The Phone Calls in the early morning of Dec.18, 2013 (both PayPhone & cells)

[Mahouston69]

Alright since this is the phone call thread, I will ask this- doesn't the fact that BW said HE was crying bc she had moved on from that "relationship" imply that there was in fact a relationship? The fact that she was crying-imply some level of emotion? I also remember thinking that the "abusive ex boyfriend" was a fabrication for HE's parents. Maybe to cover for the whole married/father/kind of crazy wife thing? Did anyone else think that? I can't remember HE mentioning another boyfriend at this SAME time as SM? Is that right? Or did they just closely follow each other?

I think the co-worker, boyfriend was a cover for mom and dad, so they wouldn't know she was seeing a way older married man and the 'may be abusive' thought from TE came from seeing bruises from the rumored altercation with TM.

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[CarmonCayman]

Terry Elvis also confirmed, early on, that neither he nor his wife knew if Heather had changed her clothes after to the first date to go out to meet SM, even though he had a photo of Heather wearing her "date clothes" from that night (Dec 17), and that photo was even published.

Unless Terry or his wife went to her apartment and searched for the clothes that Heather wore in the pic she sent him I see zero chance they would know if she changed clothes. Not sure what is being implied here.


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[Ghostwheel]

Alright since this is the phone call thread, I will ask this- doesn't the fact that BW said HE was crying bc she had moved on from that "relationship" imply that there was in fact a relationship? The fact that she was crying-imply some level of emotion? I also remember thinking that the "abusive ex boyfriend" was a fabrication for HE's parents. Maybe to cover for the whole married/father/kind of crazy wife thing? Did anyone else think that? I can't remember HE mentioning another boyfriend at this SAME time as SM? Is that right? Or did they just closely follow each other?

In the original missing person report, there was another name included, mentioned as a former boyfriend, possibly violent, possibly working at one of the places where Heather worked (the actual place was named, but I'm choosing to leave that out at the moment). It was my belief that this is a previous boyfriend, but in reading what Mahouston wrote below, maybe this guy wasn't an actual boyfriend or this previous boyfriend wasn't violent. As another thought, Heather might have broken up with previous boyfriend and gotten together with SM and just not mentioned that to her parents, and the bruises she had ("falling down the stairs at work") caused concerns.

I think the co-worker, boyfriend was a cover for mom and dad, so they wouldn't know she was seeing a way older married man and the 'may be abusive' thought from TE came from seeing bruises from the rumored altercation with TM.

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[nosysw]

Alright since this is the phone call thread, I will ask this- doesn't the fact that BW said HE was crying bc she had moved on from that "relationship" imply that there was in fact a relationship? The fact that she was crying-imply some level of emotion? I also remember thinking that the "abusive ex boyfriend" was a fabrication for HE's parents. Maybe to cover for the whole married/father/kind of crazy wife thing? Did anyone else think that? I can't remember HE mentioning another boyfriend at this SAME time as SM? Is that right? Or did they just closely follow each other?

Above BBM:

I have always felt this way. Wouldn't more have come out about this "possibly violent" ex by now if this was a true story?

 

[4evernbluejeans]

Above BBM:

I have always felt this way. Wouldn't more have come out about this "possibly violent" ex by now if this was a true story?

Hey nosysw! I think if this was a real story it would have been brought up by now. Let's say it is true-SM would be privy to this info IMO. Why? Well because HE was a young girl and she would have told him about her "problem" with this other man. SM would have been able to throw that out to LE when they were questioning him..or even to the reporter who showed up on his front doorstep. A name may come out during the trial, from the defense-as a deflector. But I think that if the M's had the name of an abusive ex boyfriend of HE's-someone in that group would have been blasting it by now at the very least on FB. All my opinion of courrrrrse!

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Above BBM:

I have always felt this way. Wouldn't more have come out about this "possibly violent" ex by now if this was a true story?

