The Toddler

Discussion in 'LISK Unidentified Victims' started by bessie, Apr 5, 2011.

  1. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    No sketch available
    Namus UP #9704
    https://identifyus.org/en/cases/9704

    Ocean Parkway
    Gilgo Beach
    Nassau County, NY

    4 April, 2011

    "The unidentified child, found wrapped in a blanket is between 16 and 32 months of age and is related to one of the victims found near Jones Beach in Nassau County [she is not related to the woman found within yards of her (Jane Doe #6)]"

    "The child, possibly the woman’s daughter was wearing a set of hoop earrings and a rope necklace. They are both believed to have been killed between four and five years ago." (LI Press)

    "...and a female sex worker and her toddler child, who was found wrapped in a blanket. Both mother and daughter had on inexpensive jewelry. Officials displayed the girl’s earrings and necklace in the hope that someone might recognize the items." (NY Post 2015)

    "While the other victims had clearly been murdered, Suffolk County officials said, the toddler’s body showed no sign of injury or trauma, and her death has not been classified as a homicide..."

    At the site where she was found, the tangled and thorny branches stretch so high and thick that they form a kind of impenetrable wall. There is neither surf nor sand nor the sound of waves. It is one of those forlorn places on the side of the road where bits of trash and car parts and license plates end up.

    The police cut a path into the brush and made a small clearing where the body was found: She appeared to have been laid on a patch of dirt about 50 steps from the edge of Ocean Parkway, at the foot of a thin tree, leafless and largely branchless." (NY Times)[HR][/HR]ME/C Case Number: 2011-1376
    Suffolk County, New York
    1 to 4 year old

    Est. post mortem interval - 1 year

    • Not recognizable - Near complete or complete skeleton
    • One 16" gold colored chain and two gold colored hoop earrings.

    Local Contact
    Suffolk County Medical Examiner's Office
    631-852-6551
    Case Mgr: Stephen Jacobs[HR][/HR]Namus UP #9704

    Newsday Map

    Shadowraith's Map


    grayhuze youtube video tour of the landscape

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. fieldnotes

    fieldnotes New Member

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    I've been in contact with NamUs regarding getting the unidentified mother victim into their database. And they have been very responsive and have been speaking with the medical examiner re: this issue. However at this point and time the detectives will not sign off on creating a profile. Apparently there must be something that they do not wish to present to the public. Your guess is as good as mine but at least it does not appear to be something that was an oversight or laziness on the part of SCPD.

    Why Natasha Jugo has not been entered into NamUs will probly be my next question. Again, I must say, really great people over there at NamUs.
     
  4. Fireweed

    Fireweed New Member

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    Anyone know of cultures that regularly put jewelry on their toddlers? I am asking because the I had never in my life seen jewelry on a baby until a friend of mine married a Cuban woman. That baby wore fine jewelry too, not trinkets from a gumball machine.

    I am not trying to stereotype or offend anyone or anything, I am merely trying to narrow down where this baby may have come from. I wonder if the cops in Suffolk County are aware that many people (like myself) would find it damn odd to see a baby in gold and diamond jewelry. I have really only seen it done commonly among the Hispanics that live in my town.
     
  5. Just K

    Just K New Member

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    Many Italians and Italian Americans still pierce the ears of female babies and toddlers.
     
  6. Fireweed

    Fireweed New Member

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    I think I read somewhere that police thought the baby was "not Caucasian." Due to the fact that no one seems to have reported this baby missing, I am leaning heavily towards mom and baby being recent immigrants.
     
  7. WI1987

    WI1987 New Member

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    I agree as well, this aspect has been brought up before on here and I am almost positive that the mother is an immigrant, most likely here illegally. Due to their status any relatives and/or friends may be afraid to come forward.

    Photos of the jewelry the baby was wearing should be distributed in Brentwood, Central Islip, North Bay Shore, Hempstead, Westbury, Farmingville, etc
     
  8. Danse_Macabre

    Danse_Macabre Registered User

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    Hi Rachel & Josh here, some of you may have read we are partnering with Tricia & Websleuths on a docu-series covering 5 unsolved serial killer cases. LISK is one of them and we would like to work with websleuthers in helping to identify the Jane, John, and Toddler Does connected to the case. We definitely understand there's been a lot of time and energy put into this already by websleuthers and the community, we're hoping to inject new energy into identifying. We will have a access to wide television audience who in additional can hopefully help.

    I'll be posting to the threads for the other identified, please don't be shy... contact us. We are looking for some lead websleuthers to work with us as well, please reach out. Already we've heard from a lot of you on LISK and other cases. It takes a village!

    Best,
    Rachel & Josh
     
  9. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think this mother/daughter pair should be looked at as possibles to Victims #7 and #9

    AMANDA AMGAD SALIB GARAS (Child) and SUZAN BOULES BESCKALES GERGES (Mother)

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    The presumption was that mother and daughter fled to Egypt. I wonder if anyone has ever spotted either of them in Egypt, or whether there are customs records or flight manifests to provide evidence that they actually did go to Egypt.

