The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay - Trial Day 1 - 10th June, 2014-Week 1

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alioop said:
Yes but it would have taken more than the usual rinsing to remove chunks of skin to an extent they were unable to be detected by forensics.
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Unless, devils advocate, hate to say it but he was using one like my husband, a razor that you use for a while with new blades each week and then it gets manky and you buy them a new one. Start over? Maybe the defense will go with this? Hope not but unfortunately it wouldn't stand up in my house that there was no blood/ tissue. Although still doesn't address the scratches...
 
AAAA said:
Unless, devils advocate, hate to say it but he was using one like my husband, a razor that you use for a while with new blades each week and then it gets manky and you buy them a new one. Start over? Maybe the defense will go with this? Hope not but unfortunately it wouldn't stand up in my house that there was no blood/ tissue. Although still doesn't address the scratches...
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He actually handed the razor in, to QPS, all wrapped in plastic.
 
When it all comes down to it I think his history of being a very proficient lier will be his undoing.

How could you possibly believe anything the man says knowing his history of lying.

..... Oh What a Tangled Web We Weave When First We Practice to Deceive ........
 
Spectator said:
My first post but have read every word from the start of this case. I grew up in the western suburbs and have driven over the Kholo bridge a countless number of times and have some thoughts on how Allison came to be where she was found. From the photo's that area under the bridge would generally be dry ground as the river sits fairly low under there unless there has been big rainfall which was the case prior to the discovery from canoeist. Remembering that the Geo cache (think that is the correct terminology) was located under the bridge and people had documented that they had accessed the area on foot to get to it suggests that perhaps the rain had hindered the police efforts to get under the bridge but that may not have been the case when Allison was murdered. The Kholo bridge is not somewhere you would want to park your car regardless of the time of night/early morning. Once a shift worker I have passed over that bridge at all hours and while it is a low traffic area at those night/early morning times it is by no means a deserted road. Prior to the tragic death of Allison the speed limit on that section of road was 80km/hr and you certainly wouldn't want your car parked on the bridge in minimal light with the possibility of oncoming traffic doing that speed. It is a narrow two lane bridge and would be a risk to either park on it or stand on it to dispose of a body. It's my opinion that her body would have been dragged/lifted to the final resting spot under dryer condition than those under which it was found and the car parked off to the side of the road with the protection of thicker folage than what is currently there. I guess it's just a matter of waiting to hear more evidence there is a long road ahead but finally the process has started!!
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Welcome and I totally agree!
 
Allison was an astute woman and think she was trying to recover what was left of the business, she was the one meeting in the office that day and preparing for a conference the next day. Her husband was tending to the children. The lurking one would hate that scenario! JMHO.
------------------

Mr Fuller said Thursday April 19, 2012, began like any other for the Baden-Clay family.
The couple’s daughters attended their school’s cross-country carnival. Mr Baden-Clay and his sister Olivia Walton, who was visiting from Townsville, watched the girls compete.
Meanwhile, Mrs Baden-Clay had attended a meeting at the couple’s real estate agency at Taringa, where she was the general manager, before going to a hairdressing appointment at 4pm and then meeting her friend Kerri-Anne Walker for dinner.
Mr Baden-Clay bought sausages for dinner, which he ate at his parent’s house, with his daughters and sister.
He would later tell police he left his wife watching television in their living room when he went to bed about 10pm.


http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ive-coverage-day-1-week-1-20140609-39srt.html
 
alioop said:
I think your impression is correct. Perhaps family members were in court for the jury selection only in the morning.
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I heard from a very reliable source today that Mother BC stayed on in court this afternoon and Father BC caught the train home from the city because he and OW cannot sit in on any more proceedings owing to their witness obligations.
 