How would anything come out about him? The local media is not going to do any investigating, especially someone who is not considered to be involved. The Elvis family have had the Moorers as the main suspects from the start so they aren't going to release information on the ex-boyfriend, who they think had nothing to do with it.

 

[nosysw]

How would anything come out about him? The local media is not going to do any investigating, especially someone who is not considered to be involved. The Elvis family have had the Moorers as the main suspects from the start so they aren't going to release information on the ex-boyfriend, who they think had nothing to do with it.

I will just say, please read the post above yours. 4evernbluejeans again stated exactly what I was thinking. The Moorers would have put that out there when TM was blabbing away on social media. As well as their supporters since that time. But, nothing. Even though it was specifically mentioned in the PR. I believe they would have jumped all over it if they could have thrown mud on anyone else (as they and their supporters have tried to on TE). MOO.

 

[PPKik]

Early on. Why would they know what she wore that night? She lived on her own at 20 years old. I can see forgetting about the text pic, but come on now.
Bits and pieces doesn't make any report or interview true. jmo

Dr. Know? I didn't say they knew what she wore. I said they knew whether she changed her clothes or not. That's a huge difference. They did not admit that they knew. Why?

Terry said this himself in an interview, that they (parents) didn't know. Of course they knew if she changed her clothes. Does anyone think Heather's parents never checked her apartment (BW's) after they believed she was missing? She could have been there, ill or anything else. If anyone thinks they didn't check the apartment....well, I don't even know what to say. That's just bizarre. Even if they never went there, the police did. Do you think the police would not tell the parents of a missing person if they found her "date clothes," or not? Does anyone think the police waited weeks to check the apartment for Heather?

Be honest and fair. Heather texted a picture of herself driving a stick shift. A big deal for her and Terry, when he talked about it later. Heather went missing only a few hours later and her parents forgot about the last photo, maybe the last communication, ever? Not possible. (IMO)

They are her parents!! If you think they forgot about the photo and never checked the apartment for Heather before deciding she had come to a bad end, I don't know what to think.

IIRC Terry told a disreputable blogger, whose name we don't use, that he didn't know whether Heather had changed or not. This didn't come out of bits and pieces or gossip.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Dr. Know? I didn't say they knew what she wore. I said they knew whether she changed her clothes or not. That's a huge difference. They did not admit that they knew. Why?

Terry said this himself in an interview, that they (parents) didn't know. Of course they knew if she changed her clothes. Does anyone think Heather's parents never checked her apartment (BW's) after they believed she was missing? She could have been there, ill or anything else. If anyone thinks they didn't check the apartment....well, I don't even know what to say. That's just bizarre. Even if they never went there, the police did. Do you think the police would not tell the parents of a missing person if they found her "date clothes," or not? Does anyone think the police waited weeks to check the apartment for Heather?

Be honest and fair. Heather texted a picture of herself driving a stick shift. A big deal for her and Terry, when he talked about it later. Heather went missing only a few hours later and her parents forgot about the last photo, maybe the last communication, ever? Not possible. (IMO)

They are her parents!! If you think they forgot about the photo and never checked the apartment for Heather before deciding she had come to a bad end, I don't know what to think.

IIRC Terry told a disreputable blogger, whose name we don't use, that he didn't know whether Heather had changed or not. This didn't come out of bits and pieces or gossip.

I don't think it would be that hard to see whether Heather's date clothes were still in her apartment. I suppose it is possible that neither Terry or LE went back to the apartment, well that would just be odd, but maybe they didn't think to check the clothes? One possibility I thought of is that since they thought that Heather was dead from the beginning, anything about what she was wearing was irrelevant? I can't figure out why they would say they don't know if Heather changed clothes, unless they just never bothered to check (which I don't really understand either).

