The Investigators CTV on Darlie 23 Nov.

[Dani_T]

Thanks Lisa

In May 2003, despite forensics proving tha the disputed finger print is not from the Routiers or investigators, Texas upheld Darlie Routier's conviction.

ARGH. Wrong, wrong, wrong

Dani (PS. this is a different Dani to the one who posed above!)

 

[CrazyMazy]

I had watched the show a couple of months ago .. I too thougt was very slanted in her favor. These guys were going with thier "gut" feelings whe they would interview her. And 2 guys with her pulling her sweet routine - what can you expect ??

THANK GOD she was found guilty in Texas - she will never get off death row.

 

[lisafremont]

Same old stuff. I took notes in case any newbies had questions about what was actually true on the show and what was b.s.

Jeana, please---- come back!!

 

[RPPaolin]

Why would someone (intruder) kill those two boys and leave Darlie for last?

 

[Dani_T]

Why would someone (intruder) kill those two boys and leave Darlie for last?

And not only leave her for last but leave her alive (as well as one of the children alive) and then leave the murder weapon behind

 

[dani]

Thanks Lisa



ARGH. Wrong, wrong, wrong

Dani (PS. this is a different Dani to the one who posed above!)

Hi there, Dani! :crazy:

Do you say "wrong" because Darin's print has not been tested? (Darin is the husband, right?) I'm new to this case and the *Ds* are making me crazy. Of course we have David, Dale, Debbie, Daniel, and Darryl in our family. :doh: (Oh yeah, and me Danielle.)

 

[Dani_T]

Do you say "wrong" because Darin's print has not been tested? (Darin is the husband, right?)

Hi Dani

I'm Danielle as well Nice to see another Dani (1 n, 1 i!!) around.

What is wrong is the claim that the bloody fingerprint has been proven to not belong to any of the Routiers because nothing of the sort has been proven.

The basic story is that at trial the state theorised that that print could have come from one of the boys (no-one ever said that it did- just that the size could be consistent with being from a juvenile). Since then both the defense and the State have both had one expert each who have gone on record about comparing that print with other Routiers and other people on the scene.

The defense expert- Lohnes - ruled out everyone (including Darlie) in his comparison. However, what the defense try to downplay is that when Lohnes and another defense expert (langenberg or something) compared another print on the U-room door they compleetely disagreed with each other.

The state expert- Wertheim- was able to rule out everyone except Darlie's ring finger which she/he was unable to exclude (but also unable to identify as being the source). From the 'Issues of dispited fact or law' - Ms. Wertheim concluded that "all of the people whose fingerprints were compared were excluded as the source of 85 J except Darlie Lynn Routier. (BTW the reason I write he/she for Pat Wertheim is because he/she is referred to as both Ms and Mr in defense documents so I don't know the gender!).

So basically we have two experts who disagree about whether Darlie could have left that print. Nobody has proven at all that she couldn't have.

We also have another defense expert- Jantz - who did an anthropological study on the print which entailed him comparing ridge details and measurments between the print and
a) Damon's prints
b) Devons prints
c) A sample group/s of children's prints
d) Sample group/s of adult female prints
e) Sample groups of adult male prints

His conclusions was that it was highly unlikely the print would have been left by a child and twice as likely that the print would have been left by an adult female rather than an adult male (but you will never hear the defense admit to that). Despite the fact that the defense has written that Jantz excluded all the Routiers as the source he made no report about ever comparing that print to either Darin or Darlie (or any law enforcement officers). So he has nothing to add to whether Darlie could have left that print except the fact that according to his data it is far more likely to have been from an adult female than an adult male.

I hope this has helped a bit. The fingerprint issue can be confusing (and you need to keep in mind the print is smudged and not good quality)- and the worst part is that that is only the table print. There is also one other partial bloody print on the U-room door which is another bone of contention.

Dani

PS. The 'D' names confused me too at first. For the record
Darin- Husband
Darlie- Well we know who she is!
Devon- oldest son - killed
Damon - middle son- killed
Drake - youngest son
Darlie Kee- Darlie's mum
Dana- Darlie's younger sister (there earlier that evening)
Danelle - Darlie's youngest sister
Domain - the Routier dog!!!

 

[dani]

Hi Dani

I'm Danielle as well Nice to see another Dani (1 n, 1 i!!) around.

What is wrong is the claim that the bloody fingerprint has been proven to not belong to any of the Routiers because nothing of the sort has been proven.

The basic story is that at trial the state theorised that that print could have come from one of the boys (no-one ever said that it did- just that the size could be consistent with being from a juvenile). Since then both the defense and the State have both had one expert each who have gone on record about comparing that print with other Routiers and other people on the scene.

The defense expert- Lohnes - ruled out everyone (including Darlie) in his comparison. However, what the defense try to downplay is that when Lohnes and another defense expert (langenberg or something) compared another print on the U-room door they compleetely disagreed with each other.

