The headblow first and why
- Thread starter Bev
- Start date
SuperDave said:
SuperDave,
All this speculation about EA activity is just that, the garrote would never have functioned as a breath control device. Her hair was embedded into the knotting on the paintbrush handle, her cross and chain necklace were tangled underneath the ligature, and the knots being fixed would prevent any adjustment.
Also there is no forensic evidence to indicate anyone other than the resident Ramsey's were in the house that night.
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The tape on the mouth might have been put on quite late in the staging process.
Maybe JB was lying around(with an open mouth) for quite some time before the tape was put on her, this could explain the dried tongue tip.
The tape helped closing her mouth.
Maybe JB was lying around(with an open mouth) for quite some time before the tape was put on her, this could explain the dried tongue tip.
The tape helped closing her mouth.
Exactly. A fixed know would exclude both garroting and EA activity.UKGuy said:
The first time I heard about (auto)erotic asphyxiation was when the Australian Musician Michael Hutchence (sp?) accidentally hung himself.
No one can 'force' EA on someone else, for EA is done with the willing consent of the person who is asphyxiated, because this person wants to derive sexual pleasure from it. So anyone who thinks the ligature around JB's neck was an EA device must also believe that this six-year-old child was a willling participant in this kind of stuff. Totally absurd imo.
The forensic evidence makes a scenario likely where (an already dead/near dead) JB was lying face-down on the floor when the perp tied the knot at the back of her neck, and then entangled her hair into the wrappings on the paintbrush handle as he was looping the remaining long end of the cord around it.
Exactly. A fixed knot would exclude both garroting and EA activity.
Ignoring the facts already pointed out by UKGuy, which excludes garroting there are further strange things about it.
I might be wrong but a real garrote isn't it just a cord with two handles. You wrap the cord around the neck and tightens it by pulling the handles. When you are done you leave with the garrote. I am thinking Luca Brasi in 'the godfather'.
I can't understand how professionals(LE) can say that this looks like a professional garrote. Just think of the extra trouble tying a knot around the neck, not something you do on a living victim. Not to mention having to leave evidence at the scene.
The forensic evidence makes a scenario likely where (an already dead/near dead) JB was lying face-down on the floor when the perp tied the knot at the back of her neck, and then entangled her hair into the wrappings on the paintbrush handle as he was looping the remaining long end of the cord around it.
Yes, this sound very plausible to me.
Ignoring the facts already pointed out by UKGuy, which excludes garroting there are further strange things about it.
I might be wrong but a real garrote isn't it just a cord with two handles. You wrap the cord around the neck and tightens it by pulling the handles. When you are done you leave with the garrote. I am thinking Luca Brasi in 'the godfather'.
I can't understand how professionals(LE) can say that this looks like a professional garrote. Just think of the extra trouble tying a knot around the neck, not something you do on a living victim. Not to mention having to leave evidence at the scene.
The forensic evidence makes a scenario likely where (an already dead/near dead) JB was lying face-down on the floor when the perp tied the knot at the back of her neck, and then entangled her hair into the wrappings on the paintbrush handle as he was looping the remaining long end of the cord around it.
Yes, this sound very plausible to me.
"I might be wrong but a real garrote isn't it just a cord with two handles. You wrap the cord around the neck and tightens it by pulling the handles. When you are done you leave with the garrote. I am thinking Luca Brasi in 'the godfather'."
That's it, all right.
"I can't understand how professionals(LE) can say that this looks like a professional garrote. Just think of the extra trouble tying a knot around the neck, not something you do on a living victim. Not to mention having to leave evidence at the scene."
Well, it's only two "professionals," and both of them have gone against all of their own training to clear the Rs.
"I guess so, there are millions who continue to believe so or some variant thereof."
Not as many as us, though!
That's it, all right.
"I can't understand how professionals(LE) can say that this looks like a professional garrote. Just think of the extra trouble tying a knot around the neck, not something you do on a living victim. Not to mention having to leave evidence at the scene."
Well, it's only two "professionals," and both of them have gone against all of their own training to clear the Rs.
"I guess so, there are millions who continue to believe so or some variant thereof."
Not as many as us, though!
Doesn't a person who dies by strangulation have their tongue bloated or sticking out and the hyoid bone broken?
None of that occured. My belief is that the cord was put on while she was unconcious from the head blow. There is no way JonBenet would sit still while the cord is being tightened and then loosened. Her hair and necklace tangled in with the cord suggests to me a little girl who was already dying.
None of that occured. My belief is that the cord was put on while she was unconcious from the head blow. There is no way JonBenet would sit still while the cord is being tightened and then loosened. Her hair and necklace tangled in with the cord suggests to me a little girl who was already dying.
SuperDave said:
Who was the first investigator to come up with the 'professional garrote' stuff? Lou Smit? (wouldn't surprise me if it was him).
Delmar England said, judging from the nonsense Smit spouted about the alleged garrote, it was clear to him that Smit didn't know a thing about real garrotes.
And who was the other professional who firmly believed that this was a garrote?
"Doesn't a person who dies by strangulation have their tongue bloated or sticking out and the hyoid bone broken?"
Generally yes.
"None of that occured. My belief is that the cord was put on while she was unconcious from the head blow. There is no way JonBenet would sit still while the cord is being tightened and then loosened. Her hair and necklace tangled in with the cord suggests to me a little girl who was already dying."
I agree 100%. No one is stupid enough to try and tie a noose on someone who is still alive and fighting.
"Who was the first investigator to come up with the 'professional garrote' stuff? Lou Smit? (wouldn't surprise me if it was him)."
Yeah, it was him, all right.
"Delmar England said, judging from the nonsense Smit spouted about the alleged garrote, it was clear to him that Smit didn't know a thing about real garrotes."
But obviously the BPD called someone who did. That person or persons said that this was a prop with very simple knots.
"And who was the other professional who firmly believed that this was a garrote?"
The name escapes me right now.
Generally yes.
"None of that occured. My belief is that the cord was put on while she was unconcious from the head blow. There is no way JonBenet would sit still while the cord is being tightened and then loosened. Her hair and necklace tangled in with the cord suggests to me a little girl who was already dying."
I agree 100%. No one is stupid enough to try and tie a noose on someone who is still alive and fighting.
"Who was the first investigator to come up with the 'professional garrote' stuff? Lou Smit? (wouldn't surprise me if it was him)."
Yeah, it was him, all right.
"Delmar England said, judging from the nonsense Smit spouted about the alleged garrote, it was clear to him that Smit didn't know a thing about real garrotes."
But obviously the BPD called someone who did. That person or persons said that this was a prop with very simple knots.
"And who was the other professional who firmly believed that this was a garrote?"
The name escapes me right now.