Theories discussion: What could have happened to Haleigh? #3

[Patty G]

When I said not experience LE..I was referring to their work with murder and I was going by the demographics where murder and missing children is not a common occurence in that local.

The Sheriff's Department was not alone in this case as they also had the assistance of the FBI and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

 

[Busylady]

BBM

Do you have a link where the Cummings family praises LE? (I realize in the first few days they made comments that LE was doing a wonderful job, but anything more recent) I have only seen recent statements from MG stating she is pleased with LE investigation. TIA

It doesn't take brains to hide a body. Often times, it is dumb luck when people find one though.

I have given up on this LE. They did not press Misty hard. They did not press Ron hard either. You are left to figure out the reason. There lips are sealed too, for reasons they won't give. If LE would talk, maybe the crime could be solved. They are using the excuse they have 5,000 leads....almost 100% are phony.

In looking at the demographics of the area, murder isn't common there. The LE are not experienced. The fact that the Cummings family is very pleased with all the work of LE sends the wrong message. I would not be pleased at all, yet they praise them.....gotta make you wonder, doesn't it?

Some of the family are on first name basis with LE....well, they should be...but I guess I shouldn't go there. It doesn't take a mental giant to commit a murder or hide a body, but do you notice the less intellligent they are, the harder it is to convict them?

 

[chesterp]

The Sheriff's Department was not alone in this case as they also had the assistance of the FBI and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

Thank you for pointing this out..... Does anyone honestly feel LE does not give a damn about finding this precious child and bringing JUSTICE to ever the SICKO who did this? True they may not be experienced with murder cases and this is a small town and everyone DOES KNOW EACH OTHER, but the LE I have been with and spoken with are following every lead...

Haleigh needs to be found first..... before charges can be brought...is it an abduction or an accidental death or murder.........a huge cover-up, families playing games with each other.... These officers are focused on FINDING Haleigh 24/7.... People are lying through their teeth and one day the truth will be exposed to everyone and Justice for Haleigh will happen.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

The Sheriff's Department was not alone in this case as they also had the assistance of the FBI and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

I think the key word there is "assistance". The FBI and FDLE roles are defined by PCSO. Assistance in checking out of state leads falls into the FBI's lap and they also provide their lab in Quantico for testing if needed. FDLE's role is checking out the rest of the state and providing additional tools in the search/investigation. The lead role has been PCSO. They can ask for the additional help from the other agencies...but it doesn't mean they are fully utilizing their expertise nor are they required to include them. I can't forget there was a brand new sheriff in town and with that comes ego, imo. He wasn't going to let this case go to another agency, imo.

I had high hopes for the task force being formed and what information they could glean from this case. However, when the information isn't there because it wasn't gathered properly or for whatever reason...the task force is already at a disadvantage.

I do believe the hearts of Putnum County officers are in the right place, but their inexperience has cost them in the long run, imo. They had no choice except to follow the lead of the new sheriff.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

This crime was most likely very simple. It's the characters in this play that muddy up the waters and deflect resources.
____________________________________

Words that make you go "HUH, did he say that?"

1.."I will always believe my daughter's alive, till she is found."
2.."I would give my life to have my daughter's life back"
3.."She was the most well-mannered child I ever had"

The last one grabs me....I have never heard a grieving parent discuss their child manners. It must be a very big part of his child raising....odd and something he insists on.

Considering he has no manners and is uncouth with his choice of words, it strikes me as unusual that he treasures manners in his child......frankly it worries me.

It doesn't strike me as being odd at all for a parent to be bringing up positive points about a missing child. I have heard parents of missing children say many times how good, obedient, and thoughtful their children were...and I use the word on purpose. Many fluctuate between past and present tense when talking about their missing children.

I believe it has to do with recognizing and starting to face their worst fear the child could be dead. While some will never speak of them in the past tense due to their intense belief it will somehow make them still alive if they do not acknowledge it...others are more realistic. They have been told the stats by LE and know what they are up against. They have seen other cases.

Also, some speak of them in terms of "when they were with them last" which also puts it into past tense.

We can't forget that Caylee's memorial service was being held that very day and it had to weigh heavy on Ronald's mind knowing how her case turned out. It could be why he said those things in that way. It doesn't convict him because he mentioned she could be dead. She sure could be and it is the reality of the situation...it doesn't mean he is responsible.

