The jonbenet Ramsey letter

[TizerisT]

I know your picture is from Christmas 1996. I meant the other picture that was posted by the other poster.

So, no its Streetview 2019

 

[TizerisT]

And look at his reaction when asked about it (from 40:00) Study this carefully, because I'm telling you, people, this is the guy with the most arrows pointing at him

 

[CloudedTruth]

If he had broken in previously, he may have already pocketed such items beforehand

Stun gun marks can vary depending on pulling away, angle, etc, agreed but I think it resembles a stun gun-type object more than anything else I can compare it to. I think likely it was first applied while she was sleeping, then again as she struggled downstairs. Oliva was found to have a stun gun. In 1996 this was rare.

DNA has been very much compromised due to calamity from the police. A clear, fresh testing on the garotte / underwear in 2024 would give us some new answers, almost certainly.

Oliva was found to have a stun gun upon his arrest for a different crime in 2002, six years later. There is no proof that he had one in 1996.

Interesting that JR claimed he felt like they were being watched and that someone may have broken in to the house prior. And yet made no move to have locks changed, left a window broken and unfixed for months and had not bothered to turn the burglar alarm system on for months. It’s just more R spin to throw suspicion elsewhere.

 

[TizerisT]

Oliva was found to have a stun gun upon his arrest for a different crime in 2002, six years later. There is no proof that he had one in 1996.

I would like to delve deeper into these points. Thanks for your viewpoint on this.
Instead of saying: but 1996 and 2002 are a long time apart, you should be thinking: He's been carrying these for many years.. How normal is that, in 90's suburbia Boulder, to walk around with stun-guns on you?

Interesting that JR claimed he felt like they were being watched and that someone may have broken in to the house prior. And yet made no move to have locks changed, left a window broken and unfixed for months and had not bothered to turn the burglar alarm system on for months. It’s just more R spin to throw suspicion elsewhere.

Yep, the parents were naive and slow to fix these problems. The reality was there was 40 registered sex offenders present within a 2 mile radius and a 'highly rated' 6 yr old beauty queen in a house with leaky security = recipe for disaster.
I think Oliva watched her bedroom window from the alleyway.

I will lay down my more detailed thesis soon.

 

[CloudedTruth]

I would like to delve deeper into these points. Thanks for your viewpoint on this.
Instead of saying: but 1996 and 2002 are a long time apart, you should be thinking: He's been carrying these for many years.. How normal is that, in 90's suburbia Boulder, to walk around with stun-guns on you?

Yep, the parents were naive and slow to fix these problems. The reality was there was 40 registered sex offenders present within a 2 mile radius and a 'highly rated' 6 yr old beauty queen in a house with leaky security = recipe for disaster.
I think Oliva watched her bedroom window from the alleyway.

I will lay down my more detailed thesis soon.

Why should I be thinking "he's been carrying these for many years" when there is no proof that he was? For all anyone knows, he could have acquired whatever stun gun he may have had the day before his arrest. Another suspect in this case, Michael Helgoth also owned a stun gun. Perhaps having one wasn't as unusual as you seem to think. The 90's is when they became widely used by police in lieu of lethal force. As crime has increased in time, many people look to ways to protect themselves in ways other than guns. Hence the popularity of pepper spray and stun guns. Oliva has a criminal background. It was probably easier for him to get a stun gun than a gun that fires bullets. That he had one in his possession certainly raises questions as well as the potential of him as a suspect, but it by no means is proof of guilt. I wonder how many people in Boulder owned Hi-Tec boots? Should they all be suspects too?

Naive and slow? I think it's safe to say that most people who think they are being watched and have suspicions that their house has been broken into would take measures to ensure their safety, in particular if they have young children. To have an alarm system and not use it under these circumstances isn't naive, it's plain lazy and dumb. Again, it points to dishonesty and a lack of concern on JR's part about his verbally expressed concern. His lack of action and concern contradicts what he told LE. His company was a subsidiary of Lockheed Martin, which as I'm sure you know was / is a defense company, a leading global security company. As such, there are very specific expectations and rules / regulations that one must agree to as an employee, and in particular as an executive. The suspicion of being watched should have been reported to the security department of LM. It would have been of concern to them. Additionally, there is a specific plan to be followed should certain instances occur that are a security threat. One of those is kidnapping. JR did not follow the stated protocol at any point.

