Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[kiki the parrot]

I'm not following your reasoning here. LE 'allowed' lesser charges? What does that mean? They filed murder charges. If they filed murder charges, but really believed it was (or even could of been) an accident, then that would be horribly unethical. They (at least in this case) don't strike me as the unethical types. But maybe that's just me.




What do drowning statistics have to do with this case or the facts of this case? I see no legit connection (I do see some leaps of logic based on scanty evidence). If she accidently drowned in the pool, LE would not have charged KC with murder. Period. End of story. Again, what evidence do you have that they (LE) do not? Should they take a look at the drowning stats?

Merry Christmas to you too (smile). No need to be rude. The fact remains that LE included the lesser child neglect, and manslaughter charges, for the jury. And I am quite sure they did so because they have indeed considered this possibility so wish to give jurors that option. The facts are also that: their backyard is still believed to be Caylee's place of death; that cadaver dogs hit on the backyard; that the timeline's been narrowed down, and there are only so many scenarios which could have occurred there during that short span of approx 60 minutes while KC and Caylee were at the home; that the gate was later found mysteriously open; their ladder reportedly discovered inexplicably reattached; and her swimsuit was disposed of w little Caylee's remains. And it will not be "Period. End of story." until KC has been tried by a jury of peers, rational people capable of reasoning and weighing the totality of evidence, and not prone to making the sort of "leaps" to which you refer... As always, JMHO

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE AND EVERY BLESSING IN THE NEW YEAR​

:blowkiss:

 

[publius]

Merry Christmas to you too (smile). No need to be rude. The fact remains that LE included the lesser child neglect, and manslaughter charges, for the jury. And I am quite certain they did so because they have indeed considered this possibility so wish to give jurors that option. The facts are also that: their backyard is still believed to be Caylee's place of death; that cadaver dogs hit on the backyard; that the timeline's been narrowed down, and there are only so many scenarios which could have occurred there during that short span of approx 60 minutes while KC and Caylee were at the home; that the gate was later found mysteriously open; their ladder reportedly discovered inexplicably reattached; and her swimsuit was disposed of w little Caylee's remains. And it will not be "Period. End of story." until KC has been tried by a jury of peers, rational people capable of reasoning and weighing the totality of evidence, and not prone to making the sort of "leaps" to which you refer... As always, JMHO

I'm not trying to be rude. I just need an explanation for why LE filed murder charges if they had evidence suggesting Caylee drowned accidently. Please explain. Everyone who thinks this was an accident keeps dancing around answering this simple question. So, I'll ask it one more time: Why would LE file murder charges against KC if Caylee in fact accidently drowned?

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I am just trying to figure out what evidence there was on/with the remains that have led them say it was a homicide?

They called it a homicide before they found her. KC was charged with the murder.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I'm not trying to be rude. I just need an explanation for why LE filed murder charges if they had evidence suggesting Caylee drowned accidently. Please explain. Everyone who thinks this was an accident keeps dancing around answering this simple question. So, I'll ask it one more time: Why would LE file murder charges against KC if Caylee in fact accidently drowned?

There is NOTHING to indicate she drowned accidentally or purposely. It is certainly too late now to try to make that lie work.

 

[norr]

I'm not trying to be rude. I just need an explanation for why LE filed murder charges if they had evidence suggesting Caylee drowned accidently. Please explain. Everyone who thinks this was an accident keeps dancing around answering this simple question. So, I'll ask it one more time: Why would LE file murder charges against KC if Caylee in fact accidently drowned?

The Charging Authority has a problem imho. First it was a Death Penalty case.... then that came off and down to Murder 1. All with no body and now we have a body that can not yield a great deal of info.

