The Importance of the Pineapple

[Jayelles]

Given that the BPD were so desperate to incriminate the Ramseys I wouldn't be surprised if they 'nudged' marginal fingerprint results into the 'positive match' direction.

Why would they do that? Why not frame someone whose fingerprints couldn't be easily explained away?

Patsy and Burke's fingerprints on the bowl are hardly surprising considering they both lived in the house. The thing that MAKES their fingerprints potentially significant is the fact that pineapple was found in JonBenet's digestive tract. However - remember this pineapple is the "bugaboo" and that the Ramseys do not appear to have known that she ate it.

The pineapple is a "bugaboo" because it doesn't fit with testimonies. Digestion times mean that JonBenet either ate it before going to the White house and died soon after leaving the Whites ... or that she ate the pineapple when she came back from the White's and was not "zonked" as described by her parents.

 

[aussiesheila]

<<Patsy got the bowl out of the cupboard and set it on the table for the 'night visitor' to empty the pineapple into. As long as the 'night visitor' wore gloves or made sure he didn't touch the bowl at all, his fingerprints would not have been left on it>>

Why would the 'night visitor' have been worried about leaving prints on the bowl?
In your theory, don't you think that JonBenét's death was unplanned?
That JonBenét's death happened by accident by a new member of the 'ring'?
Didn't you say she got fed the pineapple before being taken downstairs for the 'festivities'?
I don't get it

You have a point there Narla, in my scenario he wouldn't have been worried because this was going to be just another of the 'regular' nights where, if everything had gone to plan, there would have been no killing and no investigation. But still, I believe pedophiles tend to be careful about leaving evidence behind in the (unlikely) event that there is an investigation into sexual abuse.

Yes Narla, I do think JonBenet's death was unplanned, but I think the sexual abuse that occurred that night before that was very much planned.

And yes I think the death was unintentional. I think it was in the moment immediately after she screamed that she was killed. I originally thought that she screamed when she was stungunned, but I now think it was when someone, probably the (exceptionally violent) newcomer, assaulted her with the paintbrush handle. Once she let out that terrible scream I think they panicked, fearing they would be discovered, and they tried to silence her. I think the one who was operating the breath control ligature pulled the noose too tight and accidentally strangled her and the newcomer (perhaps not in panic but in rage) grabbed a baseball bat up off the floor and bashed her over the head with it, crushing her skull.

I think she was fed the pineapple in the kitchen, possibly in Patsy's presence. I think the pineapple was laced with some drug that rendered her more amenable to the sexual abuse that was to follow later on in the basement.

You say you don't get it Narla and I have tried to explain what I think but if you still don't get what I mean I am perfectly happy to answer more questions that you might have.

 

[narlacat]

I get it, thanks.
I think you make stuff up as you go along.

 

[aussiesheila]

Why would they do that? Why not frame someone whose fingerprints couldn't be easily explained away?

Sorry Jayelles, I didn't mean that the BPD were trying to frame the Ramseys with the fingerprint evidence. I meant more that maybe the fingerprint evidence was not all that conclusive in that it might have been not absolutely definitely positively Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints but similar enough to theirs that it could possibly have been theirs. I am saying that given that the BPD had already decided the Ramseys were guilty they then might have decided that similar was good enough to call it a definite match.

Patsy and Burke's fingerprints on the bowl are hardly surprising considering they both lived in the house. The thing that MAKES their fingerprints potentially significant is the fact that pineapple was found in JonBenet's digestive tract. However - remember this pineapple is the "bugaboo" and that the Ramseys do not appear to have known that she ate it.

The pineapple is a "bugaboo" because it doesn't fit with testimonies. Digestion times mean that JonBenet either ate it before going to the White house and died soon after leaving the Whites ... or that she ate the pineapple when she came back from the White's and was not "zonked" as described by her parents.

Well there is a third possibility, and that is that JonBenet ate the pineapple when she came back from the White's TWO HOURS AFTER she was put to bed "zonked" as described by her parents at 9.30pm. I believe she was woken up either by Patsy or another relative or a close friend at around 11.30pm and it was then that she ate the pineapple.

I believe John's testimony to be truthful because he knew nothing about the 'night visitors', he being sound asleep from 10pm to 5:20am.

Patsy's testimony IMO was a lie. I think she knew these 'night visitors' were coming, she probably let them in and got JonBenet up out of bed again and she was quite probably present when they fed her the (drug-laced, IMO) pineappple.

 

[aussiesheila]

I get it, thanks.
I think you make stuff up as you go along.

Oh, come on Narla, that's not fair. As I learn more I modify my theory to fit. What's wrong with that?

Please criticise my theory all you like if you have something of substance to say. What do you mean accusing me of making up stuff as I go along? Do you mean I make up 'facts' to suit my theory? I don't understand. What do you mean?

 

[Eagle1]

Maybe she's just kidding, AussieShiela.

 

[narlacat]

<<Well there is a third possibility, and that is that JonBenet ate the pineapple when she came back from the White's SEVERAL HOURS AFTER she was put to bed "zonked" as described by her parents at 9.30pm. I believe she was woken up either by Patsy or another relative or a close friend at around 11.30pm and it was then that she ate the pineapple>>

Aussie
In one breath you say 'SEVERAL HOURS AFTER' then you say 'put to bed "zonked" as described by her parents at 9.30pm' 'woken up at around 11.30pm'.
That is two hours, not several.
Did I miss something?:crazy:

 

[narlacat]

<<Do you mean I make up 'facts' to suit my theory?>>

I think you make up 'stuff' to suit your theory, yes.

