The Case, so far...

[daffodil]

Of course, innocent unless proven guilty applies in the law. But if we look back on many of the forums here (Natalee Holloway comes to mind), it is apparent that some posters who are more than happy to give the McCanns the benefit of the doubt were quite eager to believe other suspects (Joran and the Kalpoes, for example) guilty with little or no evidence. People who believe the McCanns to be innocent despite evidence to the contrary are not defending child killers. Nor were those who thought J2K innocent indicating their approval of making teenagers disappear.

As I dont know what you are talking about I cant be classed as the ones you are referencing.:waitasec:

 

[daffodil]

I agree the facts of this case are few and far between which is why it makes such a nonesense of all the wild accusations.
As for not being cleared...They haven't been charged with anything for the simple reason there is no evidence against them.

As for OJ. He was charged and tried. And Yes I believe he was guilty.
I may not always agree with a Jury. Some people walk for various reasons when they shouldn't.
But my conclusion in OJ's case was based on "evidence" presented in court.

:clap: :clap:

 

[gord]

At the end of the day wither you think they are innocent guilty not sure or whatever - the case is still in the balance - We are all just piecing together bits and pieces from what we can find on line and in the papers -

No-one is right or wrong - all we have is our own gut feel and that is absolutely fine - I have been very interested to see the many theories that have been discussed -

As you all know my own " gut feel " is that they didnt do it - I could be fantasticly wrong , I suppose that is thing about sleuthing from afar - you just interpret what you see and make a judgement .

I have said it before and will say it again IF the Mcaans are deep in it - and there can be no middle ground here if the are involved it is big time , then they have pulled of so far one of the biggest cons to date - they have kept the combined forces of PJ and also Brit Police - they have managed to dispose of a body and yet leave no trace ( caveat - YET ) they have faced the world media and manage to keep a lie that big going this long

or they could just be telling the truth .

On to tomorrow and see what lies

 

[Morag]

As I dont know what you are talking about I cant be classed as the ones you are referencing.:waitasec:

I'm sure those whom I was referencing recognize themselves! The case I was referring to has gone on for years, no evidence nor charges, but some are inclined to believe the boys guilty. Be happy that you have not viewed the sad mess that the Holloway case has become; I only hope that Madeleine's case is solved some day.

 

[Desertpea]

Of course, innocent unless proven guilty applies in the law. But if we look back on many of the forums here (Natalee Holloway comes to mind), it is apparent that some posters who are more than happy to give the McCanns the benefit of the doubt were quite eager to believe other suspects (Joran and the Kalpoes, for example) guilty with little or no evidence. People who believe the McCanns to be innocent despite evidence to the contrary are not defending child killers. Nor were those who thought J2K innocent indicating their approval of making teenagers disappear.

At this stage, I believe the 'McCanns to be innocent despite the evidence to the contrary'.

Despite the evidence?
What evidence?
If the PJ really had anything against the McCanns, they would be on trial for the death of their daughter.
Are they?
No because there is no evidence, just leaks from a desperate police force that really has no idea what happened to Madeleine.

I don't follow the Halloway case.

 

[colomom]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/evidence

ev·i·dence (v-dns)
n.
1. A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment: The broken window was evidence that a burglary had taken place. Scientists weigh the evidence for and against a hypothesis.
2. Something indicative; an outward sign: evidence of grief on a mourner's face.
3. Law The documentary or oral statements and the material objects admissible as testimony in a court of law.

Evidence is not the same as proof. Morag's use of the word is reasonable, IMO.

 

[Texana]

We don't know yet what the Portuguese police have in the way of evidence. Even with our more open laws in the U.S., key facts are often kept from public knowledge until an actual trial.

 

[philamena]

At the end of the day wither you think they are innocent guilty not sure or whatever - the case is still in the balance - We are all just piecing together bits and pieces from what we can find on line and in the papers -
.... Snip
....they have faced the world media and manage to keep a lie that big going this long

or they could just be telling the truth .

On to tomorrow and see what lies

Excellent post Gord.

 

[Rino]

No because there is no evidence, just leaks from a desperate police force that really has no idea what happened to Madeleine.

That is the same wishful thinking that keeps the McCann media machine going

 

[Desertpea]

That is the same wishful thinking that keeps the McCann media machine going

I'd like to see all the evidence that Madeleine is dead and her parents killed her, so far I haven't seen any.

How is that wishful thinking Rino? I don't quite understand what you meant.

 

[dingo]

Wheres the evidence that they didnt kill her DP?....this works both ways.