The state expert- Wertheim- was able to rule out everyone except Darlie's ring finger which she/he was unable to exclude (but also unable to identify as being the source). From the 'Issues of dispited fact or law' - Ms. Wertheim concluded that "all of the people whose fingerprints were compared were excluded as the source of 85 J except Darlie Lynn Routier. (BTW the reason I write he/she for Pat Wertheim is because he/she is referred to as both Ms and Mr in defense documents so I don't know the gender!).

So basically we have two experts who disagree about whether Darlie could have left that print. Nobody has proven at all that she couldn't have.

We also have another defense expert- Jantz - who did an anthropological study on the print which entailed him comparing ridge details and measurments between the print and
a) Damon's prints
b) Devons prints
c) A sample group/s of children's prints
d) Sample group/s of adult female prints
e) Sample groups of adult male prints

His conclusions was that it was highly unlikely the print would have been left by a child and twice as likely that the print would have been left by an adult female rather than an adult male (but you will never hear the defense admit to that). Despite the fact that the defense has written that Jantz excluded all the Routiers as the source he made no report about ever comparing that print to either Darin or Darlie (or any law enforcement officers). So he has nothing to add to whether Darlie could have left that print except the fact that according to his data it is far more likely to have been from an adult female than an adult male.

I hope this has helped a bit. The fingerprint issue can be confusing (and you need to keep in mind the print is smudged and not good quality)- and the worst part is that that is only the table print. There is also one other partial bloody print on the U-room door which is another bone of contention.

Dani

PS. The 'D' names confused me too at first. For the record
Darin- Husband
Darlie- Well we know who she is!
Devon- oldest son - killed
Damon - middle son- killed
Drake - youngest son
Darlie Kee- Darlie's mum
Dana- Darlie's younger sister (there earlier that evening)
Danelle - Darlie's youngest sister
Domain - the Routier dog!!!

Wow! Thank you for that, Dani! :blowkiss:

I asked on another thread if there would be any financial gain for Darlie or Darin if the boys died?

 

[Dani_T]

Wow! Thank you for that, Dani! :blowkiss:

I asked on another thread if there would be any financial gain for Darlie or Darin if the boys died?

I believe that there was a $5000 life insurance on both boys but her family and supporters claim that the funerals cost that much for each of the boys (not that Darlie may have necessarily have known it before she killed them)

 

[dani]

Thank you again, Dani.

$5000 per each boy wouldn't be enough to be motive, IMO. They're right. That's probably not even enough to bury them.

 

[Dani_T]

Thank you again, Dani.

$5000 per each boy wouldn't be enough to be motive, IMO. They're right. That's probably not even enough to bury them.

Yes, but people who murder for money don't often think very far ahead of their actions - especially when the need for money is pressing and they are pretty desperate. And if you are being fuelled by anger (and we know they argued that night) well then... I'm not too sure we can totally disregard it.

But frankly, I don't think money was the only (or even prime) motivating factor. Others may disagree though

 

[CW]

Dani T I agree with you I do not believe that money was Darlie's motive for murding her son's.

 

[railbird]

I had watched the show a couple of months ago .. I too thougt was very slanted in her favor. These guys were going with thier "gut" feelings whe they would interview her. And 2 guys with her pulling her sweet routine - what can you expect ??

THANK GOD she was found guilty in Texas - she will never get off death row.

I find it interesting, that if anything is presented that may cast doubt on the evidence it is considered "slanted in her favor".

It is a horrendous crime and perhaps given the evidence this jury was presented with, their verdit was the correct one. However, IMO, that silly string tape was highly inflammatory and should not have been presented with out the survellience tape. I think the pictures of her in the hospital should have been entered as evidence - some may find the cuts questionable but how does someone bruise themself like that? What is this crap about LE officers 'taking the fifth'? IMO, that should never be tolerated. Something is definitely wrong when LE fear incrimination.

Incrimination:

• To accuse of a crime or other wrongful act.
• To cause to appear guilty of a crime or fault; implicate:
• n. an accusation that you are responsible for some lapse or misdeed;

The transcript is another area that raises many questions. Didn't the 'reporter' admit to someone she thought Routier was guilty? If that is so, those errors are very likely more than just errors; especially when altered to indicate the opposite of what was actually said.

Then there is the cancelled hearings. Very strange indeed.

What of the sock found in the alley? If Routier placed it there where are the bloody footsteps? Didn't they find bloody footsteps, said to be hers, at the home? Why would she risk being witnessed to plant a sock?

Was any motive ever introduced? What was to be gained?

This one stinks as bad as the Binion murder trial.

 

[Dani_T]

tI think the pictures of her in the hospital should have been entered as evidence - some may find the cuts questionable but how does someone bruise themself like that?

Those photos were entered into evidence. Even Darlie's defense team who represented her at that trial said that they were admitted into evidence.

The transcript is another area that raises many questions. Didn't the 'reporter' admit to someone she thought Routier was guilty? If that is so, those errors are very likely more than just errors; especially when altered to indicate the opposite of what was actually said.

That is a big call - to say that just because a court reporter might have an opinion about the guilt or innocence of a defendant they would act in an unethical and illegal manner and change the record of a trial. It would be professional suicide, and I don't see how you can say it is 'likely' it happend here without casting doubt on every transcript of every trial that has ever been recorded by a court reporter (because surely they all have opinions about the guilt or innocence of the defendant).

