The ransom note

[tumble]

No he didn't. The RN writer IMO considered that upstairs occupants may come looking for JBR missing from her bed, and find the note on the stairs before finding JBR. Thats why the note was left on the stairs.

There were two stairs leading down. The note was found in the back stair. That was not an obvious choice. The R's could be going down the main stair never finding the note.

JBR's room was above the stairs, meaning it would be very likely that the parents would find that JBR was missing before the note was found. Looking for their missing child they could easily miss the note. If I were a kidnapper I would not count on that they find it, I would take precausions like L&L did.

 

[dingo]

There were two stairs leading down. The note was found in the back stair. That was not an obvious choice. The R's could be going down the main stair never finding the note.

JBR's room was above the stairs, meaning it would be very likely that the parents would find that JBR was missing before the note was found. Looking for their missing child they could easily miss the note. If I were a kidnapper I would not count on that they find it, I would take precausions like L&L did.

The note being found on the kitchen counter would make more sense....how did the faction know Patsy used those stairs regulary

 

[Eagle1]

The note being found on the kitchen counter would make more sense....how did the faction know Patsy used those stairs regulary

If you were sitting looking at the floor plan from Schiller's book, Appendix A I believe it is, you'd see the circular stairway leads most directly to the middle of the parents' sleeping area. But I just checked the map of the 2nd floor and it looks like three stairways. The spiral one right next to JonBenet's room.

Since seeing the pictures of PR's rings worn backwards, so unusual, I'm not leaning as much toward intruders as before, but we have to admit all their pals were a trifle strange, and still keep an open mind. Yes, it's suspicious that the note was put where it was.

BTW, on AOL Welcome Page News this morning, there's an article about retirees, Lou Smit and two others, solving approximately 49 Colorado murders by a (Robert?) Browne, investigations not completely finished yet,
http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/volunteers-credited-in-color... Included Heather Church, found outdoors, scene first looked like a burglary (staging?). Browne wrote rambling, taunting letters, which they carefully answered trying to draw him out, and he began to confess one by one, after saying word to effect he wouldn't give up something for nothing.

I'm sure the three pro's would know if Browne was a Ramsey case suspect. He may not have always left the bodies outside, and the article doesn't mention exactly how they were killed or why. Probably not related.

 

[tumble]

Yes, it's suspicious that the note was put where it was.

Choosing this place for the note on the usual 'things to to up the stairs' spot is like a message from one R to the other.
This was BTW, one of the key points that made me choose JR for the "zonked" theory perp.

 

[BBB167893]

"The note being found on the kitchen counter would make more sense....how did the faction know Patsy used those stairs regulary"

Especially since that was one of her favorite places to leave stuff. And I don't believe in coincidences!

"Since seeing the pictures of PR's rings worn backwards, so unusual, I'm not leaning as much toward intruders as before,"

That I picked up on.

"but we have to admit all their pals were a trifle strange, and still keep an open mind. Yes, it's suspicious that the note was put where it was."

Damn straight! But yes, their friends were VERY eccentric, and since I've been here, I don't think I've said that they should be let off the hook either.

"I'm sure the three pro's would know if Browne was a Ramsey case suspect. He may not have always left the bodies outside, and the article doesn't mention exactly how they were killed or why. Probably not related."

I think he was already imprisoned by the time of the murder. I don't know, I didn't follow it. But you said it Eagle1: it was a TEAM effort, not some Sam Spade/Pat Robertson (Smit, in case you can't tell) going off on his own and to hell with everyone else like he did with this case.

 

[Camper]

"The note being found on the kitchen counter would make more sense....how did the faction know Patsy used those stairs regulary"

Especially since that was one of her favorite places to leave stuff. And I don't believe in coincidences!

"Since seeing the pictures of PR's rings worn backwards, so unusual, I'm not leaning as much toward intruders as before,"

That I picked up on.

"but we have to admit all their pals were a trifle strange, and still keep an open mind. Yes, it's suspicious that the note was put where it was."

Damn straight! But yes, their friends were VERY eccentric, and since I've been here, I don't think I've said that they should be let off the hook either.

"I'm sure the three pro's would know if Browne was a Ramsey case suspect. He may not have always left the bodies outside, and the article doesn't mention exactly how they were killed or why. Probably not related."

I think he was already imprisoned by the time of the murder. I don't know, I didn't follow it. But you said it Eagle1: it was a TEAM effort, not some Sam Spade/Pat Robertson (Smit, in case you can't tell) going off on his own and to hell with everyone else like he did with this case.

--->>>The link did not work for me. What did he (Browne) do for a living? Maybe he was in the check cutting branch (bookkeeping ?)of Access Graphics, cutting bonus checks? He would have lived in Boulder or near Boulder to work there.

Who within Access Graphics in a work area would or could have known the bonus amount? Did Browne have a girlfriend who worked there and might have had access to info on bonuses, who spilled the beans on the bonus amount? Girls from one department and another become friends with each other and discuss company business, and one might have had a loose hair boyfriend.

The rablingsome note, negates my thoughts above. WHY would a nut create a note like that and know inside info about the R's, and write so much like PR.