973164-38eb6cdc-f09e-11e3-8da8-726202433ee0.jpg


Emails tendered to the court purport to show exchanges between Gerard Baden-Clay and his mistress Toni McHugh.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...lison-was-killed/story-fnihsrf2-1226949972244
 
Radster said:
I heard from a very reliable source today that Mother BC stayed on in court this afternoon and Father BC caught the train home from the city because he and OW cannot sit in on any more proceedings owing to their witness obligations.
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But she will go home and tell them all about what happened in court, and they can also read everything online.
Question to Alioop: Are witnesses instructed not to discuss the case and how can this really be enforced?
 
kiwijayne said:
So I just remembered I have Friday off work and think I may go to court. Is there anything I need to know like time to go(early to get a seat?) or anything I can't take or do in court.
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If you want a good seat, pack that sleeping bag, a thermos and block the front doors. Save the best seats for Mrs & Mrs Dickie.
OMG they don't deserve this sadness, they remind me of the Morcombs.
Class through and through.
 
alioop said:
A circumstantial case is made up of lots of pieces of evidence that taken separately aren't enough to prove the charges, but taken together can be enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

So scratches by themselves don't prove murder but they may prove that he lied about getting them from a razor so why did he lie? And they happened at the same time that he notices his wife is missing? Then the evidence of a mistress who he has promised he will leave his wife for, desperate financial mess, and a catalyst of a 15 min vent session and him possibly telling Allison that Toni will be at the conference the next day! Her blood in the car, possible sightings that we are yet to hear about? All the pieces of evidence are together making the circumstantial case. I think it's a strong case.
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The best defence against a circumstantial case is a plausible alternative theory. There is none in this instance. That said, there is little difference between this case and the case of Lloyd Rayney in my state (WA) ... no physical evidence, everything circumstantial, no plausible alternative theory. Create enough doubt, blur the lines ... GBC may just get off.
 
Gerard had so much invested in making sure that people believed that this rigmarole with Ms McHugh was over.. previous, before, last year, over, moving on, get over it..

He tells Carmel, the counsellor , that its over, its in the past. people need to move on.

He tells Sue Heath and Flegg that it's in the past.. ( except when all hell breaks loose and he needs a covert phone)

He tells his staff.. he tells Alison this..probably NBC and EBC.. after all, they were in the office when Ms McHugh was fired for her sexual adventures with Gerard, and they were there in the office when Alison moved into the office.....probably Olivia knows it went on ... perhaps she believes its over, too.. or not..

When Constable Ash turns up at Gerards behest due to his bafflement re the whereabouts of his wife that morning, he tries out this story on him, too.. but he does a peculiar thing first. He wants his sister, Dad etc out of the room, as he says .. they don't know about anything re affairs etc. .. but this is improbable. Dad and Mum did know about Toni and Gerard as did all the staff, as Gerard made a big hoohaa about it in the office, called all the staff in, told them all about it, giving this as the reason as to why Toni was being fired..

But Gerard wants Constable Ash to believe that (a) its long in the past, and counselling is going fine, the marriage is being worked on successfully... and, (b) that no one in his family knows a darn thing about it.
Odd or what?

There is some reason why Gerard wants it publicly known that his marriage is fine. Everyone is to go along with this.. for why?? financial reasons is my guess.. He doesn't want future borrowing targets to get wind of this expensive element ( separation, divorce, child support, legal fees ) .. as a deterrent .. and.. he is laying the ground work for the eventual insurance claim.

Alternatively, he could be telling the truth to everyone except Toni..that is not an uncommon procedure .. men do fib to demanding extras... except that Alison is dead and Toni isn't...
 
marlywings said:
973164-38eb6cdc-f09e-11e3-8da8-726202433ee0.jpg


Emails tendered to the court purport to show exchanges between Gerard Baden-Clay and his mistress Toni McHugh.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...lison-was-killed/story-fnihsrf2-1226949972244
Click to expand...

It's quite amazing how confident Toni is... and she could only be this confident about knowing what Alison would agree to re the child custody arrangements from Gerard.. her only source re Alison... 'she can get her own place'.. 'the week you have the kids'.. etc.. she even is sure about what the Family court would decide..

'She wouldn't have to know where you are staying'.. this is nonsense.. the Family court would never allow Gerard to keep his address secret if he wished to have shared custody of his children.. this is Toni day dreaming. But why would it have to be a secret then? if he's left Alison, proceeding with divorce, what's the secrecy that Toni and Gerard are keen to prolong?
 
