Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[Lanie]

Ok, enough is enough. I can not understand anyone trying to give KC the benefit of the doubt when it comes to murdering her child. I do not understand, with everything we know about this vicious, lying, manipulative thief why anyone would even think that Caylee's death was a tragic accident that KC was too afraid to report. Do her words convince you of this? What about her actions? Just what is it that makes anyone think that this was anything other than a cold blooded murder?

Anyone who thinks this was an accident is in the same state of denial as the A family, but without any basis for it such as parental love for KC or the incomprehensible thought that one's daughter could kill her own child without a shred of guilt or remorse.

The "accidental overdose of chloroform" is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever heard of as an excuse for this child's death. Change "chloroform"to "gasoline" and ask yourself if it still could be an accident.

"Accidental death by being in a hot trunk" is again NOT an accident. It is ridiculous to think that ANYONE would not know that locking someone in a trunk in the hot Florida summer temperatures will cause death.

There is not a scintilla of evidence to suggest that Caylee's death was an accident and to propose that it was only discounts Caylee's value as a human being while elevating KC to victim status instead of the cold, heartless murderer that she is.

Oh sure everyone has an opinion but not all opinions are valid, especially those which dismiss the obvious in favor of what is "hoped" to have happened. No one wants to imagine little Caylee being murdered but guess what - that is what happened to her and her mother was her killer.

Thank you for saying what I have wanted to say for some time. Chloroform is an illegal substance, and Casey had no right giving it to anyone, overdose or not. Putting your baby in a trunk would at best be so no one knows you left your baby in the car. It's not an accident when you know what you are doing is wrong.
Lanie

 

[MarleneM]

Ok, enough is enough. I can not understand anyone trying to give KC the benefit of the doubt when it comes to murdering her child. I do not understand, with everything we know about this vicious, lying, manipulative thief why anyone would even think that Caylee's death was a tragic accident that KC was too afraid to report. Do her words convince you of this? What about her actions? Just what is it that makes anyone think that this was anything other than a cold blooded murder?

Anyone who thinks this was an accident is in the same state of denial as the A family, but without any basis for it such as parental love for KC or the incomprehensible thought that one's daughter could kill her own child without a shred of guilt or remorse.

The "accidental overdose of chloroform" is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever heard of as an excuse for this child's death. Change "chloroform"to "gasoline" and ask yourself if it still could be an accident.

"Accidental death by being in a hot trunk" is again NOT an accident. It is ridiculous to think that ANYONE would not know that locking someone in a trunk in the hot Florida summer temperatures will cause death.

There is not a scintilla of evidence to suggest that Caylee's death was an accident and to propose that it was only discounts Caylee's value as a human being while elevating KC to victim status instead of the cold, heartless murderer that she is.

Oh sure everyone has an opinion but not all opinions are valid, especially those which dismiss the obvious in favor of what is "hoped" to have happened. No one wants to imagine little Caylee being murdered but guess what - that is what happened to her and her mother was her killer.

I haven't had much of anything to post since they found little Caylee for reasons you've listed here, but I do want to say thank you for summarizing my frustrations and fears as we approach trial.

31 days people. Caylee wasn't even 3. Not one person in her tiny life did anything to verify her welfare for 31 days after being left alone with a jobless, homeless, lying thief of a mother. There is no reasonable reason for little Caylee to have been duct taped and left to rot in her "mother's" trunk. There is no reasonable reason for her to have been dumped like yesterday's trash in woods where her "mother" used to hang out in her youth. There is no reasonable reason why Caylee's "mother" would waste time lying to the police doing their best to find her after so much time had elapsed.

I can't bear to think of KC getting anything less than life in prison for what she did to Caylee. To hear all of the "what-if's" being being thrown about while common sense is being more and more discounted, I can't even follow along anymore. I'd rather keep my faith that the right jurors will be selected and justice will be served up to KC.

Caylee gave more to the world than it gave back. I just want to see right done for her for once.

 

[JWG]

Ok, enough is enough. I can not understand anyone trying to give KC the benefit of the doubt when it comes to murdering her child. I do not understand, with everything we know about this vicious, lying, manipulative thief why anyone would even think that Caylee's death was a tragic accident that KC was too afraid to report. Do her words convince you of this? What about her actions? Just what is it that makes anyone think that this was anything other than a cold blooded murder?

Anyone who thinks this was an accident is in the same state of denial as the A family, but without any basis for it such as parental love for KC or the incomprehensible thought that one's daughter could kill her own child without a shred of guilt or remorse.