,

 

[BBB167893]

"The rablingsome note, negates my thoughts above. WHY would a nut create a note like that and know inside info about the R's, and write so much like PR."

A question I have yet to hear a clear answer to.

 

[dingo]

For all the effort the so called faction/intruder/ put into this kidnapping...why was so little ransom money asked for.
If I were an intruder/faction planing to do this much work for a ransom..I think Id want a bigger paydirt.
Now you,ve got me spitballing Dave

 

[BBB167893]

"If I were an intruder/faction planing to do this much work for a ransom..I think Id want a bigger paydirt."

Do you know how much money Hezbollah gets from Iran yearly, dingo? $100 million! Why ask the $118,000 from one man when you can use him to hold the WHOLE COMPANY up for millions, maybe more?

 

[Eagle1]

The AOL news link worked for me just now, but is a new day's news, probably today's. I forgot to look around to see if one could get that day's news or what day that was. (Okay, I was out a couple of days from having one of my bionic eyes injected to try to curb macula swelling, healing faster than I expected so back in business, at least for now)

Yeah, SD, that about how PR wore her rings sure was suspicious, but then we still have to remember there were clues about outsiders, the intruder in JonBenet's bed in Charlevoix, the Barnhills seeing a walker who resembled JAR coming to the house right after the Ramseys left to go to Pasta Jay's and the Whites. Okay, it's a deal, we're both thinking of conceding a little, but still no closer to the answer?

About the staging looking like an intruder to you and like the family to some of us, maybe we should just say it's staged to be confusing, could be interpreted either way, how's that?

Since there were these outsiders in strange circumstances right at this time, too-coincidental to be mere coincidence imho, all I can say about the rings would be that either PR was involved or they got some similar rings. If that sounds too far out, yesterday on the History channel they discussed Flight 800, and a small plane being shot out of the sky which was heading for the TWA flight, gov't reports not sounding like whole truth, and they said the CIA's business is deception. Maybe someone else remembers more detail about that. I think writing the official report was assigned to them. Reminds me of the Warren report. Then today they announced the arrests of 21 in England planning another mass murder, this close to the 5th anniversary of 9/11. It's next month.

Not saying necessarily anyone in that agency planned this to humble this family, but there's certainly other groups who're into deceptions, not necessarily foreign, and it appears all this was long-planned. Enough twists and turns to almost drive us nuts. Sounds like someone's trying to be a genius, testing whether he can fool us all. Could have been PR's actual rings made the marks, and the crescent was from the edge of a ring, or we might come up with any number of alternatives if we set our minds to it.

 

[BBB167893]

"Yeah, SD, that about how PR wore her rings sure was suspicious, but then we still have to remember there were clues about outsiders, the intruder in JonBenet's bed in Charlevoix, the Barnhills seeing a walker who resembled JAR coming to the house right after the Ramseys left to go to Pasta Jay's and the Whites. Okay, it's a deal, we're both thinking of conceding a little, but still no closer to the answer?"

You could be right.

"About the staging looking like an intruder to you and like the family to some of us, maybe we should just say it's staged to be confusing, could be interpreted either way, how's that?"

Well, you've just outlined the big problem in this case: a lot of the evidence is a kind of "is/isn't" proposition. But I'll play along with you for now.

"Since there were these outsiders in strange circumstances right at this time, too-coincidental to be mere coincidence imho, all I can say about the rings would be that either PR was involved or they got some similar rings. If that sounds too far out, yesterday on the History channel they discussed Flight 800, and a small plane being shot out of the sky which was heading for the TWA flight, gov't reports not sounding like whole truth, and they said the CIA's business is deception. Maybe someone else remembers more detail about that. I think writing the official report was assigned to them. Reminds me of the Warren report. Then today they announced the arrests of 21 in England planning another mass murder, this close to the 5th anniversary of 9/11. It's next month."

I know all that, Eagle1, but I'm at a loss to see how it relates to this case.

"Sounds like someone's trying to be a genius, testing whether he can fool us all."

No argument. I just think our would-be geniuses differ.

"Could have been PR's actual rings made the marks, and the crescent was from the edge of a ring, or we might come up with any number of alternatives if we set our minds to it."

You could be right again. One thing's sure: it was no stun gun.

 

[Eagle1]

"Sounds like someone's trying to be a genius, testing whether he can fool us all."

" No argument. I just think our would-be geniuses differ."

Right and if we ever learn the whole truth for sure, we'll have earned it, working so hard on trying to figure out this big obvious deception.

 

[Camper]

You two sleuthers carry on. Just sticking my head in to re re-tell a pet thought of mine.

1. Why would a family go to such lengths, write a bogus ransom note, tidy up the crime scene, pack away the college son's blankie with the semen on it, with the Dr. Seuss book, Nope twaren't college son Mr. B saw walking UP to the house on Christmas day, and develop Ramnesia AND hire an attorney for the college son who was in GEORGIA?

2. Wellll, how about if the son was drunk and doing his blankie tricks with our victim and accidentally killed her.

I do believe all of those items in 1. would apply if 2. is the truth also, in order to protect the son, and the family from the ensuing public shame.