 

[Lanie]

(bold mine) I agree duct tape was placed subsequent to death and that it could have been used initially to prevent leakage from bag. But depending upon original placement, there is another possible explanation. It could also have been meant to distance herself and suggest a kidnapping, ie deflect her involvement (including but not limited to negligence scenario). IF scene was contrived to create the impression that Caylee had died not from her mother's neglect but instead a brutal death at the hands of somebody else, she would deliberately try to create such an appearance and just as concluded now by LE and TM, would have chosen a disposal vs burial site. Only the flaw in this desperate cover-up was assuming remains would be discovered sooner, in the condition she left them. So now it is left to LE (and to our imaginations) to piece together and envision exactly what it might have looked like initially--and what evidence was destroyed during those six months beneath water and under the Florida heat. I maintained from early on that KC had likely destroyed the only evidence which might have been capable of later proving the circumstances of her daughter's death. Now, with a staging involved, she appears to have tightened that noose. JMO

Here's where I have a problem with all the 'staged to look like a kidnapping' and 'wanted the body to be found sooner' theories. The things I am posting here are established facts, not my opinion.
Casey lied to everyone about where Caylee was for 31 days.
Evidence of decomp determined to be at the stage of approximately 2.6 days was found in the trunk of the car.
I won't go into the gory details, other than it has been stated by experts, and it can be researched, what kind of decomp takes place under the conditions at the time in 2.6 days.
Casey did not initiate reporting Caylee missing, Cindy did, after 31 days.
Cindy contacted Amy with a phone number she found in the car, went to the mall and picked Amy up, and Amy took Cindy to where Casey was. This led to the confrontations about where Caylee was, which led to Casey finally admitting Caylee had been 'missing' for 31 days. I'm including this under fact, as this is the story everyone involved told, and I doubt they are all lying about it.
Where in this line of fact does it look like Casey was wanting Caylee found sooner to support her nanny kidnap story?
Lanie

Why is there a 'thumb's down' thing at the top of my post????

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Sorry, kiki, although I like your parrot, I have to disagree with you. You mentioned considering the totality of the evidence, and that's exactly why you should check out ziggy's post. KC's behavior in the time period Caylee was missing is remarkable when compared to the response one would expect from a parent whose child died of natural causes, or some type of accident.

Also, if this were the case, this would all be over already. Any halfway decent attorney, upon learning their client was innocent of murder and guilty only to neglect, or involuntary manslaughter, etc. would have advised his client to deal with the DA. JB would have given authorities the location of the body, waaaay sooner, because it would have corroborated her story. For example, if Caylee drowned accidentally, and they could have recovered the body back in August, they would have probably been able to prove that it was an accident. JB could have probably gotten her a lesser sentence on other charges and gotten the murder charges dropped entirely.

Not to mention that an innocent person has a conscience, and empathy for others. I just don't believe an innocent KC could live with herself knowing her daughter was all alone in that field. I don't believe a KC with a conscience can string GA and CA along for months with the hope that Caylee is alive if she knew otherwise.

I have read an awful lot on here, and all the doc dumps, etc.

Bottom line, there are three possible scenarios, IMHO. It was an accident, Casey killed Caylee, or someone else killed Caylee. I guess I would ask the people who theorize accident what in what we know makes the accident scenario the more likely scenario? KC's behavior, statements to LE, even the manner in which Caylee was discarded seem to suggest otherwise. In weighing the evidence, what other evidence is strong enough for the accident proponents to set these circumstances aside? I'm open to the possibility I missed something, but the accident thing is just not adding up for me.

 

[Boston]

The Charging Authority has a problem imho. First it was a Death Penalty case.... then that came off and down to Murder 1. All with no body and now we have a body that can not yield a great deal of info.

I have to disagree with your statement about the Body "not proving a great deal of info".

I think LE had an overwhelming circumstantial case against Casey before the Body was found & now they most likely will have physical & forensic evidence to add to that as well.

I have a felling that we've only heard about a small portion of the Prosecutions case & there is much more to come.

 

[norr]

I have to disagree with your statement about the Body "not proving a great deal of info".

I think LE had an overwhelming circumstantial case against Casey before the Body was found & now they most likely will have physical & forensic evidence to add to that as well.

I have a felling that we've only heard about a small portion of the Prosecutions case & there is much more to come.

Hey Boston

That remark came on the heels of the Judge and a team of lawyers talking on Fox News that the body could not provide time of death, manner of death and something else. They said it was an update from Orlando, etc.... and then went on to remark about the over charging going on, etc. I don't remember every word. But it does bother me that at one time or another this has been charged as DP to what almost seems like Jaywalking j/k. Then proceeded to talk about the meter guy being a huge problem for the Prosecution.

