The Dogs

[No it's not]

That poor old dog Lucy was basically frisked. Made for interesting reading. Wait until we have forensics to ponder in this case- the site will explode with opinions.
Just another thought on the alarm code as creepingskills has me pondering this- I wonder if the code is predetermined to work for a given set of times. For example- whoever sets it predicts it will verify the code #20 attempts. Just an idea.


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Good thoughts! Also, how do you take, what was said in batch#16 B#3018? Where were the dogs?? That was one of the question, SMS did not want to reply to:

 

[observation]

Good thoughts! Also, how do you take, what was said in batch#16 B#3018? Where were the dogs?? That was one of the question, SMS did not want to reply to:

Well, my first thought is that CWW and JR must have locked them inside that room to prevent them from barking and reacting to TS arriving home. Also, they were isolated from the crime scene to attempt to conceal forensic evidence from spreading about the house. Likely why Lucy was frisked. But, if they pressed on the door that was locked- and had to spread the door open to eventually open a top latch- it must have been locked from the inside.
BTW- love the added underlining. Made the contents jump out at me.


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[dmac55]

Regarding the dog(s) did anyone else get the freaks when it said "on or inside" the dog. There are so many places my mind goes with such a broad statement like that. What sort of evidence?! Poor dog. I hope she didn't witness the brutal murder of TS. Additionally, I agree with the question of the COD coming from 2 men who never (to our knowledge) knew TS. Tragic. Just tragic.

IMO CWW didn't think the case would make national news or he's too stupid to think LE wouldn't check any and all associates of TS & MS. I know the break was a lucky one with the tip but so much would have lead back to him either way. He's definitely not the smartest hitman I have seen.

my first thought was internal meant saliva
that being said, i have no idea, and agree it is intriguing
i was probably not freaked out as much because i was a nurse, and people in the medical field take samples of everything you can imagine from inside and outside people's bodies regularly
jmo

things it can be from the sources below:
pet hairs (on anything related to perpetrator including being transferred to perpetrator's vehicle/home, etc.)
pet saliva (bite marks)
pet feces (on shoes)
pet urine (urinating on perpetrator, or anything related to perpetrator (vehicles, clothes, etc)
pet orifices (perpetrator performing sex with animal)
pet blood (on perpetrator or items related to perpetrator from perpetrator harming animal)

Evidence Technology Magazine - Solving Human Crimes with Animal DNA
http://www.evidencemagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1620

Pet CSI: How Dog And Cat DNA Nabs Bad Guys | WBUR's The Wild Life
http://thewildlife.wbur.org/2015/01/13/pet-csi-how-dog-and-cat-dna-nabs-bad-guys/

ETA: pet hairs are not internal - apparently it's my bedtime

 

[observation]

I stated realizing it's past my bedtime when I started thinking about Lucy's microchip. I mean why mention she has one? Night one and all for now.


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[Frigga]

Yeah, I didn't even want to ponder what that could mean about in or on the dog.

Nite nite!

 

[Sulamith]

Regarding the dog(s) did anyone else get the freaks when it said "on or inside" the dog. There are so many places my mind goes with such a broad statement like that. What sort of evidence?! Poor dog. I hope she didn't witness the brutal murder of TS. Additionally, I agree with the question of the COD coming from 2 men who never (to our knowledge) knew TS. Tragic. Just tragic.

IMO CWW didn't think the case would make national news or he's too stupid to think LE wouldn't check any and all associates of TS & MS. I know the break was a lucky one with the tip but so much would have lead back to him either way. He's definitely not the smartest hitman I have seen.

BBM I could not really imagine what that statement meant but then a gruesome (for the doggie) thought popped into my mind that she bit off one of the killer's fingers and swallowed it.

I can't believe I thought that!

 

[Eileen730]

Yeah, I didn't even want to ponder what that could mean about in or on the dog.

Nite nite!

Microchips are injected into the dog.
I don't know what information can be gained from it other than owners information.

 

[susnoat]

Microchips are injected into the dog.
I don't know what information can be gained from it other than owners information.

Yall are reading way too much into the doggie statements. The microchip clearly identifies the dog much like a fingerprint. It will come out that they found doggie hairs and dna on the perps. You cannot go into a home that has dogs and not get doggie dna on you. They seem to have spent significant time in that home. What WILL matter, is when they announce they have found THAT specific dog dna with THAT microchip in the Elantra. Just another check, and mate.