Spectator said:
My first post but have read every word from the start of this case. I grew up in the western suburbs and have driven over the Kholo bridge a countless number of times and have some thoughts on how Allison came to be where she was found. From the photo's that area under the bridge would generally be dry ground as the river sits fairly low under there unless there has been big rainfall which was the case prior to the discovery from canoeist. Remembering that the Geo cache (think that is the correct terminology) was located under the bridge and people had documented that they had accessed the area on foot to get to it suggests that perhaps the rain had hindered the police efforts to get under the bridge but that may not have been the case when Allison was murdered. The Kholo bridge is not somewhere you would want to park your car regardless of the time of night/early morning. Once a shift worker I have passed over that bridge at all hours and while it is a low traffic area at those night/early morning times it is by no means a deserted road. Prior to the tragic death of Allison the speed limit on that section of road was 80km/hr and you certainly wouldn't want your car parked on the bridge in minimal light with the possibility of oncoming traffic doing that speed. It is a narrow two lane bridge and would be a risk to either park on it or stand on it to dispose of a body. It's my opinion that her body would have been dragged/lifted to the final resting spot under dryer condition than those under which it was found and the car parked off to the side of the road with the protection of thicker folage than what is currently there. I guess it's just a matter of waiting to hear more evidence there is a long road ahead but finally the process has started!!
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Agree. (Scoutmaster) GBC would have known that to park on the side of the bridge, even for the shortest amount of time, would have attracted local interest at any time of the day or night. I feel he has made the effort that night, a panicked and desperate effort, to park to the side of the road and drag ABC's body through the scrub, down the embankment and under the pylon. You can't fall from a bridge and end up under a pylon. There is no other explanation for her being there than that she climbed under there voluntarily (and certainly this is a not uncommon suicide theme) - and the defence will attempt to allude to that. But it doesn't add up.
 
Trooper said:
It's quite amazing how confident Toni is... and she could only be this confident about knowing what Alison would agree to re the child custody arrangements from Gerard.. her only source re Alison... 'she can get her own place'.. 'the week you have the kids'.. etc.. she even is sure about what the Family court would decide..

'She wouldn't have to know where you are staying'.. this is nonsense.. the Family court would never allow Gerard to keep his address secret if he wished to have shared custody of his children.. this is Toni day dreaming. But why would it have to be a secret then? if he's left Alison, proceeding with divorce, what's the secrecy that Toni and Gerard are keen to prolong?
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Ikr, poor Allison, all this plotting behind her back. Is Toni so jealous she didn't want GBC to set eyes on Allison ever again? How bizarre is that?!:scared:
 
Radster said:
The best defence against a circumstantial case is a plausible alternative theory. There is none in this instance. That said, there is little difference between this case and the case of Lloyd Rayney in my state (WA) ... no physical evidence, everything circumstantial, no plausible alternative theory. Create enough doubt, blur the lines ... GBC may just get off.
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Re your last sentence: Not a snowflakes chance in hell! JMO.

True enough about "creating enough doubt" ..... well TRYING to create enough doubt.
True too about blurring the lines (sleepover night amongst many)

But too many additives supplied for a fair dinkum swallow of required medicine.
Empty Zoloft packets strewn in highly visible places. Along with matching talks about her "Depression."
(Aside: If I was married to that (no derogatory words or name calling), I would need some help with Anxiety issues too)

She went for a walk, might have been late night walk, might have been early morning walk.

He was watching the footy, or, she was watching the footy.

Screaming and sounds of arguments heard at the same residence at the same time.
BTW Today was the first I have heard of multiple witnesses to those screams.

Those blurry lines are fading. The real truth is emerging from the shadows.
 
PrimeSuspect said:
Ikr, poor Allison, all this plotting behind her back. Is Toni so jealous she didn't want GBC to set eyes on Allison ever again? How bizarre is that?!:scared:
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Oh yeah! Obviously wanted to have what Allison had and all the trimmings.
Remember the near miss at the gym? How dare Allison exist!
I'm feeling there was a relentless obsession.

Every married woman's nightmare.
 
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