 

[watchinginky]

This crime was most likely very simple. It's the characters in this play that muddy up the waters and deflect resources.
____________________________________

Words that make you go "HUH, did he say that?"

1.."I will always believe my daughter's alive, till she is found."
2.."I would give my life to have my daughter's life back"
3.."She was the most well-mannered child I ever had"

The last one grabs me....I have never heard a grieving parent discuss their child manners. It must be a very big part of his child raising....odd and something he insists on.

Considering he has no manners and is uncouth with his choice of words, it strikes me as unusual that he treasures manners in his child......frankly it worries me.

BBM

What about him using the past tense in that last sentence. Speaks volumes. JMO

 

[lonetraveler]

It doesn't take brains to hide a body. Often times, it is dumb luck when people find one though.

I have given up on this LE. They did not press Misty hard. They did not press Ron hard either. You are left to figure out the reason. There lips are sealed too, for reasons they won't give. If LE would talk, maybe the crime could be solved. They are using the excuse they have 5,000 leads....almost 100% are phony.

In looking at the demographics of the area, murder isn't common there. The LE are not experienced. The fact that the Cummings family is very pleased with all the work of LE sends the wrong message. I would not be pleased at all, yet they praise them.....gotta make you wonder, doesn't it?

Some of the family are on first name basis with LE....well, they should be...but I guess I shouldn't go there. It doesn't take a mental giant to commit a murder or hide a body, but do you notice the less intellligent they are, the harder it is to convict them?

-----------
You are so right on your points. This has been such shoddy LE work on this case. There was so much contamination of any evidence that could have been gathered. If Haleigh is ever found it will be just by accident. I know what you mean about the Cummings family being pleased with such deplorable police work. Maybe they are pleased for another reason. I get what you mean about being on first name basis :laugh:

 

[lonetraveler]

I think the key word there is "assistance". The FBI and FDLE roles are defined by PCSO. Assistance in checking out of state leads falls into the FBI's lap and they also provide their lab in Quantico for testing if needed. FDLE's role is checking out the rest of the state and providing additional tools in the search/investigation. The lead role has been PCSO. They can ask for the additional help from the other agencies...but it doesn't mean they are fully utilizing their expertise nor are they required to include them. I can't forget there was a brand new sheriff in town and with that comes ego, imo. He wasn't going to let this case go to another agency, imo.
I had high hopes for the task force being formed and what information they could glean from this case. However, when the information isn't there because it wasn't gathered properly or for whatever reason...the task force is already at a disadvantage.

I do believe the hearts of Putnum County officers are in the right place, but their inexperience has cost them in the long run, imo. They had no choice except to follow the lead of the new sheriff.

--------------
BBM: IMO, ego had a lot to do with Tim Miller leaving so abruptly.

 

[atherella]

This crime was most likely very simple. It's the characters in this play that muddy up the waters and deflect resources.
____________________________________

Words that make you go "HUH, did he say that?"

1.."I will always believe my daughter's alive, till she is found."
2.."I would give my life to have my daughter's life back"
3.."She was the most well-mannered child I ever had"

The last one grabs me....I have never heard a grieving parent discuss their child manners. It must be a very big part of his child raising....odd and something he insists on.

Considering he has no manners and is uncouth with his choice of words, it strikes me as unusual that he treasures manners in his child......frankly it worries me.

BBM

Do you have the link to where Ron made the comment I bolded?

I'm almost positive what he actually stated was:

"that she is the most well mannered child I ever had."

Which would make it present tense.

However, I can't remember where I heard the comment, so I wanted to double check.

In any event, I have heard many parents of missing children refer to their kids in a mix of past and present tense. I don't find that strange, or a sign of "guilt". I can't personally imagine the pain, terror and confusion of having a missing child.

 

[Whisperer]

It is on the first day of the incident when he was crying outside and his Mother was beside him...IIRC. I wasn't referencing the past tense, that wasn't a problem for me. If it is incorrect, I will gladly correct it.

