado or Charlevoix this year.
Please come see us in 1996! Love to you all!

The Ramseys

BBM.........reminds me of RN "VICTORY!"
and notice PR rattles on about JBR more than anything in this letter

 

[TTF14]

Murder in the first degree would mean that they believe whoever killed her, had premeditated the crime, rather then acted out in rage? Would that be correct?

Pre-meditation can happen in a second.

 

[johnjay]

and no one bothered to clean up the glass..

In a kids playroom!

 

[Tortoise]

But it doesnt explain her death, some sort of death threat would have done that. Like "I murdered your daughter cause your a *advertiser censored* John. Victory!" That would make sense. A ransom note explains missing, but thats just temporary unless your plan is to remove her from the house, but then why "find" her later!?!? Its just not logical, especially given that a handwritten 3 page ransom note is so probably incriminating.

IMO he found her later because he wasn't getting the opportunity he needed to remove her body from the house. The police stayed there, they didn't leave him alone to do it. The smell of decomposition would have been apparent pretty shortly to anyone going down to the basement. If cadaver dogs had been brought in they would have surely reacted in that vicinity.

 

[andreww]

I disagree with that, someone could have still entered the house for sexual deviancy. Women with housemates have been raped and killed. This was a 7k squarefoot home--huge. Perhaps the wouldbe killer was homeless or had a wife, and so in house was the best option.

We'll have to disagree on that. Show me one other case where an intruder has spent hours in a home. You also have to come up with a viable point of entry, then explain why the Ramseys lied about so many things that morning. That spiderweb still runs across the window, so again the question is HOW DID HE GET IN?

 

[andreww]

IMO he found her later because he wasn't getting the opportunity he needed to remove her body from the house. The police stayed there, they didn't leave him alone to do it. The smell of decomposition would have been apparent pretty shortly to anyone going down to the basement. If cadaver dogs had been brought in they would have surely reacted in that vicinity.

Don't think there was ever a plan to remove her or else they would have done that prior to the 911 call.