I do believe the family would forgive the son because in reality 'alcohol' was the perpetrator. They might indeed forgive him, but they would never let him forget it, and would perhaps shun him, or keep him at a distance from the family.

This still leaves the option open of WHO struck the final head blow?
---

Anyone remember the date when Access Graphics removed JR from the company? I am still thinking about Eagle and Super Daves speculations too.

.

 

[Eagle1]

But what do you think about the extraneous people we hardly ever discuss, like in Charlevoix, Camper? I don't really know the origin of the story, unless maybe it was "B" who lives there and posts at another forum.)They could have been civilized about the model experiment, which thread I finally found here down at the bottom. That was a lot of work, good job. )

SD, we have to get past all our explaining, right? You have some really good posts at wherever I just came from, FFJ I think. It's been such a long day! And there I go again, but I promise to quit.

 

[BBB167893]

"Right and if we ever learn the whole truth for sure, we'll have earned it, working so hard on trying to figure out this big obvious deception."

You got that right.

"SD, we have to get past all our explaining, right?"

Maybe, if I knew what you meant by that!

"You have some really good posts at wherever I just came from, FFJ I think."

Not many know the Super One's secret identity! Those who do must not reveal it! LOL

"It's been such a long day! And there I go again, but I promise to quit."

What makes you say that?

 

[Eagle1]

I meant I promise to quit explaining every little thing, that I guess you're asking about just to make conversation, couldn't be that I sometimes use "hints" if I don't want to name some dangerous somebody or group, rather let somebody else say it if it gives anyone an idea, and if it doesn't, maybe it wasn't such a good idea anyway. My way of checking whether anyone else is thinking the same thing I am w/out actually committing.

So, this one last time, "SD made me do it." Heh heh.

 

[rashomon]

You two sleuthers carry on. Just sticking my head in to re re-tell a pet thought of mine.

1. Why would a family go to such lengths, write a bogus ransom note, tidy up the crime scene, pack away the college son's blankie with the semen on it, with the Dr. Seuss book, Nope twaren't college son Mr. B saw walking UP to the house on Christmas day, and develop Ramnesia AND hire an attorney for the college son who was in GEORGIA?

2. Wellll, how about if the son was drunk and doing his blankie tricks with our victim and accidentally killed her.

I do believe all of those items in 1. would apply if 2. is the truth also, in order to protect the son, and the family from the ensuing public shame.

I do believe the family would forgive the son because in reality 'alcohol' was the perpetrator. They might indeed forgive him, but they would never let him forget it, and would perhaps shun him, or keep him at a distance from the family.

I personally don't believe that someone like Patsy Ramsey would have covered up for and forgiven JAR who wasn't even her own flesh and blood.
I can't even imagine her covering up for her own son Burke and going on living with him if he had killed her precious possession: the daughter whom she saw as an extension of herself, and through whom she had lived vicariously in the past years.
And suppose John had killed her daughter, I believe Patsy would have killed him too, or have tried to kill him. No way would she (who obviously was a narcissist) have been able to live with him together for years afterward, covering for him to the point of letting the public name her as the prime suspect.
In short, jmpo, but the only person I can imagine a narcissist like Patsy Ramsey would ever have covered up for is herself.

This still leaves the option open of WHO struck the final head blow?

I believe that the head blow came first, and was struck by Patsy in a rage.

 

[BBB167893]

Okay, Eagle1, I get you.

rashomon, I'll go with that until something better comes along.

 

[LI_Mom]

See
Beth
This
Christmas

We know Patsy was in the habit of signing her correspondence with acronyms.

We know the Ramseys chose to use Christmas as JB's date of death on her tombstone (even though they admit she probably died the next day) they want to make sure there is a historic connection to this holiday.

DOI pg. 389

"I selected Dec. 25 because I didn't want the world to ever forget what it did to our daughter on the day of joy & peace, Christmas Day. I want people 50 years from now, 100 years from now, to look at that marker & say, "The world went mad on that Christmas Day, and someone brutally murdered a child during the peace of Christmas night."



Here's a pic of Beth's grave

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pis&GRid=3760&PIgrid=3760&PIcrid=36750&PIpi=1677745&


BELOVED DAUGHTER BEAUTIFUL
SISTER LOYAL FRIEND
GONE BEFORE US IN LIFE'S
JOURNEY NOW GUIDE US TO
ETERNAL REUNION




Here's a pic of JB's grave

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pis&GSln=ramsey&GSfn=jonbenet&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=2745&PIgrid=2745&PIcrid=36750&PIpi=953216&



LOVE PURITY AND JOY

A GIFT TO HER FAMILY
AND THE WORLD

HOME IN THE PLACE OF GOD





JB, at 6 years old, was a gift to the world?

Not even a mention that her family members loved her?




Btw, There's an amazing thread about the ransom note at "Forums For Justice."

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6404

 

[BBB167893]

"We know Patsy was in the habit of signing her correspondence with acronyms."

How many other people knew that then?

You'll find little mention of JB as a person from them, LI Mom.