The "accidental overdose of chloroform" is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever heard of as an excuse for this child's death. Change "chloroform"to "gasoline" and ask yourself if it still could be an accident.

"Accidental death by being in a hot trunk" is again NOT an accident. It is ridiculous to think that ANYONE would not know that locking someone in a trunk in the hot Florida summer temperatures will cause death.

There is not a scintilla of evidence to suggest that Caylee's death was an accident and to propose that it was only discounts Caylee's value as a human being while elevating KC to victim status instead of the cold, heartless murderer that she is.

Oh sure everyone has an opinion but not all opinions are valid, especially those which dismiss the obvious in favor of what is "hoped" to have happened. No one wants to imagine little Caylee being murdered but guess what - that is what happened to her and her mother was her killer.

When I began studying the information in this case (late October) I had assumed that what was being reported was indeed correct and iron-clad, and that Casey was a cold-blooded murderer and should be given the death penalty. I would happily stand in the front of the line to be chosen for switch-pulling duty.

However, after studying the available information released by LE, I am no longer confident that is the case. Accidental death followed by a horrific cover-up seems very plausible to me based on that information.

I do not arrive at this conclusion happily because I am not one to give Casey "the benefit of the doubt." I am hoping that her actions post-Caylee's death carry enough penalties to keep her behind bars for a very, very long time, if not for the rest of her life.

Rather than go into all of the details as to what I think happened and why - it would be too much for a single post - I suggest that if there are one or more observations I have made that you disagree with, tell me what they are and why. Ideally the discussion can be had based on the available evidence.

I do hold out hope that additional evidence exists that has not been released that proves she murdered her daughter and it was pre-meditated. But right now I cannot draw that conclusion.

 

[reeseeva]

:rant::rant::rant::slap::slap:

Ok, enough is enough. I can not understand anyone trying to give KC the benefit of the doubt when it comes to murdering her child. I do not understand, with everything we know about this vicious, lying, manipulative thief why anyone would even think that Caylee's death was a tragic accident that KC was too afraid to report. Do her words convince you of this? What about her actions? Just what is it that makes anyone think that this was anything other than a cold blooded murder?

Anyone who thinks this was an accident is in the same state of denial as the A family, but without any basis for it such as parental love for KC or the incomprehensible thought that one's daughter could kill her own child without a shred of guilt or remorse.

The "accidental overdose of chloroform" is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever heard of as an excuse for this child's death. Change "chloroform"to "gasoline" and ask yourself if it still could be an accident.

"Accidental death by being in a hot trunk" is again NOT an accident. It is ridiculous to think that ANYONE would not know that locking someone in a trunk in the hot Florida summer temperatures will cause death.

There is not a scintilla of evidence to suggest that Caylee's death was an accident and to propose that it was only discounts Caylee's value as a human being while elevating KC to victim status instead of the cold, heartless murderer that she is.

Oh sure everyone has an opinion but not all opinions are valid, especially those which dismiss the obvious in favor of what is "hoped" to have happened. No one wants to imagine little Caylee being murdered but guess what - that is what happened to her and her mother was her killer.

:rant::rant: OUCH!! Others have alternate OPINIONS suggesting her death was indeed an accident. I for 1 feel she has herself convinced SHE did nothing wrong to her child because it WAS an accident.

Everyone is ENTITLED to their own opinions & to them they are VALID! Maybe you should calmly re-visit JWG's post on his OPINION of what happened, which to me seems the most logical.

 

[JWG]

IMO its likely the flurry of calls from KC was to see if the coast was clear at parents home. whether to know how much time she had before they came home to discover the body, or just to remove more personal stuff without having another confrontation with them. making the quick calls would get her a location from them. I doubt they were calls for help. she could have dialed 911 for help.

Since she spent all that evening with the new boyfriend, movie rental, sleep over etc. I think she either intentionally or accidentally OD's Caylee for too many hours and the combination of drugs and heat is too much. sometime afternoon or evening of the 16th is likely when little Caylee passed. I lean towards S Smith motivation in wanting her new boyfriend more than an accident though with her arrogance and thinking she had all under control, an accidental overdose would be likely. Sure seems too much of a cooincidence with the prior computer searches for missing kids, neck breaking etc. She was at least thinking of ways to get rid of her, before the "accident"

In the past month as I have considered what happened on the 16th, I have more or less also come to the conclusion that the calls to GA and CA were to gauge how much time she had to "get out of Dodge." Following discovery of Caylee having accidentally drowned in the swimming pool.