 

[4evernbluejeans]

Thought- SM and HE have a way of communicating that is IDK, layered? Suppose he somehow keeps up with what is going on with her through other TK employees? How about SM is back from his trip to WALLY world with the MRS. and he is mopey? TM who is highly sensitive to his mood swings since the affair says something like "what's wrong? Haven't seen your little girlfriend(nice term) in a while? SM falls easily for the bait and says "she has moved on, she has a date tonight." This is all the info TM needs to know a) SM is still thinking about HE. b) SM is not happy about HE moving on. Just a little reading between the lines by a woman, worried about her cheating spouse. The night then becomes a non ending argument that somehow leads to HE being contacted and lured to the PTL. Maybe the "date" was a way for HE to try and make SM think about her....and it unfortunately worked?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

What if Tammy decides to see if Heather was truly over Sidney. So she has Sidney call her, and when she agrees to meet him, she flips out? Like "I thought you were out of our lives, and now you want to meet my husband after he tells you he is leaving me for you! You are just waiting for the right moment to steal him again!" I could definitely see Tammy snapping like that if that were to happen. I don't believe it was premeditated since the breakup, but I also don't think Sidney was genuine.

I still wonder why Sidney would go along with it. Did Tammy threaten to abuse him if he did not? He hasn't asked for any deal, nor did we hear about using abuse as a defense (gag order was not issued right away).

 

[Motherof5]

Thought- SM and HE have a way of communicating that is IDK, layered? Suppose he somehow keeps up with what is going on with her through other TK employees? How about SM is back from his trip to WALLY world with the MRS. and he is mopey? TM who is highly sensitive to his mood swings since the affair says something like "what's wrong? Haven't seen your little girlfriend(nice term) in a while? SM falls easily for the bait and says "she has moved on, she has a date tonight." This is all the info TM needs to know a) SM is still thinking about HE. b) SM is not happy about HE moving on. Just a little reading between the lines by a woman, worried about her cheating spouse. The night then becomes a non ending argument that somehow leads to HE being contacted and lured to the PTL. Maybe the "date" was a way for HE to try and make SM think about her....and it unfortunately worked?

I think the M's could have been out and about and might have seen her on her date...then,as you said, the fighting began.


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[Motherof5]

What if Tammy decides to see if Heather was truly over Sidney. So she has Sidney call her, and when she agrees to meet him, she flips out? Like "I thought you were out of our lives, and now you want to meet my husband after he tells you he is leaving me for you! You are just waiting for the right moment to steal him again!" I could definitely see Tammy snapping like that if that were to happen. I don't believe it was premeditated since the breakup, but I also don't think Sidney was genuine.

I still wonder why Sidney would go along with it. Did Tammy threaten to abuse him if he did not? He hasn't asked for any deal, nor did we hear about using abuse as a defense (gag order was not issued right away).

You could be right. I've never thought of it that way. They call Heather but she doesn't take the bait right away...then later she calls back. Maybe they were caught off guard and that's why they didn't answer right away? I am always stuck on why SM would go along with it. I've wondered if TM gave him two choices...do what I say or you are out. He didn't seem to be close to his parents so going to their place might not be an option and if she throws him out he would no longer have the lifestyle he's used to. I don't know if he knew that Heather wasn't living at home. He probably thought that moving in with her wasn't an option. I also wondered if TM threatened to tell her father. I just get the feeling that SM wouldn't want WC finding out about the affair...but he did anyway.


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[stillwatersc]

I think the M's could have been out and about and might have seen her on her date...then,as you said, the fighting began.

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I think it is a possibility the M's saw Heather & her date leaving the TK. It hasn't been reported that they went there, but they both work there, so they could have swung by on the way back to Heather's. The M's were at BATB doing their IE sometime that night.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

MB/HC is not exactly a small town with one little main street. So what is the chance that they saw each other? I suppose if Heather and the date went to TK, that might make it more likely. I live in a community that is more populated (40k people) and I never see people I know around town. Maybe locals can weigh in if it is common, but it just seems like a huge chance that the Moorers would spot Heather. Not impossible though.