    While Suzan's necklace doesn't appear to be of identical design to the bracelets, it is similar in style (i.e, gold colored and large).

    The speculation that victims #7 and #9 might be Hispanic was based on to the jewelry. But a similar speculation could be made that they might be Middle Eastern.

    Bayonne New Jersey is about 80 miles from Manorville, where the child's remains were found. (It is unclear where and when the mother's remains were found).

    The child was estimated to have been there approximately one year when found in 2011. So a 2007 Date of Last Contact might be a little long. But I wouldn't rule them out based on that.

    Amanda's age is just about right in comparison to the estimated age of the child (victim #7).
     
  10. Houston Mom

    Houston Mom Active Member

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  11. takeitfromme412

    takeitfromme412 New Member

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    The jewelry alone leads me to believe this child was either Hispanic or middle eastern/Lebanese. It's common for their young daughters to have jewelry. Also, considering the victims that have been ID'd were workers in the sex industry makes me feel it is very likely the mother of the child was either an escort or street prostitute, who probably had few friends and estranged family, thus took the child in tow with her the night she met her demise.
     
  12. takeitfromme412

    takeitfromme412 New Member

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    Just had another thought. I posted this in the toddler's mother thread: That type of jewelry I have seen at flea markets as well as street vendors in NYC...... It's gold plated metal jewelry. Mom probably loved her lil girl very much and picked up jewelry she could afford to "spoil herself and babygirl" Maybe she even worked at a stand for a street vendor at some point? Just a thought.
     
  13. Selah84

    Selah84 New Member

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    One thing I find interesting about the description of Alexa Galdamez is that it states she has asthma which requires medication. It was stated there was no evidence of homicide in the case of the child. Is it possible that an abduction occurred, the child had an asthma attack, no medication was available so the child died?
    Just thought it could be why the child didn't appear to be a victim of homicide. Could be wrong though.

    Also, the quote above at the beginning of the thread states they were estimated to have been dead 4-5 years, though then it states estimated post-mortem interval of one year. I looked up post-mortem interval and it means time an individual has been deceased. Wouldn't this mean they were only dead approximately one year, and not 4-5? That is very confusing to me and makes determining their possible identities more difficult.
     
  14. mansker

    mansker New Member

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    Is it possible that the mother/child were members of a gypsy group? The Rom do have their daughters wear jewelry and usually have pierced the ears of the girls very early. Also, the gold of the jewelry would be something that would be pleasing to them. I know the thought is Hispanic or illegal, but not Caucasian can cover the Rom as well.
     
  15. takeitfromme412

    takeitfromme412 New Member

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    definitely a possibility!!!!
     
  16. Boomeroreo

    Boomeroreo New Member

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    I agree with you Fireweed. Something doesn't add up with any of these innocent people. But.. I was wondering if there is more than a serial killer out there, like a ritual killer.
     
  17. SCHMAE

    SCHMAE Well-Known Member

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    I like this idea but wouldn't others in their group notice they are missing? I think they keep very close tabs on each other and are far more family oriented than some and would know very quickly if someone and her baby were missing.
     
  18. JHurt2

    JHurt2 New Member

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    Is there any way to determine where the jewelry may have been purchased?
     
  19. Claireishere

    Claireishere Member

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    From what I know about gypsies is females especially a baby female do not go missing. While the males can be cheaters and wild the women are expected to stay at home and if a female wants to leave then the child or children stay behind. I would rule out gypsies plus the women are assumed to have worked in the sex trade too right?
     
  20. georgiaps

    georgiaps New Member

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    A few thoughts:
    Burlap plus access to a likely refrigerator of large size= florist? Sea food industry? Transporting sea food or flowers would also give access to large vehicle.
    Hunting grounds and disposal grounds are likely part of delivery route, but not home base. Is there a large hotel or restaurant that would cater large events near by?

    Two vics seem incidental - Asian male and baby. However, it could be possible that since profile describes a likely settled male that toddler and toddler mom could be related to killer? Perhaps his baby and girlfriend/wife? If foreign and his, maybe why not reported missing? Indian/middle eastern decent possible, too?

    Wrapped in blanket implies some feeling and remorse. Baby could have been accidently with mom when death occurred and child died perhaps as mom body was being transported? With no signs of foul play... hm. Would suffocation in a refrigerated truck have left signs on a nearly total skeleton?

    I hope these people are identified and this guy is stopped before he strikes again.



     
  21. StingRay_814

    StingRay_814 New Member

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    I have seen someone mention Sasha Davis and her daughter Selah but I don't think she's old enough to be the toddler because they said she went missing at 4 months. So this makes me think that Amanda Garsa and her mom may be the one but I think I posted on Jane Doe #3 that she was supposedly in Egypt so if they had the fathers DNA they could compare. Amanda went missing at 2 and a half. And she had pierced ears and she is not Caucasian.
     

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