The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 8th July - Trial Day 16

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AAAA

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Well the mood around here is a little different to this time yesterday. Ye of little faith some people! I knew today would be very different and it was amazing.

What do we think is left for spunky Todd to cover tomorrow? Thought we could make a bit of a list. I don't mean roundabouts, I mean stuff that has been presented as evidence.

Yep Alioop, I must admit I have been a little dejected about the result until today hammered it home for me. I've even refrained from posting and was scrolling through and not thanking, as the defence was such a SNORE. Great result today. Thanks to you and Doc and all the members. Especially all the mad retweeters! Not to mention the very funny comments. Can't wait for tomorrow, cheers to you all.x
 

BatWoman

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I really feel quite sick after today. I think it's because it's so real. To know everything Allison went through. To know that she fought the black dog and was trying to work out how to make her life work in the circumstances, only to have the person who promised to love and cherish her undermine her and unilaterally decide her life meant nothing. It's sickening. :anguish:

My heart goes out to Allison's family and friends. Justice will prevail.
 

privato

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Yes I've posted similar earlier.
However, was it made clear here by someone that the colour of the screen dot was not indicating the missing phone but rather GBCs phone? This was mentioned, I wasn't clear if that had been confirmed

The A)triangulation of the phone's position, and the
B)search for the phone using the app are two distinctly different processes IMO.

Process B was attempted from early'ish in the day by responding officers using GBC's phone.
Process A occurred later in the day using other network based technology

Could be wrong, but that's how I understood it.
 

drsleuth

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Following on from the notes I took in court today up until the 11.45am break-
Todd Fuller for the prosecution –
“Trials are about people, pressures and circumstances. It is not unknown for someone of good character to step outside that good character and do something unexpected. People under pressure react differently. It involves relationships pressures, mental health pressures and business pressures.
Has this man unlawfully killed his wife? With an intention to kill? You the jury make assessments of people in everyday life but you have been banned from having any relationship with any witnesses - you are restricted to what they say and how they say it.
GBC marriage was a façade. Allison battled to keep the marriage going for years while GBC was living a double life. A deceptive life – slinking around with T McH and Michelle Hammond in front of his parents. That shows what he is capable of doing.
Different faces of GBC – anguished husband. The building pressures on GBC which culminated in the death of his wife. Allison was coping with her pressures but it was the reverse for GBC. Pressures were brought to bear from his wife, T McH, and the business. Not sudden pressures but building pressures, business and relationship pressures.
Allison taking to relationship counsellor Carmel Ritchie about herself – “I am a wife and mother”
GBC to relationship counsellor about himself – “I am the President of the Chamber of Commerce, I am on the school P & C committee, I am the principal of my Real Estate business”
1) Killed wife
2) Unlawfully
3) With intent
Circumstantial evidence – much maligned term – less compelling but can be equally as compelling.
Accumulation of objective facts leads to a conclusion. Like looking at a TV screen up close – lots of dots – but step back and the picture becomes clearer.
Blood in Captiva – 1 in 5600 billion chance it ISN’T Allison’s, but can’t say for sure it is. All the family were tested and it’s not their DNA.
Look at the evidence through the eyes of GBC – treatment for depression, keeping marriage together, male heir. Allison was initially disappointed because she thought GBC would be disappointed not to have a male heir.
Blood, leaves, scratches, extra marital affairs, business pressures.
Allison tells us in death – let’s look at where her body was found.
Body was dumped where it was found over 13 kilometres from home. Kholo Creek runs in the opposite direction to where she was found so for her body to have washed upstream she would have to walk even further. Allison was a reluctant exerciser and we heard the angst over the treadmill purchase. Would she walk over 13 kilometres? GBC told the police that Allison doesn’t like walking up hills. Allison needs to be at the office at 8am to meet Kate Rankin. There was not a single sighting of Allison on that 13 kilometre walk to the bridge.
GBC drove Captiva as it was less suspicious to be in a dark Captiva than a white Prado with personalised number plates. GBC knew Kholo Creek area and needed somewhere nearby to dispose of body. There have been significant changes to the Kholo Creek bridge and surrounds since 2012. It is now a cleared area. It rained just 2 days before the body was found which made the area muddy.
Don’t think about access to under the bridge today – think back to 2012. GBC pulled car over to right hand side of road. The body was pushed off this ledge under the bridge (photos shown here of how the bridge looked in 2012 including photos of Allison’s body lying in situ). The dent in the mud was still visible in May and even August to a lesser extent. There were no signs of disturbance around the body. Allison did not fall from the bridge. She was not suicidal. Dr Milne gave evidence that if Allison had fallen from the bridge she would have sustained a serious injury. Water level under the bridge did not reach the body (tidal charts given jury to look at in own time) – at best, water may have “lapped” the body. If the body was shifted by water there would have been injuries on the body. The body was consistent with being in place shortly after death. There needed to be a force of water to drive the body onto the ledge under the bridge.
Decomposition affected the autopsy completely. But this trial is not about determining a cause of death. Diatoms were in bloom and plentiful in the creek at the time of Allison’s death. Nothing was detected in Allison’s liver or bones. No access to the lungs due to decomposition."