 

[Meara]

the killers writing vs Oliva's writing. Look at the uneven style. To the left, then right, in a distinctive way.
Let it not be lost on the reader, that both letters are requests for money! From the same individual surely...
View attachment 485296

In my opinion, the plan was a kidnapping, but he found it too hard, so he just took her to the basement and then raped / killed her and left

Before we go futher into stun guns, I'd like to say that I see very significant differences between the writing in the ransom note and Oliva's. Some points of comparison:

Ransom Note
Little compression (how much each word spreads out across the line)
Wide spacing between words
Average spacing between lines
Bobbing along baseline (letters slightly above and below the straight horizontal)
Some tapering in longer words (letter height decreases towards end of word)
Varying forward slant
Wide variation in lower case "t" and lower case "e"
Frequent curving and slanting of lower case 'l"
Some letters connected
Careful punctuation

Oliva's Note
High compression
Wide word spacing but less than in the RN
Close spacing between lines
Almost no deviation from baseline
No tapering
No forward slant
Almost no variation in "t" and "e"
Lower case "l" is uniformly straight and without slant
Letters not connected
Imperfect punctuation (comma missing after 'Also;' apostrophe missing from 'collector's')

Though certainly no expert, I have done my share of handwriting analysis and know the categories of traits to assess (e.g., compression, spacing). Since the traits are typically unconscious, people tend to overlook altering them when attempting to disguise their writing.

 

[Meara]

Rats. The side-by-side comparison of the two scripts didn't come through in the quote from TizarisT. I'll try to post it below. If it doesn't come through again, you can find it on p. 4 at post #71.

 

[TizerisT]

I urge anyone with doubts to re-read the link provided in post 78: it details the connection far better than I can, so I'll just refer back to that. The handwriting experts have basically said the similarities are extremely compelling.
Once you see it, you can't unsee it. This pretty much confirms it for me. A confirmed local stalker pedo that was obsessed with JB with writing almost identical to the killer. Too many arrows all pointing at Oliva.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Before we go futher into stun guns, I'd like to say that I see very significant differences between the writing in the ransom note and Oliva's. Some points of comparison:

Ransom Note
Little compression (how much each word spreads out across the line)
Wide spacing between words
Average spacing between lines
Bobbing along baseline (letters slightly above and below the straight horizontal)
Some tapering in longer words (letter height decreases towards end of word)
Varying forward slant
Wide variation in lower case "t" and lower case "e"
Frequent curving and slanting of lower case 'l"
Some letters connected
Careful punctuation

Oliva's Note
High compression
Wide word spacing but less than in the RN
Close spacing between lines
Almost no deviation from baseline
No tapering
No forward slant
Almost no variation in "t" and "e"
Lower case "l" is uniformly straight and without slant
Letters not connected
Imperfect punctuation (comma missing after 'Also;' apostrophe missing from 'collector's')

Though certainly no expert, I have done my share of handwriting analysis and know the categories of traits to assess (e.g., compression, spacing). Since the traits are typically unconscious, people tend to overlook altering them when attempting to disguise their writing.

Agreed. The differences are definitely more significant that any similarities. If I were asked if I thought those two handwriting samples were made by the same person, my answer would be no. Admittedly, I am no expert, but to my untrained eye they do not look similar at all.

I find it interesting that all these years later, suddenly there's this revelation being made that Gary Oliva wrote the RN. I do believe that his handwriting was analyzed along with some other suspects at the time by Boulder PD and they came to a different conclusion. I would also note that those graphologists were working with the original RN. There are a lot of experts who have determined the similarities with PR's handwriting are many and significant. So they're all wrong?

