The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 24th June - Trial Day 9, Week 3

[FigTree]

ETA - putting in the right quote...

And the drag marks are???? Those leaves on the patio look pretty undisturbed and random to me. And wouldn't it be obvious if it was through the wet grass? That would be hard to cover up I would have thought.

It would depend on when the plant matter entangled into the hair.

If there had been some rucus on the ground between Allison and her offender - there would be plant material on Allisons shoes, clothing and skin which would also match the plant material (to some extent) in her hair - even minute soil/twig/bark deposits and smears prior to Allison being incapacitated.

If Allison was incapacitated somewhere else very close to the plant material
Just possibly... when Allison was being moved...

Allison was elevated enough for her body not to leave a drag mark, but low enough for her tangled hair to make contact with the leaf material. If she was carried/lifted it may mean there would be no obvious drag marks on the ground or on her back/front of her jumper and pants, or wear marks on her shoes...
or
she was transported in something with wheels that was used in the garden - like a wheel barrow or garden trolley, even a wheely bin - something like that may contain bits of all 6 garden matter after cleaning the garden up, or s kids recreational ride-on (something with wheels)
or
Allison was lifted by her arms and by her feet - with her head dragging and her hair collecting the foliage and leaves as she went.
That would take two people to do...

.

 

[MadDoc]

The last time I asked my doctor about serotonin syndrome he laughed...

I have only seen one case of serotonin syndrome - when I was a hospital intern, and a patient was transferred from the psychiatric ward to intensive care, after being changed over too quickly from high doses of one antidepressant to another. She was very sick for a few days and had the ICU team worried. But I have never seen it out in GP-land, even with people taking quite generous doses of antidepressants and other medications (mood stabilizers, painkillers) in combination.

It's not really common but potentially very serious when it occurs. For the defence team to throw the term around in the context of someone who supposedly took too much Zoloft and then walked 14km to a bridge and jumped off, shows they have never seen a person with the condition.

 

[Snails]

In post 640 on this thread there is a picture of the crashed car and GBC walking with a bag strap over his shoulder. It appears the bag is either a backpack (with only one shoulder strap in use) or a cross-body bag (like a gym bag or a soft sided briefcase) worn over the shoulder instead of across the body. I was thinking this type of strap could cause the neck and chest 'injuries' seen on GBC. Perhaps he tried to leave the house and ABC grabbed at the bag to hold him back (e.g. they were in the middle of an argument and he tried to leave with her trying to stop him). This could have escalated into a physical altercation resulting in her murder.



Also, someone mentioned money laundering. I believe there are laws setting thresholds for reporting transactions/transfers of funds above a certain amount. Perhaps the threshold in Australia is over $90,000?

Good question. I believe the "cash transaction" reporting threshold is $10000 but I don't know what other transaction thresholds are. No time to google it as I'm off to zzzzzzz land

 

[Neuromancer]

If someone was having a humdinger of an argument, and that someone thought their life was in danger, I very much doubt they would be concerned about disturbing the kids. Just saying.
And Saying a bit more, more likely that same someone might try and scream out at top throttle, hoping that someone, anyone might hear her plight. "Help! Someone, Please HELP me!"

I wasn't saying that - just that one possibility is that they might have been out there talking initially. Fights can escalate from zero to nasty slowly or quickly.

 

[marlywings]

Pictures presented to the court showing leaves on the Baden-Clay’s back patio.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226965646588

 

[marlywings]

Pictures presented to the court showing leaves on the Baden-Clay’s back patio and garage

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226965646588

 

[KG1]

Perhaps Lychee, <modsnip> How did a body get dragged accumulating 6 Species of plant matter from the patio etc and not create a drag mark?
The point is that:
6 species of plant species from the patio etc were found in her hair.
How did that occur?
Don't know, but it did occur. That is a fact.
There were no drag marks? I am not a Boy Scout, just a scrubber from the bush. Scouts might be able to answer that better. Isn't that what Scouts are trained about?