 

[norr]

Ok, enough is enough. I can not understand anyone trying to give KC the benefit of the doubt when it comes to murdering her child. I do not understand, with everything we know about this vicious, lying, manipulative thief why anyone would even think that Caylee's death was a tragic accident that KC was too afraid to report. Do her words convince you of this? What about her actions? Just what is it that makes anyone think that this was anything other than a cold blooded murder?

Anyone who thinks this was an accident is in the same state of denial as the A family, but without any basis for it such as parental love for KC or the incomprehensible thought that one's daughter could kill her own child without a shred of guilt or remorse.

The "accidental overdose of chloroform" is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever heard of as an excuse for this child's death. Change "chloroform"to "gasoline" and ask yourself if it still could be an accident.

"Accidental death by being in a hot trunk" is again NOT an accident. It is ridiculous to think that ANYONE would not know that locking someone in a trunk in the hot Florida summer temperatures will cause death.

There is not a scintilla of evidence to suggest that Caylee's death was an accident and to propose that it was only discounts Caylee's value as a human being while elevating KC to victim status instead of the cold, heartless murderer that she is.

Oh sure everyone has an opinion but not all opinions are valid, especially those which dismiss the obvious in favor of what is "hoped" to have happened. No one wants to imagine little Caylee being murdered but guess what - that is what happened to her and her mother was her killer.

Oh no!!! The valid opinion police!!! :saythat:

I like my own opinions and will stick with them. Everyone is doing their best to comprehend all this I'm sure. It certainly is quite a bit too. :couch:

 

[SpottedCat]

I think Caylee was killed, not by accident, on the night/morning of June 15/16. Placed in trunk in the first bag. After two days, fluids leaked from the bag and one the trunk carpet. Casey drives to her parents, backs into garage to clean the mess. She puts poor caylee in the backyard to put her in another bag and duct tapes it shut. She cleans the carpet from the trunk. I'm not sure if the carpet piece is removable but I envision her taking it out and hosing it off in the grass. She uses the shpvel for something, possibly to lift Caylee from the trunk and to the grass. Casey seems too prissy to get too close to a dead body. This all would explain the hits in the backyard. She puts Caylee back in the trunk after cleaning and putting the second bag on and doesn't wait much longer after this to dump her body in the woods.

 

[IRule254]

I need to look at the ping map, but I have a theory that it was an accidental death ..but on purpose. Perhaps Casey wanted Caylee to drown in the pool but couldn't stand to actually drown her (or thought it would yield to much evidence later on??) So she leaves Caylee in the pool and walks or drives away for a while. If she did, indeed, drown in that pool, I believe Casey knew it and intended it that way.

I don't know how much evidence any carpet taken from the house will make a difference. I have potty trained two young children and both have had accidents on the carpet. "That" type of stain could easily be explained away.

I don't and won't ever stand by an accidental death. Even if she did panic, her actions showed none of the normal human emotions involved in that scenario. Witnesses say that there were no emotional swings and the video evidence certainley suggests that she was fine and dandy.

 

[reeseeva]

In the past month as I have considered what happened on the 16th, I have more or less also come to the conclusion that the calls to GA and CA were to gauge how much time she had to "get out of Dodge." Following discovery of Caylee having accidentally drowned in the swimming pool.

:clap::clap:JWG I truly feel that there was NO overdosing or premeditation. Following the supposed big fight with her mother & now faced with this untimely accident to the baby, I can see her thinking "How can this be happening to ME", she interprets everything in how it relates to HER. I feel, like you, that she is GUILTY of her actions in the aftermath of this horrific cover-up of this poor child.

 

[publius]

When I began studying the information in this case (late October) I had assumed that what was being reported was indeed correct and iron-clad, and that Casey was a cold-blooded murderer and should be given the death penalty. I would happily stand in the front of the line to be chosen for switch-pulling duty.

However, after studying the available information released by LE, I am no longer confident that is the case. Accidental death followed by a horrific cover-up seems very plausible to me based on that information.

Here's the problem, LE has access to far more evidence than you or me and they don't seem to think it was an 'accident'. Why is this? What piece of evidence do you have that they are missing or misreading? Or, are they just out to 'get' KC? Why would a grand jury indict her for murder if this was all a tragic accident?

I don't claim to know one way or another. Some things I've seem to indicate an accident, others seem to indicate a murder. I try to look at each piece of evidence on it's own. I'm not going to form a 'theory' and then force each piece of evidence to fit my theory...

 

[cinny2227]

In the past month as I have considered what happened on the 16th, I have more or less also come to the conclusion that the calls to GA and CA were to gauge how much time she had to "get out of Dodge." Following discovery of Caylee having accidentally drowned in the swimming pool.