Oliva has been on the radar of this case since very early on due to some admittedly disturbing facts, not the least of which is his eventual "confession". But he isn't the only one who confessed, is he? The stun gun theory is just that, a theory which cannot be proven. The coroner did not equate those marks with a stun gun, and when asked for the chance to further examine to see if it could be determined if they were in fact made by a stun gun, the R's refused to agree to an exhumation. Oliva's DNA was also not a match to the small amount of unidentified male DNA that was found, nor was any of his DNA found anywhere in the house. Had he broken into the house at any time prior as well as to commit the crime as has been suggested, one would expect to find traces of his presence. Oliva is clearly a nut job who I very seriously doubt had the capacity to commit this crime and go undetected for all these years.

I also have to call into doubt the credibility and actual credentials of Dr. Mozelle Martin, who has a fairly sketchy background. The fact that this is being reported in a UK gossip rag is also a bit of a red flag.

 

[TizerisT]

There are a lot of experts who have determined the similarities with PR's handwriting are many and significant. So they're all wrong?

Yes, they are wrong. The comparison with Patsy's writing is laughable, you can point out some similarities but they pale into insignificance compared to Oliva's notes.

Oliva's DNA was also not a match to the small amount of unidentified male DNA that was found, nor was any of his DNA found anywhere in the house. Had he broken into the house at any time prior as well as to commit the crime as has been suggested, one would expect to find traces of his presence. Oliva is clearly a nut job who I very seriously doubt had the capacity to commit this crime and go undetected for all these years.

Crime scene DNA was horribly compromised. Amateur police allowed 18 (According to Arndt) friends and family members to roam the house. That is ridiculous. A fresh test with 2024 touch DNA technology is what we need.
There's often a tendancy to think of unsolved killings as a 'masterplan'. But it doesnt require any real capacity from the killer when you have incompetance on the level of Boulder PD. Oliva is a knucklehead, the Police's farcical approach to the crime scene basically handed him a reprieve.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Yes, they are wrong. The comparison with Patsy's writing is laughable, you can point out some similarities but they pale into significance compared to Oliva's notes.

Crime scene DNA was horribly compromised. Amateur police allowed 18 (According to Arndt) friends and family members to roam the house. That is ridiculous. A fresh test with 2024 touch DNA technology is what we need.
There's often a tendancy to think of unsolved killings as a 'masterplan'. It doesnt require any real capacity from the killer when you have incompetance on the level of Boulder PD. Oliva is a knucklehead, the Police's farcical approach to the crime scene basically handed him a reprieve.

Laughable? Hardly. I’d put up the credentials of all the experts used against Martin. Have you looked into her history? You should.

The “incompetence” factor has been widely pushed, especially by team R. Yes, mistakes were made. But they were also greatly hampered by a compromised DA and R high powered attorneys.

 

[TizerisT]

I don't even think the credentials or history of Martin are important. I'm just using my own eyes. Even considering the different pens, paper, and scenario, plus the inevitable disguising, the link is definitely there.

Another thing, old Gary seems to have an odd habit on the words receive and deceive. All the c's and e's in the middle get confused and they just look the same

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Tricia states over and over that PR wrote the rn. Period. No use comparing somebody else. Besides logically think about it, who else would put the sharpie back in it’s original container?

 

[CloudedTruth]

View attachment 486286
I don't even think the credentials or history of Martin are important. I'm just using my own eyes. Even considering the different pens, paper, and scenario, plus the inevitable disguising, the link is definitely there.

Another thing, old Gary seems to have an odd habit on the words receive and deceive. All the c's and e's in the middle get confused and they just look the same

View attachment 486288

You don't think the credentials of someone claiming to be an expert in a specific field are important? Wow. I certainly do. And so do courts of law.

 

[TizerisT]

Tricia states over and over that PR wrote the rn. Period. No use comparing somebody else. Besides logically think about it, who else would put the sharpie back in it’s original container?

You need to free yourself from this notion that Tricia can't be wrong.

The sharpie: why would a mother, after a murderous rage, even be thinking about something like that? Far more pressing issues at hand, I would have thought. The pen belonged to the family anyway, putting in it's original box gives her no advantage.