 

[impatientredhead]

Sorry, kiki, although I like your parrot, I have to disagree with you. You mentioned considering the totality of the evidence, and that's exactly why you should check out ziggy's post. KC's behavior in the time period Caylee was missing is remarkable when compared to the response one would expect from a parent whose child died of natural causes, or some type of accident.

Also, if this were the case, this would all be over already. Any halfway decent attorney, upon learning their client was innocent of murder and guilty only to neglect, or involuntary manslaughter, etc. would have advised his client to deal with the DA. JB would have given authorities the location of the body, waaaay sooner, because it would have corroborated her story. For example, if Caylee drowned accidentally, and they could have recovered the body back in August, they would have probably been able to prove that it was an accident. JB could have probably gotten her a lesser sentence on other charges and gotten the murder charges dropped entirely.

Not to mention that an innocent person has a conscience, and empathy for others. I just don't believe an innocent KC could live with herself knowing her daughter was all alone in that field. I don't believe a KC with a conscience can string GA and CA along for months with the hope that Caylee is alive if she knew otherwise.

I have read an awful lot on here, and all the doc dumps, etc.

Bottom line, there are three possible scenarios, IMHO. It was an accident, Casey killed Caylee, or someone else killed Caylee. I guess I would ask the people who theorize accident what in what we know makes the accident scenario the more likely scenario? KC's behavior, statements to LE, even the manner in which Caylee was discarded seem to suggest otherwise. In weighing the evidence, what other evidence is strong enough for the accident proponents to set these circumstances aside? I'm open to the possibility I missed something, but the accident thing is just not adding up for me.

:clap::clap: Totally agree. I posted a link in another thread to a woman in Florida that dumped her 83 year old mother's body, wrapped in garbage bags out on the road somewhere and cashed her retirement checks during the time it took them to find the body which decomposed so badly they had to ID her from a serial number on her hip replacement. Daughter lied when they came knocking, finally fessed up, 4 years probation. In Florida. If this was an accident she would have saved her *advertiser censored* by now.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Sorry, kiki, although I like your parrot, I have to disagree with you. You mentioned considering the totality of the evidence, and that's exactly why you should check out ziggy's post. KC's behavior in the time period Caylee was missing is remarkable when compared to the response one would expect from a parent whose child died of natural causes, or some type of accident.

Also, if this were the case, this would all be over already. Any halfway decent attorney, upon learning their client was innocent of murder and guilty only to neglect, or involuntary manslaughter, etc. would have advised his client to deal with the DA. JB would have given authorities the location of the body, waaaay sooner, because it would have corroborated her story. For example, if Caylee drowned accidentally, and they could have recovered the body back in August, they would have probably been able to prove that it was an accident. JB could have probably gotten her a lesser sentence on other charges and gotten the murder charges dropped entirely.

Not to mention that an innocent person has a conscience, and empathy for others. I just don't believe an innocent KC could live with herself knowing her daughter was all alone in that field. I don't believe a KC with a conscience can string GA and CA along for months with the hope that Caylee is alive if she knew otherwise.

I have read an awful lot on here, and all the doc dumps, etc.

Bottom line, there are three possible scenarios, IMHO. It was an accident, Casey killed Caylee, or someone else killed Caylee. I guess I would ask the people who theorize accident what in what we know makes the accident scenario the more likely scenario? KC's behavior, statements to LE, even the manner in which Caylee was discarded seem to suggest otherwise. In weighing the evidence, what other evidence is strong enough for the accident proponents to set these circumstances aside? I'm open to the possibility I missed something, but the accident thing is just not adding up for me.

Great post. I agree.

 

[Crafti]

I think she put the duct tape over Caylees mouth and around her head and put her in the trunk "out of her way" to go be with Tony on the 16th. I don't think someone's first choice to keep body fluids from leaking out any further would be to use duct tape. Too up close and horrific for this girl. She'd have to really face what she had done to do this, people like this don't think they are "bad" and refuse to see anything that would show that. I also don't think duct tape would have stuck very well if fluids were leaking out - especially to still have some skin attached to the tape.

