The headblow first and why

[Solace]

there is no need to get snippy. If you have proof that my information is incorrect, by all means post it.

I still say your post was very very interesting.

 

[Paradox]

there is no need to get snippy. If you have proof that my information is incorrect, by all means post it.

Oh, I see, you can post: the head blow came first absolutely and why absolutely, and that is above and beyond refutability.

Your argument couldn't stand up in court or a med lab.

 

[Paradox]

Maybe not, but at least two pathologists, Werner Spitz and Tom Henry, agreed that it did.

So what? Others didn't. The point is: it can't be said either way for certain.

Word to Bev.

 

[Bev]

I doubt that my theory would be considered "evidence" in a court. If you took the title of my post as some sort of final word on the subject, I'm sorry - I was only offering my theory as to why the headblow came first. It's what I've read over the years and what I've found after researching the subject. I assumed that anyone posting here, could google the subject and find plenty of information about the subject to prove or disprove my statements. If you feel like researching the subject and find that I'm wrong, please post it. Nothing is ever "final" in this case, and like most people who post here, it's just interesting to discuss for amateur sleuths.

 

[Bev]

Britt, I should have made that clearer in the post - the headblow was simultaneous to the first choking - I agree with you that they happened at the same time.

Solace, thanks for the compliments, they mean a lot!

 

[Rupert]

"I had forgotten this, and just reread the autopsy report - there was no damage to the tongue, no damage to the frenulum (that bit of tissue that connects the tongue to the bottom of the mouth) the hyoid bone was not damaged, no strap muscles damaged and no internal damage to the larynx, etc. In aphixiation and strangulation cases where the victim is conscious, there is damage to the tongue - the victim bites it, cuts it along the edge of the teeth as it presses down on them and very often the frenulum is cut or torn, cheeks are bitten. The hyoid bone is broken because it is a very delicate bone and as people struggle, arch their necks and pressure is put upon it, it fractures or breaks. There is always damage to other parts of the neck, such as bruising, tearing of muscles, etc. In this case, there was no damage to any of these body parts - no bruising, nothing. There was bruising, there were abrasions, but they were on the outside, not the inside of throat or mouth. Since there were no signs of a struggle then she was probably unconscious."

Bev, good "catch". Maybe one of the best I have seen on this case. Sounds like you know what you are talking about. Your comments should really be taken up by the detective with a review of the autopsy by the medical pros. It might help them figure out what came first. If she was unconcious while being garroted, she wasn't just asleep. She would have had to have been knocked out really cold as in "head bash".

Albeit, I wonder if they are really still serious about finding the killer.

 

[Bev]

I wonder if the da's office ever wanted to prosecute this case. From the very beginning they were so cozy with the defense team, that I didn't think they were serious about taking it to trial.

 

[BBB167893]

I wonder if the da's office ever wanted to prosecute this case. From the very beginning they were so cozy with the defense team, that I didn't think they were serious about taking it to trial.

I'm with you, Bev. Just goes to show you what a millionaire with a trophy wife and a law firm that owns half the state can do.

(Forget about taking "Under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance. That "Justice for All" part's the one that bothers me!)

"So what? Others didn't. The point is: it can't be said either way for certain."

That's fine, Paradox. It's just that some people claim there was NO doubt she was hit last.

Bev's not the only one to point out the discrepancy between the crime photos and the actual underlying injuries.

 

[Bev]

and I do mean speculation, but the relationship with Bynum and Hofsteder(sp? I'm not even sure if that's the right one) was always puzzling to me. These two were discussing this case from the 26th on - it was too strange.

 

[sissi]

Her mouth was open under the tape, I have no idea why the killer put the tape over her mouth. I would guess it wasn't that strong of tape and she could open her mouth, yet not enough to remove it. Anyone have any to try?

A parent would have closed her mouth first, murderous parents like their children to look "asleep".

 

[BBB167893]

"Her mouth was open under the tape, I have no idea why the killer put the tape over her mouth. I would guess it wasn't that strong of tape and she could open her mouth, yet not enough to remove it. Anyone have any to try?"

I never heard that. There was a perfect impression of her lips. No tongue impression, nothing to indicate she'd fought at all.

"A parent would have closed her mouth first, murderous parents like their children to look 'asleep'."

Like Darlie Routier? Sure. Why not just put up a sign that said "Child murdered by parents?"