The more likely scenario: The intruder snuck in between 17:00 - 22:00, while the family were visiting the Whites. He penned the letter and put the marker back in it's original box so that everything appeared 'just as it was'. He then proceeds to lie in wait.

I'm just going by what you said happened, source for the sharpie thing please, I cant find it

 

[Rain on my Parade]

You need to free yourself from this notion that Tricia can't be wrong.

The sharpie: why would a mother, after a murderous rage, even be thinking about something like that? Far more pressing issues at hand, I would have thought. The pen belonged to the family anyway, putting in it's original box gives her no advantage.

The more likely scenario: The intruder snuck in between 17:00 - 22:00, while the family were visiting the Whites. He penned the letter and put the marker back in it's original box so that everything appeared 'just as it was'. He then proceeds to lie in wait.

There is no intruder nor evidence of.

I'm just going by what you said happened, source for the sharpie thing please, I cant find it

Source for sharpie thing?

 

[TizerisT]

There is no intruder nor evidence of

You've got an open basement window, with clear Hi-Tec footprints outside of it and also on the briefcase under it, as well as debris that came in from outside. Plus, John Andrews room looking disturbed and a mystery bit of rope, I think maybe under his bed. Strong evidence of a stun gun. And seven windows had been opened according to one source. These are massive red flags.

Yes where can I read more about the sharpie being placed back in the box

 

[Meara]

You've got an open basement window, with clear Hi-Tec footprints outside of it and also on the briefcase under it, as well as debris that came in from outside. Plus, John Andrews room looking disturbed and a mystery bit of rope, I think maybe under his bed. Strong evidence of a stun gun. And seven windows had been opened according to one source. These are massive red flags.

Yes where can I read more about the sharpie being placed back in the box

Kolar; Kindle, p. 336
Boulder investigators had located the pad in the rear kitchen hallway, and the Sharpie pen that was eventually identified as the instrument used to write the note was in a cup below the kitchen phone Patsy had used to call 911.

Thomas; Kindle p. 191
The telephone from which the 911 call was made was located in a small recessed nook on the southwest wall. Beneath the phone had been the cup that held the Sharpie pen. How would any stranger know the writing implements were so handy, and why take the time to put it in the cup when he wanted to flee from a murder scene? Why not just leave them on the table when finished writing? Why not bring a completed ransom note with him?

Schiller; Kindle, p. 167 and p. 169
The police listed twenty-five indications that pointed away from an intruder. Lab tests showed that the fine-line Sharpie pen with which the note was written was one that Patsy had used before.....8. The Sharpie pen used to write the note was not found close to where the pad was discovered but in a cup next to the kitchen phone where the pen was kept.

 

[TizerisT]

Thanks for that, very interesting.
It still fits what I'm saying though, somebody wishing to remain undetected would be inclined to put things back neatly where they found them.

 

[CloudedTruth]

You've got an open basement window, with clear Hi-Tec footprints outside of it and also on the briefcase under it, as well as debris that came in from outside. Plus, John Andrews room looking disturbed and a mystery bit of rope, I think maybe under his bed. Strong evidence of a stun gun. And seven windows had been opened according to one source. These are massive red flags.

Yes where can I read more about the sharpie being placed back in the box

I think you should check your sources for accuracy. There were no footprints outside the window or on the suitcase. A partial footprint in the wine cellar indicating the hi-tec boot, which BR admitted to owning. One p sized piece of glass on the suitcase, no debris. Spider web with dust and leaves intact and undisturbed in window. The stun gun theory came from Lou Smit, unproven and many do not agree. Calling it “strong evidence” is a stretch. Who’s the source for 7 windows? According to JR, all doors and windows were closed and locked, except the one in the basement. Interesting to note that he claimed to have found it open a little but neglected to tell the police about it until Fleet White saw the broken window. Then came the ridiculous story about JR breaking it months before to climb inside in his underwear no less, because he’d lost his keys. He always used the garage opener and entered the hose through the garage.