Maybe her body was being carried somehow, perhaps secured to the carrier by something with straps or sleeves, causing marks to chest, armpit area and neck of carrier and the carrier tripped and dropped her body at area where main leaf samples were entangled in hair, then picked up body again and continued to rear of carport, putting her body down again. Recall the two thuds heard by at least one witness. Just my thoughts.

 

[marlywings]

This looks to me like it's the Crepe Myrtle tree on the left. April = autumn so there's very few leaves still on the tree.

Fishbone fern underneath the Crepe Myrtle....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...amily-home-four-days-Allison-disappeared.html

This might be a Chinese Elm. We have several just over the fence on our boundary with Main Roads.

A photograph of the rear patio area showed crepe *myrtle and fishbone fern growing close by.

“You can see the leaf litter there from the crepe myrtles on the patio area,” he said.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226965646588

 

[FigTree]

Thanks for the pictures Marly.
Were the pics from the time of the Police investigation or were they recent do you know? Had you seen these pics earlier on in 2012?

I also note that Alison had some of the plant material on her arms...
though it doesn't say which plants were on her arms - the ones from the house? or the ones from the creek? or both?
If there were traces of plant material from the house on her arms...
This may mean that the jumper had lifted prior to being moved and her arms were left caught up in the jumper. I now wonder if her arms were placed in the jumper like that so as not to drag when being being moved (if that was the case)?

From the article:

Source: Courier Mail. QUEENSLAND&#8217;S leading botanist has testified that leaves from only two of the six plants found clinging to Allison Baden-Clay&#8217;s hair and arms could be found at Kholo Creek where her body lay for up to 11 days.

 

[KG1]

In post 640 on this thread there is a picture of the crashed car and GBC walking with a bag strap over his shoulder. It appears the bag is either a backpack (with only one shoulder strap in use) or a cross-body bag (like a gym bag or a soft sided briefcase) worn over the shoulder instead of across the body. I was thinking this type of strap could cause the neck and chest 'injuries' seen on GBC. Perhaps he tried to leave the house and ABC grabbed at the bag to hold him back (e.g. they were in the middle of an argument and he tried to leave with her trying to stop him). This could have escalated into a physical altercation resulting in her murder.

Also, someone mentioned money laundering. I believe there are laws setting thresholds for reporting transactions/transfers of funds above a certain amount. Perhaps the threshold in Australia is over $90,000?

Threshold is $10,000, but amounts below $10,000 are often reported by financial institutions as suspicious transactions - depends on the drawer/type of transaction and where it is going, such as overseas. Austrac track the funds, in and out of Australia also.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

And maybe even ironed
I wonder how often he did the ironing

I imagine whatever he was wearing that night would have been thrown in the washing machine, dried and put away before morning.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

And the drag marks are???? Those leaves on the patio look pretty undisturbed and random to me. And wouldn't it be obvious if it was through the wet grass? That would be hard to cover up I would have thought.

If GBC allegedly dragged a lifeless Allison along by the feet, her hair collecting debris along the way, I really can't see there being drag marks, even in wet grass. She wasn't that heavy and he has the bulk of her weight in his hands. jmo

 

[marlywings]

The botanist is very thorough!! Excellent work!!

June 25, 2014

The botanist said he returned again and again to the Kholo Creek bridge area to &#8220;confirm&#8221; the other species were not present.

He said his surveys took him to the Bunya St scout camp, where he walked the track to the creek and along the creek towards the bridge.

He said he went back in September and October when the cats claw creeper would be flowering to see if he could find any growing along the creek.

&#8220;Yes, I did go there, just to confirm there was definitely no cats claw creeper there,&#8221; Dr Guymer said.

The court heard the botanist returned again in summer, when the crepe myrtle was in flower.

&#8220;It&#8217;s a good time to double check, confirm,&#8221; he said.