I believe she came home the next day and backed in the driveway to get her out of the trunk and found her dead.

I believe she did bury her in a shallow grave in the backyard under the playhouse on the 18th. Decided that wasn't good enough and dug her up on the 20th and put back in the car trunk. This would explain the dirt and maggots in her trunk.

I believe little Caylee was in the trunk still, covered with clothing and other items on the 24th during the confrontation with GA about the gas cans and when she left she immediately and quickly dumped her body in a panic.

I believe that she started telling Amy about the smell the next day to have an excuse for the smell if confronted about it. Unfortunately, the smell continued to get worse and she decided to throw out some of the other stuff in the trunk - hence the "got rid of the smell" comment to Amy on the 27th.

I'm thinking she may have returned to where she dumped little Caylee to leave her other items from the trunk, and saw/smelled what was left of Caylee, was upset / not wanting to face what she had done and abandoned the car and called Tony to "get away from reality". I do think she left her purse there in plain view hoping someone would steal the car which would hopefully leave prints or be able to claim someone else killed Caylee.

Unfortunately, I was involved with someone that I convinced to go for psychological testing a couple of years ago due to my experience and knowledge of them and they were diagnosed as having antisocial personality disorder. Talking with him was way too much like the crazy stuff Casey has been claiming. Reading her interviews is just like conversations I would have with him. Even when faced with the fact of their lies, they just can't admit it. No concern for others, just what they want at any cost. INFURIATING.

One thing I find interesting is I haven't seen anyone mention this yet (might have missed it somewhere), but, if she did tape her mouth shut to leave her in the trunk, prior to death, this would have been done so she couldn't call out and draw attention, right? Meaning she would have still been alive. What would have prevented little Caylee from possibly removing the tape from her mouth when she awoke? I have a feeling her arms were also probably bound and possibly her feet to prevent her from kicking as well. Horrific, but makes a certain amount of sense if these were her reasons for taping her mouth.

In Caseys interview she said that she received a call from Caylee on July 15th at around noon. She said all Caylee wanted to talk about was this book she had been reading and her shoes. Bet the shoes were near the book as well.

 

[sweetwater]

I hate her, too, Robotdog.

And I can't stand the accident hypothesis, at all. Besides, Caylee's death has been ruled a HOMICIDE. I wonder about the significance of the ME's statement that says there was no trauma to bones, antemortem. What about postmortem? How come Caylee's little head, all on it's lonesome own, rolled out of that bag?
I think Casey murdered Caylee, either out in the wetlands swamp or in her bedroom, and then took her body out to the yard to hide for a few days. She needed to go see Tony. There was never any remorse, or panic, it was just convenient to leave her there. I think Casey might have gone swimming in the pool to relax, think about her new tatoo, buying household supplies for Tony's apartment, some new shorts at Target..
What was it that Scarlett O'hara, another classic narcissist, said.."I can't think about that right now. If I do, I'll go crazy. I'll think about that tomorrow." Casey just stretched it all out for a few extra tomorrows.

Look into Casey' eyes. They are devoid of humanity. Look at her at Target, or at the Bank. No nerves, no anxiety. No humanity. She wasn't afraid of Cindy, she wasn't afraid of getting caught, she wasn't even afraid of driving LE over to her phony office at Universal.
She is a predator. She is only afraid of losing control of her prey- Tony, JB, whoever she needs to use at the moment. That's why she doesn't care about seeing her folks- they're a "huge waste" of her time, especially now.

 

[Lanie]

I have to disagree with your statement about the Body "not proving a great deal of info".

I think LE had an overwhelming circumstantial case against Casey before the Body was found & now they most likely will have physical & forensic evidence to add to that as well.

I have a felling that we've only heard about a small portion of the Prosecutions case & there is much more to come.