Thank you for reporting in :happydance:
 

Amee

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Sarah Elks @sarahelks · 6h

Prosecution - You might think it's odd that boxes of children's toys are in the back of the Captiva that day. 'A subtle touch' #badenclay


David Murray @TheMurrayD

Allison was going to the conference the next day, was to drop off dresses to friend, more unlikely she would put toys in the car #badenclay
 

possumheart

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Newbie here but have been following since the beginning as I knew one of Alison's relatives and was with her on the day she was notified she was missing. Haven't commented to avoid saying something I shouldn't. While I've only been reading the threads here on what was said in court today, I can't help but think that Fuller missed a very damning piece of evidence. I can't recall what was said exactly, but if my recollection is correct, didn't one of the girls say that the toys were in the shed/carport? waiting to be picked up by someone/charity? Happy for someone to dismiss that as I don't have time to go and search the records.

My memory was the RSPCA was to pick them up.
 

BrissyLass

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I've wondered this too. But he blabbed on to someone about needing a bigger car to fit the blended family so he must have imagined it might happen. The email about rental properties from Toni seems to say they at least talked about this as the future.

True, but we also know how good the man is at lying and telling people exactly what they want hear ...
 

AAAA

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Agree totally!

It just defies me how GBC could be so stupid to not leave the phone with the "suicide victim"? Big mistake. Clearly shows that he panicked, got rid of the phone and the suicide idea came later.
 

Susan12

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Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 1m
Fuller says the marks occurred after his children went to sleep and before they got up.


David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 1m
They are on his face, they occurred after his children went to bed - Fuller


Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 1m
Fuller says after they last saw their mother and before they got up to find her missing.


Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 1m
Fuller says they can't say whose DNA was under her fingernails but there was a possible second contributer.

Yes yes! So glad he mentioned that last one! Fuller was on fire! :jail:
 

Happygolucky

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I agree that Fuller put on a consumate performance today and was very logical with his arguments. And thanks for the constact updates during the day. I am interested in the Judges summing up for the jury. My niggling doubt about reasonable doubt is subsiding but is still there. The main concern is how Alison was murdered. All the evidence seems to point she was smothered, probably in her bed. But I don't believe the air conditioners were on in April or that sound is hard to hear in a weatherboard house. Baby monitors can pick up when a baby is just starting to wake etc. but would GBC really risk the likely screams if he tried to smother Alison with all 3 daughters in the house? That is my dilemma.
I also find him a very, very unsavoury character (quite a <modsnip> in fact) but the history of the 19th has GBC an involved father. He went to the girls cross country and to a parent teacher interview and attended a BBQ with them that day at his parents. One of the daughters described seeing him in pyjamas and shoes and said he was going to do the ironing. It appears that she did not think it was unusual that he was going to do the ironing. And I don't think it was disputed he made the lunches before sending the girls to school on the 20th. It does not ring 100% true in the middle of all this he murdered their mother and that the murder was pre-meditated.

And I also believe GBC is his own worst enemy. If he had not lied and embellished his history, some of his evidence may have given a better impression.
 

louisepiglet

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That was my interpretation too.

Also, I didn't quite follow (and think I missed something) in relation to what TF said today about the clothes Allison was wearing, and it seems no further mention of the pyjamas. Would be interested to hear what others made of today's comments about the clothes.
I think the clothes Allison was found in were the clothes she was wearing that night watching television. The size of the tracksuit pants suggests they were worn for comfort, not for walking. Many people wear trackies to bed in winter.
 