 

[Shazza]

Why are they suspects if they are innocent, there must be some proof we are not privvy to that makes them a suspect.

 

[Desertpea]

Wheres the evidence that they didnt kill her DP?....this works both ways.

I don't have any evidence that proves they didn't kill their daughter, but we presume innocence until proven guilty, so that's what I'm doing.

 

[dingo]

And thats your right but some of us arent letting them off that easy.

 

[Desertpea]

Why are they suspects if they are innocent, there must be some proof we are not privvy to that makes them a suspect.

The parents were always going to be suspects in this case they work from the inside out, family and friends to associates etc

I just don't see anything concrete on the parents yet, as far as I can tell their only crime is being crap parents having made a monumental error leaving their kids alone that night.
Their behaviour after the fact does not equal them being killers and or knowing what happened to Maddie.

 

[Shazza]

The parents were always going to be suspects in this case they work from the inside out, family and friends to associates etc

I just don't see anything concrete on the parents yet, as far as I can tell their only crime is being crap parents having made a monumental error leaving their kids alone that night.
Their behaviour after the fact does not equal them being killers and or knowing what happened to Maddie.

If that being the case then the their friends or some of them should be made suspects too as they were suppose to be checking the children throughout the night, and their stories have varied throughout this case which is cause to suspect suspicion.

 

[Tuba]

Both Pat Brown & the British criminalists think that a local predator is responsible if this is a case of kidnap. Due to knowledge & opportunity & connections, I agree w. that assessment. I'm not comfortable with Robert Murat but hesitate to finger him as a predator who initiated such a crime. I think it may be person unknown. Looking at the parents as suspects, it is Gerry McCann who disturbs me more. Even though he seems to have had a jolly relationship w. Madeleine, he has been disconnected and evidencing a lack of attachment since the week after 3 May, as Pat Brown says. And what is this rush to return to normalcy! If he wants to put the tragedy behind him, he must be most impatient with Kate's anguish and sorrow which are a constant reminder that Madeleine is gone. His temper has been visible in news footage and I think he uses it as the threat behind his domination. Even O'Brien has said that Gerry McCann wants to control the release of information from all of the Tapas 9. On the night of 3 May, the staff at the restaurant describe Gerry as crying (tears) and bellowing. I don't think those reactions were fake. Like all the jogging, which to me is running away from the event, I think he is trying to escape the awful truth and it cannot be done. It may be his attempt to preserve sanity.

 

[colomom]

Both Pat Brown & the British criminalists think that a local predator is responsible if this is a case of kidnap. Due to knowledge & opportunity & connections, I agree w. that assessment. I'm not comfortable with Robert Murat but hesitate to finger him as a predator who initiated such a crime. I think it may be person unknown. Looking at the parents as suspects, it is Gerry McCann who disturbs me more. Even though he seems to have had a jolly relationship w. Madeleine, he has been disconnected and evidencing a lack of attachment since the week after 3 May, as Pat Brown says. And what is this rush to return to normalcy! If he wants to put the tragedy behind him, he must be most impatient with Kate's anguish and sorrow which are a constant reminder that Madeleine is gone. His temper has been visible in news footage and I think he uses it as the threat behind his domination. Even O'Brien has said that Gerry McCann wants to control the release of information from all of the Tapas 9. On the night of 3 May, the staff at the restaurant describe Gerry as crying (tears) and bellowing. I don't think those reactions were fake. Like all the jogging, which to me is running away from the event, I think he is trying to escape the awful truth and it cannot be done. It may be his attempt to preserve sanity.

:clap: Good thinking Tuba.

 

[Tuba]

As we all know, the PJ announced that the Tapas 9 definitely know Robert Murat. I haven't been able to unearth much on these individuals but James Garrod of Exeter who specializes in real property law is a good friend of Russell O'Brien's and he is registered at The Ocean Club during the stay of the 9. Murat deals in real property. Des Taylor of Exeter is an architect who contributed to the Murat villa in PDL. He knows Js. Garrod. It would be very easy for an investigator in Exeter to quiz the associates or staffs of these individuals to learn if there was acquaintance. Maybe that is what they did. Js. Garrod had a car at his disposal but I haven't been able to find out anything about it.

 

[Tuba]

His name is Gorrod, not Garrod. I don't think the dogs were ever exposed to his car but it was investigated and cleared. The police particularly wanted to know if it matched the description of a car in the car park adjoining the children's window at 5A. Gorrod's is an Opel Corsa and had not been seen in the park. But he is one more person tying Murat to O'Brien and various Exeter figures with interests in PDL. More than the interest of this network of people is the motive to deny the associations.