 

[aussiesheila]

<<Well there is a third possibility, and that is that JonBenet ate the pineapple when she came back from the White's SEVERAL HOURS AFTER she was put to bed "zonked" as described by her parents at 9.30pm. I believe she was woken up either by Patsy or another relative or a close friend at around 11.30pm and it was then that she ate the pineapple>>

Aussie
In one breath you say 'SEVERAL HOURS AFTER' then you say 'put to bed "zonked" as described by her parents at 9.30pm' 'woken up at around 11.30pm'.
That is two hours, not several.
Did I miss something?:crazy:

OK Narla, I've edited out the 'several'

 

[narlacat]

You even highlighted it.
And you expect people to take you seriously.

 

[aussiesheila]

<<Do you mean I make up 'facts' to suit my theory?>>

I think you make up 'stuff' to suit your theory, yes.

Please Narla, I don't think I have. Can you point out where you think I have? Thanks.

 

[aussiesheila]

Maybe she's just kidding, AussieShiela.

You're too kind Eagle1.

 

[Sepka]

Regarding the controversy on how fast pineapple would be passed into the intestines, I found some references. Sadly, they're related to the transit times for food through the intestines in children and not for food to leave the stomach, but I think they might be generally applicable.


Measurement of gastrointestinal pH and regional transit times in normal children. The authors conclude that "intestinal transit times found in the present study are almost identical to values found in studies on healthy adults" for a population of 8-14 year olds.

Foreign body ingestion in children: an audit of transit time, reaches the opposite conclusion: "Transit time appears to increase with age". No hard numbers are given, though. The authors also conclude: "Sifting of the stools is unpleasant [...]."

A quote from a gastroenterology textbook:
"In the first month of life [intestinal] transit time is 8 hours, at age 2 it is 16 hours, between 3 and 13 years it is 26 hours and in an adult it is 48 hours or more. Transit time is largely influenced by the amount of fiber in the diet. Fiber-rich diets favor the retention of water and result in increased stool weight and volume, shorter transit time and more frequent defecation."

There seems to be a variety of opinions on the subject. It seems sensible to me that a child's digestive system, being shorter, would pass food through itself more quickly. I believe as well that there's substantial agreement that Jon Benet wasn't feeling entirely well that night. If the child had diarrhea, then most references seem to agree that food could be expected to pass rapidly though her system indeed.

-Sepka the Space Weasel

 

[rashomon]

There seems to be a variety of opinions on the subject. It seems sensible to me that a child's digestive system, being shorter, would pass food through itself more quickly. I believe as well that there's substantial agreement that Jon Benet wasn't feeling entirely well that night. If the child had diarrhea, then most references seem to agree that food could be expected to pass rapidly though her system indeed.

Didn't JonBenet eat crab at the Whites' before she ate the pineapple? Could remains of the eaten crab be located in her digestive system, and if yes, where where those remains from the crab meal found as compared to the pineapple remains?

 

[capps]

It was stated that PW fixed a small plate of crab for JonBenet. From what I remember, no one knows with 100% certainty if JonBenet ever ate the crab.

 

[narlacat]

Didn't JonBenet eat crab at the Whites' before she ate the pineapple? Could remains of the eaten crab be located in her digestive system, and if yes, where where those remains from the crab meal found as compared to the pineapple remains?

rashomon
The autopsy report stated JonBenét's stomach contained no food.
However, there were fragments of the pineapple in the 'proximal portion' of the small intestine.
There was green fecal matter in the large intestine.
Fruit, when eaten alone digests very quickly.
The pineapple being at the beginning of the small intestine suggests it was eaten not long before she died.
The cracked crab meal eaten at the White's would have been the green fecal matter in the large intestine.

 

[Toltec]

What kind of intruder would have the gall to feed JonBenet pineapple at the breakfast table???? This is laughable.

If the bowl had been found in the basement or another hidden room...then I would possibly look into this intruder theory.

THOSE ARE THE FACTS!!!!

 

[Eagle1]

Patsy's prints on the bowl could easily be explained by her unloading the dishwasher, I know we're all aware. Burke said at first that JonBenet walked up the stairs that night.

I agree that the scream was probably from being assaulted by the broken paint brush. That makes sense, and in a book, The Michigan Co-ed Murders, one dead girl who'd been penetrated by a tree branch had screamed lously enough to be heard at a house quite a distance from the woods where it happened.

Probably JonBenet just felt hungry, and got Burke to get her some pineapple, because she hadn't eaten much if anything at the Whites', and it had been quite a while if she did. As someone said, the green fecal matter may have been what she ate at FW's. Smit didn't say, as far as I know, what fingerprints were found on the bowl in JonBenet's room. Which may have been there for days, for all we know.

Of course AussieShiela could be right that an intruder drugged the pineapple, but he would have to know she'd get hungry,and that pineapple would be what she'd want to eat. There's a perfectly normal and rational explanation, so I can't see why it would be any bugaboo. Burke must have been asked, maybe by the GJ, and must have given a satisfactory answer, but LE doesn't see any need for the public to know.

 

[rashomon]

Of course AussieShiela could be right that an intruder drugged the pineapple,

If memory serves, no traces of any drugs were found in JB's body.
Not to mention the inane scenario that an intruder would have had the nerve to feed JB pineapple in her own house at Christmas, with her whole family in that house, and then wait for an hour until it had left her stomach and wandered into the small intestine. Totally idiotic.
But some people seem to prefer flushing their own common sense down the toilet, only to be spared having to face the bitter truth that JB died at the hands of her own parents.

 

[narlacat]

'You can't handle the truth'!!

I had a hard time believing the parent's were involved but the more I read about this case, the more I had to realise that they not only know what happened, a Ramsey was more than likely directly involved in the death of JonBenét.
Then I convinced myself that it must have been an accident and I ran with that for quite a time.
Now I'm pretty much convinced that JBR's death was premeditated.
Someone wanted that little girl dead and someone is getting away with murder.