BJsleuth

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So many things about the phone. How long does an I phone stay charged? If Allison was going to be at a conference she would have charged her phone. Surely if it was freshly charged and on quiet it would have been able to be picked up for longer. To make sure it was all good for the next day. There were so many things NOT DONE the night before in readiness for the conference. The dresses ready, Her phone ready, Her getting ready....nothing adds up to make his story probable.
I still don't know what it means that it was TRIANGULATED!! Can anyone explain that?
The police send a signal to the phone, they can get an approximation of where the phone is by the cell towers it travels through. It gives the three nearest cell towers. They can garner information such as distance from the time it takes to send a signal back to them. Hope that helps.
 

Maigret

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I agree that Fuller put on a consumate performance today and was very logical with his arguments. And thanks for the constact updates during the day. I am interested in the Judges summing up for the jury. My niggling doubt about reasonable doubt is subsiding but is still there. The main concern is how Alison was murdered. All the evidence seems to point she was smothered, probably in her bed. But I don't believe the air conditioners were on in April or that sound is hard to hear in a weatherboard house. Baby monitors can pick up when a baby is just starting to wake etc. but would GBC really risk the likely screams if he tried to smother Alison with all 3 daughters in the house? That is my dilemma.
I also find him a very, very unsavoury character (quite a <modsnip> in fact) but the history of the 19th has GBC an involved father. He went to the girls cross country and to a parent teacher interview and attended a BBQ with them that day at his parents. One of the daughters described seeing him in pyjamas and shoes and said he was going to do the ironing. It appears that she did not think it was unusual that he was going to do the ironing. And I don't think it was disputed he made the lunches before sending the girls to school on the 20th. It does not ring 100% true in the middle of all this he murdered their mother and that the murder was pre-meditated.

Children believe a father when he tells them something and don't always report it as unusual behaviour
Smothering someone who is already half asleep would not involve much noise
 

Timmy

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I agree that Fuller put on a consumate performance today and was very logical with his arguments. And thanks for the constact updates during the day. I am interested in the Judges summing up for the jury. My niggling doubt about reasonable doubt is subsiding but is still there. The main concern is how Alison was murdered. All the evidence seems to point she was smothered, probably in her bed. But I don't believe the air conditioners were on in April or that sound is hard to hear in a weatherboard house. Baby monitors can pick up when a baby is just starting to wake etc. but would GBC really risk the likely screams if he tried to smother Alison with all 3 daughters in the house? That is my dilemma.
I also find him a very, very unsavoury character (quite a <modsnip> in fact) but the history of the 19th has GBC an involved father. He went to the girls cross country and to a parent teacher interview and attended a BBQ with them that day at his parents. One of the daughters described seeing him in pyjamas and shoes and said he was going to do the ironing. It appears that she did not think it was unusual that he was going to do the ironing. And I don't think it was disputed he made the lunches before sending the girls to school on the 20th. It does not ring 100% true in the middle of all this he murdered their mother and that the murder was pre-meditated.

I don't know that I'd place too much importance on attending the cross country and parent teacher interview... Probably just an opportunity for him to 'network' eg. Hand out business cards etc.
 

BJsleuth

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Sorry to be a party pooper but I think it's r for referee - spraying the penalty line in the World Cup, and then they've added a cute bit to the end :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, it's just a strange coincidence! :)
 

AAAA

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I am so happy today. Everything that the defence said clicked with my belief about that night. The baby monitor was news to me, and the aircon. Was astounded that Bruce Overland emailed GG from the counselling rooms. That made my stomach turn a bit. I hope our sleuthers from the last few years feel the same as I do, if you can read this.
We are nearly there :countsheep:

I missed the bit of Bruce emailing from counselling? Years of speed reading didn't help today! What a lowlife?
 

Fly

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Yes I've always thought that he thought they would say ' no no we don't consider them missing till it's been 24 hours [emoji41]

I actually asked my brother about this (he is a QPS cop) - why the sudden escalation in the case - CIB pretty much straight away etc..? He said it is an indicator that the cops were suspicious straight away probably of either GBC's demeanour, or the scratches, or both.

M (and my bro's) OO
 

wewillgetyou

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Newbie here but have been following since the beginning as I knew one of Alison's relatives and was with her on the day she was notified she was missing. Haven't commented to avoid saying something I shouldn't. While I've only been reading the threads here on what was said in court today, I can't help but think that Fuller missed a very damning piece of evidence. I can't recall what was said exactly, but if my recollection is correct, didn't one of the girls say that the toys were in the shed/carport? waiting to be picked up by someone/charity? Happy for someone to dismiss that as I don't have time to go and search the records.

Welcome. Yes this has been discussed both here and in during the trial. :)
 
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