 

[Bev]

why then would the tip of her tongue be dried out?

 

[aussiesheila]

why then would the tip of her tongue be dried out?

Hi Bev, I can give you a reason, but it wouldn't fit in with your whole scenario. So would you consider it if I did? And I liked your analysis of the lack of damage to the neck etc although I have a very different view as to why this occurred in this particular case of strangulation.

 

[Bev]

as long as it fit with the evidence.

 

[BBB167893]

"Hi Bev, I can give you a reason, but it wouldn't fit in with your whole scenario. So would you consider it if I did? And I liked your analysis of the lack of damage to the neck etc although I have a very different view as to why this occurred in this particular case of strangulation."

Give!

 

[aussiesheila]

"Hi Bev, I can give you a reason, but it wouldn't fit in with your whole scenario. So would you consider it if I did? And I liked your analysis of the lack of damage to the neck etc although I have a very different view as to why this occurred in this particular case of strangulation."

Give!

I think just before she was strangled with the garotte and bashed over the head, JonBenet had been subjected to about an hour or maybe less, of the garotte being tightened and released repeatedly while a group of pedophiles were sexually abusing her. I think her mouth would have been open the whole time resulting in her tongue drying out. I think the pre-used piece of duct tape they just found lying around in the basement and when they were arranging the staged kidnapping, someone noticed it and got the bright idea to put it over JonBenet's mouth to make it look as though the kidnapper had put a gag on her to keep her quiet.

I think the reason there was a lack of damage to the hyoid bone was because the strangulation was slow and gradual with no sudden jerking. Also I think JonBenet had been subdued by drugs and wouldn't have been struggling, especially if a stungun had been used to 'punish' her if she did.

 

[BBB167893]

Hmm...

The used piece I can agree with. The question is, if this had happened before, the ones doing it would have been smart enough to put a scarf or similar object on her neck so she wouldn't get marks. They didn't this time. Were they planning to kill her?

 

[aussiesheila]

Hmm...

The used piece I can agree with. The question is, if this had happened before, the ones doing it would have been smart enough to put a scarf or similar object on her neck so she wouldn't get marks. They didn't this time. Were they planning to kill her?

I think it possible when, if a garotte is used as a breath control device on a child, for it not to leave marks on the child's neck. I don't think the pedophiles who I think murdered her, did so intentionally, I think they were all set up for just another abuse session.

I think this time was a little different though, in that this time they allowed a new person to join in, namely GM. I think that GM proved to be a really violent psychopath, and I think it was he who shoved somthing sharp up JonBenet's vagina and that ws what caused her to scream that terrible scream. It was at this point I think, that whoever was manipulating the garotte pulled it way too tight in an effort to silence her and GM picked up a metal baseball bat and swung it at her head.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Just spitballing (thanks Super Dave) on aussiesheila's theory that JonBenet had been strangled previously but not fatally, and if there would be any outward sign of it.

This link talks of finding strangulation evidence when there is little sign of it visibly.

http://www.polaroid.com/global/printer_friendly.jsp?PRODUCT<>prd_id=845524441760370


And this one talks of non-lethal stragulation.

http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/domesticviolence/strangulation.htm

Signs (objective observation) & Symptoms (subjective descriptions) of Strangulation

Voice changes: in at least 50% of cases, ranges from hoarseness (raspy) to total loss of voice

Swallowing changes

Breathing changes (hyperventilation, gasping, panting) and coughing

Pain to neck/throat and/or lumps in neck

Mental status change (disoriented, combative, restlessness, “spaced-out”, memory loss, severe stress)

Scratch, scrape, pattern injuries or claw marks to neck and/or chest and chin

Redness, impression marks, or abrasions to neck

Spasm: loss of bodily function (vomiting, urination, defecation) and/or uncontrollable shaking

Ears ringing

Head “rush”

Petechaie (eyes (around, under, whites), ears, anywhere on face or neck, shoulders, upper chest) always above the area of constriction)

 

[BBB167893]

"I think it possible when, if a garotte is used as a breath control device on a child, for it not to leave marks on the child's neck. I don't think the pedophiles who I think murdered her, did so intentionally, I think they were all set up for just another abuse session."

Didn't say it wasn't possible. I just said, "why take a chance?"

"they allowed a new person to join in, namely GM"

GM?

"Just spitballing (thanks Super Dave)"

Oh, boy, now I've really started something!