 

[Dmacky]

I stated realizing it's past my bedtime when I started thinking about Lucy's microchip. I mean why mention she has one? Night one and all for now.


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Didn't one of TS dogs take off out the yard one day? I think I remember that...
It seems like that is when it was reported that she was microchipped.
I would give anything to have those two sweet dogs...TS absolutely loved them. Remember from the funeral, there was a picture of TS and a picture of Lucy beside her? :cry:

 

[Bobbywoo]

Yall are reading way too much into the doggie statements. The microchip clearly identifies the dog much like a fingerprint. It will come out that they found doggie hairs and dna on the perps. You cannot go into a home that has dogs and not get doggie dna on you. They seem to have spent significant time in that home. What WILL matter, is when they announce they have found THAT specific dog dna with THAT microchip in the Elantra. Just another check, and mate.

Yup! This

 

[No it's not]

Didn't one of TS dogs take off out the yard one day? I think I remember that...
It seems like that is when it was reported that she was microchipped.
I would give anything to have those two sweet dogs...TS absolutely loved them. Remember from the funeral, there was a picture of TS and a picture of Lucy beside her? :cry:

Exactly! One of the dogs ran out!! Right here:

Batch1 B#1

So, a dog ran out and yet, both dogs were discovered inside that double door enclosure, locked by a lash from inside! Are we looking at a third dog?? Confusing!

 

[Dmacky]

Exactly! One of the dogs ran out!! Right here:

Batch1 B#1

So, a dog ran out and yet, both dogs were discovered inside that double door enclosure, locked by a lash from inside! Are we looking at a third dog?? Confusing!

That one too, but the one I was referring to was back in September:
On Wednesday afternoon, one of the Sievers’ dogs could be seen through an open gate running around the backyard. Later in the day, neighbors said the dog ran out of the yard toward East Terry Street before returning home.
link here
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/crim...cene-after-alarm-ep-1276305925-338707391.html

 

[Satchie]

Exactly! One of the dogs ran out!!

So, a dog ran out and yet, both dogs were discovered inside that double door enclosure, locked by a lash from inside! Are we looking at a third dog?? Confusing!

Could the dog that ran loose have been put back into the yard by the Dr, before LE searched the scene. Could the dogs have had access to the garage through the jimmied side door that opened onto the yard?

 

[No it's not]

Exactly! One of the dogs ran out!! Right here:

Batch1 B#1


So, a dog ran out and yet, both dogs were discovered inside that double door enclosure, locked by a lash from inside! Are we looking at a third dog?? Confusing!

Batch# 18 B# 3066

Here, dogs ran outside, when Dr opened the garage door:

I am not sleuthing the Dr in any way, I just don't understand, how the dogs went from outside back into the house, past the victim behind a double door locked from the inside. The witness stated he checked on the victim, shook her (..) and then left back outside the same way he came in and called LE. Then LE arrives and they find the victim and then they discover the dogs. This is puzzling. I am sure, there is an explanation. Have not found one yet.

-Nin

 

[Satchie]

Batch# 18 B# 3066

Here, dogs ran outside, when Dr opened the garage door:

I am not sleuthing the Dr in any way, I just don't understand, how the dogs went from outside back into the house, past the victim behind a double door locked from the inside. The witness stated he checked on the victim, shook her (..) and then left back outside the same way he came in and called LE. Then LE arrives and they find the victim and then they discover the dogs. This is puzzling. I am sure, there is an explanation. Have not found one yet.

-Nin

Here's what I think - they didn't want to clutter up the narrative about the layout and how they found the house, and where the two dogs were supposed to be kept, with the story that one/both of the dogs had gotten out.

So they say he "saw that there were two dogs in the house", not that he "saw the two dogs at that moment."

I think the dog either got locked in the garage during the crime, or was able to enter through the side door that had been fake jimmied.

The report states the laundry door was closed but not locked when the Dr. entered.

It's funny the investigative report also draws attention to a dog bowl in the kitchen. But it seems the dogs were being kept in a different part of the house while the family was away.

I can imagine that MS made careful arrangements to ensure the dogs were in a different part of the house when the perps entered and where TS was left, he wouldn't want them in the way.