 

[TxLady2]

I think the key word there is "assistance". The FBI and FDLE roles are defined by PCSO. Assistance in checking out of state leads falls into the FBI's lap and they also provide their lab in Quantico for testing if needed. FDLE's role is checking out the rest of the state and providing additional tools in the search/investigation. The lead role has been PCSO. They can ask for the additional help from the other agencies...but it doesn't mean they are fully utilizing their expertise nor are they required to include them. I can't forget there was a brand new sheriff in town and with that comes ego, imo. He wasn't going to let this case go to another agency, imo.

I had high hopes for the task force being formed and what information they could glean from this case. However, when the information isn't there because it wasn't gathered properly or for whatever reason...the task force is already at a disadvantage.

I do believe the hearts of Putnum County officers are in the right place, but their inexperience has cost them in the long run, imo. They had no choice except to follow the lead of the new sheriff.

I think you may be right, however I thought FBI always got involved in a missing child case. I don't think the SD has much choice, or at least that's the way I understand it to be around here. I certainly hope this sheriff does not have such an inflated ego that he thinks his dept. is more capable of handling such a huge case than the FBI. If that's true, then I'm afraid Haleigh will never be found, unless they enlist the help of every agency that is available to help. This is not about the pride of a new sheriff in town... this is about a little girl who needs to be found.

 

[texasmommy39]

Misty has cosistantly stated she and the children where asleep after 10:30 pm.
The timeline from 10:30pm - 3:27am ( 4hrs and 57 min.) is the time frame of the abduction. Do we know for sure who TN called that early morning? I heard it was Marie and Marie is the one who called Crystal. The phone call to Johnny S after 5am in the morning was made by who? (crystal or Marie)
Out of all this confussion the facts still remain that this mother, uncle and paternal grandparents did not act with urgancy and concern the moment they recieved the first call at 3:45 am. The fact that this Mother and Grandmother did not arrive in Satsuma till late moring is shocking under the circumstances.

 

[Katana]

Misty has cosistantly stated she and the children where asleep after 10:30 pm.
The timeline from 10:30pm - 3:27am ( 4hrs and 57 min.) is the time frame of the abduction. Do we know for sure who TN called that early morning? I heard it was Marie and Marie is the one who called Crystal. The phone call to Johnny S after 5am in the morning was made by who? (crystal or Marie)
Out of all this confussion the facts still remain that this mother, uncle and paternal grandparents did not act with urgancy and concern the moment they recieved the first call at 3:45 am. The fact that this Mother and Grandmother did not arrive in Satsuma till late moring is shocking under the circumstances.

This is the timeline if you believe Misty's account of what happened which I don't. I would think LE is no longer focusing on her inconsistent statements. Haleigh was last seen with Ron picking her up from the bus stop according to several neighbors. That is where the timeline begins.

 

[texasmommy39]

This is the timeline if you believe Misty's account of what happened which I don't. I would think LE is no longer focusing on her inconsistent statements. Haleigh was last seen with Ron picking her up from the bus stop according to several neighbors. That is where the timeline begins.

LOL I guess your right because we need to start back at the begining and hash the facts out with a POI now that we know what the lies where and who is POI or just a victim under the rumor bus..

 

[texasmommy39]

This is the timeline if you believe Misty's account of what happened which I don't. I would think LE is no longer focusing on her inconsistent statements. Haleigh was last seen with Ron picking her up from the bus stop according to several neighbors. That is where the timeline begins.

We must not forget the A/C repair man that was there that eavening. The timeline you mention would be revised at this point, I believe.

 

[Whisperer]

Only if the AC man saw Haleigh.

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

We must not forget the A/C repair man that was there that eavening. The timeline you mention would be revised at this point, I believe.

I wouldn't think so, unless you have information that hasn't been discussed on the AC Man Thread.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86900&page=2 Post #39

If you do have confimation of what the AC man saw, and when he saw it, wouild you please post the same ? TIA

 

[elle1919]

I am 100% positive that LE has the phone records of each and every player in this case. Landlines and Cell phones. Since we were blessed with the silly cell phone age, they have been one of the first tools that police and other investigators use in a missing person case. Cell phones in particular will give pings that can place the cell phone within a very small radius of the tower it bounces off of.