I agree with you one hundred percent. Is it murder if you discover your child floating in the swimming pool and fail to get her help?

 

[minazoe]

When I began studying the information in this case (late October) I had assumed that what was being reported was indeed correct and iron-clad, and that Casey was a cold-blooded murderer and should be given the death penalty. I would happily stand in the front of the line to be chosen for switch-pulling duty.

However, after studying the available information released by LE, I am no longer confident that is the case. Accidental death followed by a horrific cover-up seems very plausible to me based on that information.

I do not arrive at this conclusion happily because I am not one to give Casey "the benefit of the doubt." I am hoping that her actions post-Caylee's death carry enough penalties to keep her behind bars for a very, very long time, if not for the rest of her life.

Rather than go into all of the details as to what I think happened and why - it would be too much for a single post - I suggest that if there are one or more observations I have made that you disagree with, tell me what they are and why. Ideally the discussion can be had based on the available evidence.

I do hold out hope that additional evidence exists that has not been released that proves she murdered her daughter and it was pre-meditated. But right now I cannot draw that conclusion.

ok, I am sorry but no way would selfish narcisstic Casey sit in Jail all this time without crying foul, no way would she not call 911 and have a potential murder charge on her. No way, she is Queen Teflon, nothing sticks.

the only other possibility in this case is that she is sitting in jail to protect someone, sometimes a very young woman will martyr herself for love. I can only see this happening to protect a family member or a boyfriend, and this would be a very bizarre turn indeed.

My feeling is she knows the murder can be tied to her and that they will find her prints, even if she has denied every thing to JB, she has known all along that if Caseys body was found it would all point to her...no, an acceptable time frame to call this an accident/cover-up has long passed.

spiteful just says it all.:boohoo:

 

[txsvicki]

I don't believe it was an accident and that the prosecutors will be able to prove it. The timeline and behavior does not fit in with an accident and Casey will never admit to anything. I think Caylee died in that trunk and was quickly taken from the home already unconscious from drugging or chloroform. Caylee could have passed on in the trunk where her body purged fluids. Casey may have chickened out and didn't get back to her to enclose the body in something and prevent hair with death bands from falling out, but that doesn't mean it was an accident. The inhalant, death, and other searches back in May also prove that Casey was looking at killing someone and making it seem like she was also attacked, which is the story she finally went with. Attacked in the park and Caylee ending up dead.

 

[thelmadawg]

I think Caylee was killed, not by accident, on the night/morning of June 15/16. Placed in trunk in the first bag. After two days, fluids leaked from the bag and one the trunk carpet. Casey drives to her parents, backs into garage to clean the mess. She puts poor caylee in the backyard to put her in another bag and duct tapes it shut. She cleans the carpet from the trunk. I'm not sure if the carpet piece is removable but I envision her taking it out and hosing it off in the grass. She uses the shpvel for something, possibly to lift Caylee from the trunk and to the grass. Casey seems too prissy to get too close to a dead body. This all would explain the hits in the backyard. She puts Caylee back in the trunk after cleaning and putting the second bag on and doesn't wait much longer after this to dump her body in the woods.

Spotted Cat, I think you are very close on this. The only thing is that I don't see KC removing Klee from the trunk when it would be much easier to accomplish her task from the garage (cleaning, double bag, etc.)

I'm thinking it happened the afternoon of the 16th, by whatever means, possibly drowning with duct tape applied for obvious reasons. My hunch is that originally she was going to claim some horrible accident and get CA or GA to come post haste. When she couldn't get them, she had to abandon that theory and put the body in a bag in the trunk.

Then, couple of days later, as you suggest, leakage, odor or both begin to take place and the second bag, cleaning takes place when she backs into the garage and borrows the shovel.

I've been wondering if cadaver dogs can detect scent of a very new death and found the below -- suggesting that Klee could have been placed on the ground immediately after death, and the dogs could have still detected it.

Article by Dr Rosemary Claire Taylor MA MB BChir (Cantab)
http://dogsdontlie.com/main/2008/12/cadaver-dogs-how-reliable-are-they-at-detecting-death/

Carpet squares were used as an odor transporting media after they had been contaminated with the scent of two recently deceased bodies (bodies are all less than 3 hours old). The contamination occurred for 2 min as well as 10 min without any direct contact between the carpet and the corpse. Comparative searches by the dogs were performed over a time period of 65 days (10 min contamination) and 35 days (2 min contamination).
The results of this study indicate that the well-trained cadaver dog is an outstanding tool for crime scene investigation displaying excellent sensitivity (75-100), specificity (91-100), and having a positive predictive value (90-100), negative predictive value (90-100) as well as accuracy (92-100).