And if the Moorers did see Heather, why would that set them off?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

You could be right. I've never thought of it that way. They call Heather but she doesn't take the bait right away...then later she calls back. Maybe they were caught off guard and that's why they didn't answer right away? I am always stuck on why SM would go along with it. I've wondered if TM gave him two choices...do what I say or you are out. He didn't seem to be close to his parents so going to their place might not be an option and if she throws him out he would no longer have the lifestyle he's used to. I don't know if he knew that Heather wasn't living at home. He probably thought that moving in with her wasn't an option. I also wondered if TM threatened to tell her father. I just get the feeling that SM wouldn't want WC finding out about the affair...but he did anyway.


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I don't know if SM losing his lifestyle would be enough to kill. SM did have a job and skills, so it is not like he would be going onto welfare (I don't think). Would no more Disney trips be a reason to take part in a murder? People have killed for less, sadly. But people have speculated that the Disney trips were more of Tammy's thing. I don't know much about the difference between the Moorer/Caison lifestyle, and a single Sidney lifestyle, or how much of a drop it would be. Since I think this crime was not planned much in advance, it is possible he didn't even think it through.

I think if SM was abused, his lawyer would have yelled it as soon as he was hired. I also think that if SM was able to get a deal, he would. Say they drove to PTL, and TM shot Heather, could SM get a deal for saying where she is? No deal tells me that he was also strongly involved in what happened that night.

 

[Motherof5]

MB/HC is not exactly a small town with one little main street. So what is the chance that they saw each other? I suppose if Heather and the date went to TK, that might make it more likely. I live in a community that is more populated (40k people) and I never see people I know around town. Maybe locals can weigh in if it is common, but it just seems like a huge chance that the Moorers would spot Heather. Not impossible though.

And if the Moorers did see Heather, why would that set them off?

I don't live there so I'll let the other locals comment on running into people they know. I was thinking that if they did see Heather and her date,maybe TM didn't like SM's reaction to seeing Heather with someone else? I don't know...just pondering different things.

 

[Motherof5]

I don't know if SM losing his lifestyle would be enough to kill. SM did have a job and skills, so it is not like he would be going onto welfare (I don't think). Would no more Disney trips be a reason to take part in a murder? People have killed for less, sadly. But people have speculated that the Disney trips were more of Tammy's thing. I don't know much about the difference between the Moorer/Caison lifestyle, and a single Sidney lifestyle, or how much of a drop it would be. Since I think this crime was not planned much in advance, it is possible he didn't even think it through.

I think if SM was abused, his lawyer would have yelled it as soon as he was hired. I also think that if SM was able to get a deal, he would. Say they drove to PTL, and TM shot Heather, could SM get a deal for saying where she is? No deal tells me that he was also strongly involved in what happened that night.

I don't either. I do think that SM was just as into the Disney thing as TM and I could be wrong. I'm wondering if maybe it isn't about what would push SM to commit or assist in murder but more about the fact that he doesn't seem to say no to TM or stand up to her and I'm not putting the entire thing on TM. He could have stopped this from happening but didn't.

 

[Hatfield]

I don't either. I do think that SM was just as into the Disney thing as TM and I could be wrong. I'm wondering if maybe it isn't about what would push SM to commit or assist in murder but more about the fact that he doesn't seem to say no to TM or stand up to her and I'm not putting the entire thing on TM. He could have stopped this from happening but didn't.

I agree.

JMO
Just wanted to add that I will not be surprised if we end up finding out that a 3rd party helped in the coverup and disposal, and maybe even perhaps in the planning or execution as well.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Was it ever said whether PTL was a common meeting spot for Sidney and Heather? I feel like it was but anyway...

If not, it seems unlikely to me that the call was genuine and Tammy went into a rage because of it. The reason is...What if Sidney had asked Heather to meet him in a parking lot, a diner, her apartment...basically, any place that was not deserted, in the middle of nowhere? Unless this was a common spot, it seems like a big coincidence that Sidney would ask Heather to meet him somewhere that would just be perfect spot for an abduction/murder.