Having just told you all what I am also 100% sure you already knew, let us gander a guess that since we have no other POI's, and since police have most likely looked at cell records of Ronald and Misty and Crystal and grandmommy's, perhaps each individuals records supported the facts that they gave of that night and that is why they have no leads and suspect no wrongdoing on a family members behalf. I would guess they even managed a look at Chad's phone records (if he had one) and also couldn't place him in the vicinity of Haleigh. I just really believe that whoever took Haleigh, while not a complete stranger, was certainly not family because if that was the fact don't you think LE would have had a clue from the beginning of this mess?

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

I am 100% positive that LE has the phone records of each and every player in this case. Landlines and Cell phones. Since we were blessed with the silly cell phone age, they have been one of the first tools that police and other investigators use in a missing person case. Cell phones in particular will give pings that can place the cell phone within a very small radius of the tower it bounces off of.

Having just told you all what I am also 100% sure you already knew, let us gander a guess that since we have no other POI's, and since police have most likely looked at cell records of Ronald and Misty and Crystal and grandmommy's, perhaps each individuals records supported the facts that they gave of that night and that is why they have no leads and suspect no wrongdoing on a family members behalf. I would guess they even managed a look at Chad's phone records (if he had one) and also couldn't place him in the vicinity of Haleigh. I just really believe that whoever took Haleigh, while not a complete stranger, was certainly not family because if that was the fact don't you think LE would have had a clue from the beginning of this mess?

Do I think cell phone records will be valuable evidence ? Yes

Do I think LE has "had a clue from the beginning of the mess" ? Yes

Do I think they have enough to get a conviction ? Not sure.

Does the lack of an arrest, at this point, indicate "no wrong doing" on the part of anyone ? Nope

Ping records tell us that a cell phone was at a particular location, at a particular time, not that the cell phone owner was there. Moreover, unless LE has a supoena in place prior to the calls being made, the content of cell phone calls is not recorded, TMK.

 

[texasmommy39]

This is MOO
LE has stated they are confident the A/C repair man was not involved and that it was confirmed that he was there at 5pm that night. It would be a different investigation from the begining if the A/c repair man had not seen HaLeigh and confirmed that to police. Why would we want to assume that the A/C repair man did not see HaLeigh?
Would LE be so tight lipped the very first 48 hrs after the 911 call and not mention the fact that the A/C man did not see HaLeigh? The timeline would then be moved back to when HaLeigh was last seen getting off the bus.
IMO the facts are being muddied so the truth can not be revealed.

IMO no one knows at this time who, why, and where is HaLeigh and it could very well stay that way if the facts continue to be dismissed.
The facts that have been revealed and then continued to be disregarded are:
Ron's PDM work shift is 4:30pm-3:00am---LE state he worked his shift and they are satisfied with his alibi. This means HE IS NOT A SUSPECT. IMO
This paticular fact is hard for many to except and move on. IMO it is a point that is not going to change when all is said and done. Ron was at work.

The A/C repair man was at the Cummings MH at 5pm on the night of 2/09/09. LE has stated they are confident he was not involved with the abduction. This has been debated because LE has not clarrified that the A/C repair man did see HaLeigh, but, will argue that if HaLeigh had not been seen by the A/C repair man that evening this investigation WOULD be different. The Fact that LE states the last seen time was 7pm by GGS is an indicator that LE believes the A/C repair man did see HaLeigh.
After 5 months these two facts are essential because they clear Ron and enables LE to narrow the timeline. The fact they (LE) have not believed Misty is apparent and yet they have not broke her to confess. She still maintains she was asleep in that MH that night and she did not do anything to harm HaLeigh. No one has came forward after 5 months to say any different either. IMO it would of been the break that KP would of wanted and looked very hard for but could not find.
IMO the only reason we know so much about the bad and ugly about Ron and Misty is because of the tatics of one attorney. We do not have near enough on any other family or friend player that sheds any light on anyone elses alibis or timelines. This IMO is why we are stuck and can not go forward, because, we do not have enough information on all the players. IMO It will not be possiable to solve this paticular case as an armchair sleuth on any forum because of the corruption on the internet and the internet obstructions that continues to surface. Why would someone (many) persuede others into beleiving false facts as truths and then argue those ficticious points to the degree of disruption and to instigate side taking in a child abduction case?
In less than 15 days it will be 6 months since HaLeigh was stolen from her bed and within 22 days it will be HaLeighs 6th Birthday. I want very much for her to be home before Aug. 18th her B-day.