But it seems something happened and the dog got involved!

 

[KateB]

If the door to the lanai was propped open and the doggie door access to the lanai was in the same room that was locked, (was it?) couldn't they have simply ran out and around and back in?

Here's this helpful NIN house floor plan post again:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ene-and-Investigation&p=12035979#post12035979

I was trying to find out, whether there is any space inside the house, where the dogs could have been confined to in order not to hear any barking by any neighbors - if the dogs did indeed bark.

For that I needed the floor plan. After running the permit Nr. and finally locating the original builder of the house ( they have changed their company name since then).
They have either slightly adjusted the initial floor plan, or the Sievers had them customize the plan according to their own expectations.

Plan is very workable, so were would you keep the dogs to avoid them being heard?

Here are the pics, links and some technical data:

Builder sf ---------------------- Sievers sf

2802 under air -------------------- 2885 under air
721 garage ------------------------695 garage
119 finished open porch ----------119 finished open porch
517 lanai --------------------------470 lanai

The Sievers house has more sf under air, which resulted from reducing the garage space slightly, reducing the lanai space to the back ( due to larger bath/room in the back), adding frontal space to the master bathroom. The space as shown in the Lee county permit plan is still proportional to the newer builder's plan. What we do not know is if any doors had been adjusted.

Builder link:
http://www.kayelifestylehomes.com/2015-lifestyle-homes/emerald-bay/

Lee County Permitting:
http://permits.leegov.com/tm_bin/tmw_cmd.pl?tmw_cmd=StatusViewCase&shl_caseno=RES2005-19905

Lee County Property Appraiser:
http://www.leepa.org/Display/DisplayParcel.aspx?AuthDetails=True&FolioID=10294168&LocationDetails=True&PhotoIndex=3&PermitDetails=True&SalesDetails=True&RenumberDetails=True#NumberingDetails


-Nin

 

[Cymbaline]

If the door to the lanai was propped open and the doggie door access to the lanai was in the same room that was locked, (was it?) couldn't they have simply ran out and around and back in.

I see more than one door to the lanai. Which door was propped open?

 

[KateB]

I see more than one door to the lanai. Which door was propped open?

From the doc clip "Further inside the residence we found a set of double doors just off of the entrance that was locked."

If the floor plan of the builder's current model is the same as theirs, I'd guess the double doors off the kitchen to the LR/Dining room were the locked double doors. It's just across from the main entry foyer if they meant that entrance, too. Then again, there may not be doors there.

Either door on the lanai could have been propped open, IMO. I'm thinking the screen door to the grass and not the sliders to the house.

 

[irishchook]

If the door to the lanai was propped open and the doggie door access to the lanai was in the same room that was locked, (was it?) couldn't they have simply ran out and around and back in?

Here's this helpful NIN house floor plan post again:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ene-and-Investigation&p=12035979#post12035979

There's two doors to the lanai. Most people, down here, install their doggie door into the door that directly leads outside. Which, in this case, is the lanai door. The lanai door is typically flimsy, but can be locked and is screened in and somewhat exposed to the elements.
The lanai would then lead to a much more secure door (alarm system, etc.) into the main house, which is usually a thick storm-proof glass door.
It's somewhat unusual to install a doggie door into the glass storm door.
If they were locked in the lanai and were barking, then yes, the neighbors would definitely have heard them.

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[Satchie]

There's two doors to the lanai. Most people, down here, install their doggie door into the door that directly leads outside. Which, in this case, is the lanai door. The lanai door is typically flimsy, but can be locked and is screened in and somewhat exposed to the elements.
The lanai would then lead to a much more secure door (alarm system, etc.) into the main house, which is usually a thick storm-proof glass door.
It's somewhat unusual to install a doggie door into the glass storm door.
If they were locked in the lanai and were barking, then yes, the neighbors would definitely have heard them.

Very helpful - so the 'lanai door' probably leads from the pool area into the yard?

So anyone getting over a fence into the yard and attempting to break into the house by that side door that was fake-jimmied, would have been met by the dogs.

Or even, someone coming in by the garage car door, and then opening the side door to fake-jimmy it, would have been met by the dogs.

They have a dog door that allows them to go out into the lanai, and the lanai door was propped open to allow them to go out on the lawn

The dog door was functioning, but the detective closed it off to keep them outside.