Regarding the errors in the transcripts- you'll keep hearing the number 30,000 (or is it 300,000) bandied around. What you won't hear is that the vast number of all of these are punctuation, grammatical or spelling errors.

What of the sock found in the alley? If Routier placed it there where are the bloody footsteps? Didn't they find bloody footsteps, said to be hers, at the home? Why would she risk being witnessed to plant a sock?

No bloody footprints because she hadn't cut herself yet (or at least her neck). Lots of bloody prints in the home because she was then bleeding freely from a number of wounds.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

The officers took the Fifth on the witness stand with regard to bugging the grave because the Routiers were suing them personally for doing so. Of course, the Routiers don't want anyone to know about that. Why? Because if Darlie truly was innocent, they would have had absolutely NO PROBLEM whatsoever with the police doing everything and everything in their power to catch whomever was responsible for these murders.

Thankfully, the suit was dismissed.

 

[lisafremont]

Jeana, you offered to give a list of mistakes you noted in this INVESTIGATORS show. I hope you do.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Well, there wasn't a ton of actual lies, just stuff that wasn't necessarily true or was slanted in an incorrect way.

The fact that she claims Damon woke her up by pressing on her shoulder. His bloody handprint was wiped off the couch.
The fact that he was standing at one point according to Darlie, but was found on his stomach and he was stabbed in the back.

If they were renewing their vows months down the road, why was Darlie's wedding dress already out? After all, any woman on a serious diet will tell you, you'll be wearing a completely different size a few months down the road.

They claim that there was a two-hour long tearful ceremony before the silly string party, but when you see Darlie's face during that silly string party, there is no redness, no puffyness, no sign that she had been crying. For those of you who have seen Darlie actually cry (for herself in prison by the way), you'll be able to tell immediately that she had been crying because her face is red and puffy.

They claim that they paid $250,000 for the house. I can't be 100% sure because it was too long ago, but I believe they paid approximately $119,000 for the house. They were not "well to do" as was claimed in the television show. Darin was making less than $60,000 by the time the boys were murdered. Compared to the $200,000+ he had been making previously, this is devastating. Getting notices from one's mortgage company that you're two months behind is devastating.

Darlie's letters from prison that read "I know who murdered the boys." We've all been around these murder investigations a time or two. How many other times has a guilty defendant said this??

The bruise photos WERE shown during the trial. This is one myth that the camp fire girls love. However, when Darlie's own defense attorney is on tape saying that they ABSOLUTELY WERE shown at trial, this is devastating to her case.

Darlie was very generous to everyone she knew apparently. Going from Mrs. Showboat to Mrs. My House is Getting Foreclosed on is stressful. Having three children under the age of five every day is stressful. Not having a working automobile is stressful. Business failing is stressful. Signs of stress were showing up every where around Darlie and Darin, yet they have the nerve to say that she was handling it. She was NOT handling it. She was a basket case on speed (diet pills). Insomnia coupled with all of the other stresses in Darlie's life made her snap. They had an argument. She asked for a separation or a divorce, Darin said no problem. She murdered the boys.

 

[lisafremont]

How about Darin's saying that Darlie almost bled to death?

Her wounds were superficial. This case reminds me very much of the Jeffrey MacDonald case except that she didn't kill Darin and Drake and MacDonald slaughtered both of his daughters and his pregnant wife. Both claimed intruder/intruders did it. Both scenes bore no eivdence of struggle. Both defendants were only slightly wounded. Both were convicted and have a few people who believe in their innocence.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Lisa, the human body contains about six quarts of blood. While the white carpet in the Routier home looked pretty bloody, none of us were there to examine the carpeting to see if it was soaked through with blood or if it was surface deep only. Since the boys were mortally wounded with repeated deep penetrating wounds to their torsos, I would guess that a hell of a lot of that blood belonged to them. Let's say for argument's sake that about a quart and a half of Darlie's blood is on the floor between the kitchen and the family room. That leaves her plenty of blood to survive with and she was nowhere near death.

Since the treating doctor at the emergency room said that he would have released Darlie almost immediately after treatment had it not been for the death of the boys and the media attention, I think that its pretty safe to assume she was never in any real danger of dying.

 

[Dani_T]

Lisa, the human body contains about six quarts of blood. While the white carpet in the Routier home looked pretty bloody, none of us were there to examine the carpeting to see if it was soaked through with blood or if it was surface deep only. Since the boys were mortally wounded with repeated deep penetrating wounds to their torsos, I would guess that a hell of a lot of that blood belonged to them. Let's say for argument's sake that about a quart and a half of Darlie's blood is on the floor between the kitchen and the family room. That leaves her plenty of blood to survive with and she was nowhere near death.

Since the treating doctor at the emergency room said that he would have released Darlie almost immediately after treatment had it not been for the death of the boys and the media attention, I think that its pretty safe to assume she was never in any real danger of dying.

I seem to remember that someone (maybe on of the paramedics) said that she was never in any danger of bleeding out.