The court heard Dr Guy*mer could not find any crepe myrtle

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226965646588

 

[marlywings]

Thanks for the pictures Marly.
Were the pics from the time of the Police investigation or were they recent do you know? Had you seen these pics earlier on in 2012?

I also note that Alison had some of the plant material on her arms...
though it doesn't say which plants were on her arms - the ones from the house? or the ones from the creek? or both?
If there were traces of plant material from the house on her arms...
This may mean that the jumper had lifted prior to being moved and her arms were left caught up in the jumper. I now wonder if her arms were placed in the jumper like that so as not to drag when being being moved (if that was the case)?


From the article:

These are the first photos we've seen of the plants. The plant matter was mentioned at Committal Hearing last year.

Plant species report summary from Committal Hearing


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*


The house was a crime scene for around 6 or so days from the day Allison was reported missing. Photos of the house/patio/carport/cars etc, I presume, were taken, by police, at some stage back then.

From memory photos of the cars were taken the afternoon of 20thApril or the following morning.

 

[BJsleuth]

in post 640 on this thread there is a picture of the crashed car and gbc walking with a bag strap over his shoulder. It appears the bag is either a backpack (with only one shoulder strap in use) or a cross-body bag (like a gym bag or a soft sided briefcase) worn over the shoulder instead of across the body. I was thinking this type of strap could cause the neck and chest 'injuries' seen on gbc. Perhaps he tried to leave the house and abc grabbed at the bag to hold him back (e.g. They were in the middle of an argument and he tried to leave with her trying to stop him). This could have escalated into a physical altercation resulting in her murder.

Also, someone mentioned money laundering. I believe there are laws setting thresholds for reporting transactions/transfers of funds above a certain amount. Perhaps the threshold in australia is over $90,000?

$10000

 

[PrimeSuspect]

These are the first photos we've seen of the plants. The plant matter was mentioned at Committal Hearing last year.

Plant species report summary from Committal Hearing


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*


The house was a crime scene for around 6 or so days from the day Allison was reported missing. Photos of the house/patio/carport/cars etc, I presume, were taken, by police, at some stage back then.

From memory photos of the cars were taken the afternoon of 20thApril or the following morning.

What a great report of all the leaves collected from Allison, over 13 leaves collected in hair, head area and arms. There is no doubt in my mind Allison was dragged by her feet from rear patio along to carport and then placed in vehicle. jmho

 

[louisepiglet]

If I was a client of those blokes.. I'd be checking my account today. ..

And I bet the wives of those three blokes are not as blase about the $90000 either.

 

[BJsleuth]

Threshold is $10,000, but amounts below $10,000 are often reported by financial institutions as suspicious transactions - depends on the drawer/type of transaction and where it is going, such as overseas. Austrac track the funds, in and out of Australia also.

That's right KG1, because they know there's a mandatory reporting of transactions $10000 and over so they try to circumvent it by making smaller transactions but many systems are set up to detect that too. If not amounts, the frequency and volume of transactions. Certain people's accounts are flagged so that everything is looked at.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Katrina Blowers &#8207;@katrinablowers 49s

Botanist now testifying there was also a 5th plant at #badenclay home and the 6th was found at nearby church. @7NewsBrisbane

I'm still catching up on today.. but I am beginning to wonder if there was an argument- or some kind of danger Allison found herself in with GBC, she tried to get away, and he chased her down. maybe dragging her back to the house..They seemed to pointing out plants surrounding the Baden Clay home and Church next door- not just the carport area(?)

 

[FigTree]

These are the first photos we've seen of the plants. The plant matter was mentioned at Committal Hearing last year.

Plant species report summary from Committal Hearing


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*


The house was a crime scene for around 6 or so days from the day Allison was reported missing. Photos of the house/patio/carport/cars etc, I presume, were taken, by police, at some stage back then.

From memory photos of the cars were taken the afternoon of 20thApril or the following morning.

Great info Marly - thankyou for getting the link.
The good Botanist is being very thorough indeed!

.