Now this is gross, and I apologize, but apparently a body encased in a bag, say, can actually burst from the gaseous build-up of decomp.

Consequently, escaping gases from inside the body often create a uniquely repulsive odor even before any external signs of decomposition are present. Moving the body to examine it or to remove it from a scene only increases the amount of the gas and smell

Another snip, different article:
A simple test with a dead dog proved this idea (plastic bag) impractical: gas pressure caused the bag to burst.

So, although KC thought her second attempt would work, it probably only made the situation worse, and a few days later -- perhaps when she called Tony from Chikasaw Road, she had abandoned Caylee where she was later found. Later she had to abandon the car as well at Amscott.

The following is a snip from another site referencing his testimony:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2810979/Casey-Anthony-Documents-Released-Nov-26-001 (page 46)
He talks about the first time Casey ran out of gas, JUNE 23RD!!! He came to help her. Interestingly, he said when he arrived she was walking south on Chickasaw Trail. Now, if you look at a map of the area…that’s not too far from home!
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...d=110010345750475869289.00045dca812f5384e1a18
So he drives her to the Anthony home, makes HIM cut the lock on the shed and grab the gas cans, only to insist that SHE puts the gas into the car when they get back to it.

Sorry this is so long-winded, but I think we're getting close to the truth. Poor little Klee! It's really unfathomable.

 

[ibyoungr]

I don't think that KC could have been routinely leaving Caylee in the trunk. It gets very hot here especially in June and July and that baby would have fried in that trunk in late afternoons early evenings.

:clap::clap::clap:
ITA I also think we would not have seen the happy, healthy little girl the DAY BEFORE in the video from the nursing home. If Caylee was ROUTINELY drugged we would see a little girl that was cranky, whiny and probably with bags under her eyes. For those who believe she was ROUTINELY DRUGGED where on earth is any of this evidence?

 

[ibyoungr]

Thanks Kiki.. ITA

I just do not think that there is more to the theory than a very immature 22 yo mom got busy on the net and had a toddler than needed attention. Either Caylee drowned or she was suffocated by Casey ( round pillow on bed taken by police???) I just do not buy the routine drugging as a babysitter theory. Nothing the police has picked up at the house has pointed to this theory.

 

[CatchingClues]

I believe that Dr. G is one of the best ME ever, but why can't the cause of death be the tape itself? It is, after all, wrapped around the area where one could conclude it was there to suffocate the child. Why does it have to be more complicated than that? If the accused only intended to silence the child for a brief time, then why wrap the tape all the way around her head? How was she planning on getting the very strong tape off later? That's where the "accident" to me, becomes more like an intended murder. And I hope the DA puts the death penalty back on the table.

 

[robotdog]

she was careless at BEST and COLD BLOODED at worst

she didnt want much to do with her daughter either way

i hate her

 

[cinny2227]

I believe that Dr. G is one of the best ME ever, but why can't the cause of death be the tape itself? It is, after all, wrapped around the area where one could conclude it was there to suffocate the child. Why does it have to be more complicated than that? If the accused only intended to silence the child for a brief time, then why wrap the tape all the way around her head? How was she planning on getting the very strong tape off later? That's where the "accident" to me, becomes more like an intended murder. And I hope the DA puts the death penalty back on the table.

I try to keep up with this case every day but with going to work and school full time it is hard. Where did we learn that there was duct tape wrapped completly around her head?

 

[JWG]

I try to keep up with this case every day but with going to work and school full time it is hard. Where did we learn that there was duct tape wrapped completly around her head?

It is a rumor that has spread through the media. It has not been confirmed by LE, as far as I know.

Let's think about this for a second.

• We are told by some unknown source close to the investigation that duct tape was found wrapped around the skull.

• The duct tape was presumably put there while the child was either alive (to kill her) or soon after death (to stop decompisitional fluids from leaking). Either way, the tape was placed over skin and attached to skin, not bone.

• The ME stresses that the remains are completely skeletonized. No visible soft tissue remains. Presumably, this means no soft tissue on the duct tape as well.

• The soft tissue has a thickness of about 1/2 inch to greater than 1 inch on the skull. If the tissue were gone, the tape would not be attached to the skull and in fact there would be enough slack in the tape to allow the skull to roll out.

IMHO, the bag had tape around it but not the skull. When MR jostled the bag and a skull rolled out, it landed where strands of tape were. CSI takes photos of the scene and the prosecution sees them. Prosecution decides to leak the "information" to add further pressure on the defense.