I wanted to add, I think the body proves the number 1 most important fact in this case, which is Caylee is dead, beyond any doubt whatsoever. Had the body not been found before trial, it is my belief the defense would have been trying everything under the sun to cast reasonable doubt on the state's case Caylee was deceased, and while I don't think they would have been successful, even we had the 'Caylee is alive' threads, and Casey might have gotten a lighter sentence.
Lanie

 

[Lanie]

I refuse to believe Caylee was in the trunk of that car for more than 2 days, and that would have to be right after her death.
This was the middle of June in Florida. I don't care what state you live in, in the summer, your trunk temperature is going to be a lot higher than the temp outside. High temperature speeds decomp. Caylee was approximately 35 pounds. After a couple of days, the smell might not have been noticeable from the outside if the car was completely shut up, but inside the car would have been unbearable. Factor in the humidity, so there is no chance the body mummified. Any more time in that car would have the smell everywhere, closed up or not.
At the tow yard, all that was left in the car to smell was a small stain, and probably residual smell from when Caylee actually was in the car, and tow yard guy said he noticed the car smelled (shut up) sometime in the week before it was picked up. I say Caylee in the car for even 5 days would have had anyone on the road by Casey's car stopped at a red light with their window down gagging, much less people parking next to it, etc. It wouldn't have just been a whiff of a foul odor, it would have been overwhelming.
Lanie

 

[blupencl]

Does this bug anybody else?

I am afraid those treasures were placed with Caylee's body not to toss them out, but to "comfort" her. Do you all think that Casey would do this? It doesn't seem to fit with her "profile" in my mind.

At the first of the case I thought she acted alone. Now I am afraid she may have had help with the disposal.

 

[Elley Mae]

I believe there was a fight, we heard about it early on IIRC Greta show M Furman, and then from Jesse through Lee, it was probably the first time Cindy put her hands on Casey. Casey stealing from her Grandparents was probably the straw that broke the camels back for Cindy. If it is true that Cindy had talked to a councilor about kicking Casey to the curb, she could have told Casey that night.Cindy probably told Casey that she was going to try to get custody.At that time she had only known Tony for a few weeks, he was not the reason for Caylee's demise, it was the threat of not having a bargaining chip with Cindy.Caylee was there in the middle of this and probably was upset at what she saw.Casey probably lost it with Caylee wanting to stay or go home, she probably killed her in a rage. JMO

 

[MD MOMMY]

I am just trying to figure out what evidence there was on/with the remains that have led them say it was a homicide?

Dr. G stated several things that led them to the conclusion it was a homicide. It was not JUST the remains that led them there. IRRC she listed several things that led them to this conclusion, I know circumstantial evidence was among the things she listed. Go back and listen to the presser where she speaks, it makes more sense when you hear what she is precisely saying IMO.

 

[MD MOMMY]

Does this bug anybody else?

I am afraid those treasures were placed with Caylee's body not to toss them out, but to "comfort" her. Do you all think that Casey would do this? It doesn't seem to fit with her "profile" in my mind.

At the first of the case I thought she acted alone. Now I am afraid she may have had help with the disposal.

IMO if she were trying to comfort her, Caylee's doll would have been included and it wasn't. It is said by many that this was her FAVORITE thing that she didn't like to be without. I think just like everything else, Casey acted in a panic and just kind of threw whatever she saw in that bag with Caylee. I don't give KC enough credit to possibly think of Caylee at all while disposing of her. JMO

 

[IRule254]

Dr. G stated several things that led them to the conclusion it was a homicide. It was not JUST the remains that led them there. IRRC she listed several things that led them to this conclusion, I know circumstantial evidence was among the things she listed. Go back and listen to the presser where she speaks, it makes more sense when you hear what she is precisely saying IMO.

I agree. I thought what Dr G said (or didn't say) was particularly interesting. Perhaps there was some other evidence there that led her to believe 100% that this child did not die of natural causes or the elusive gum that Geraldo keeps talking about My guess, blood stained clothes. Just because there were no bone nics doesn't mean she couldn't have been cut and bled out. (sorry ) If there was enough blood on "something" , enough blood to cause her not to be able to live anymore, would Dr G still have ruled it "undetermined means"? Anybody know?
I believe that she chunked the other stuff out because it smelled & that after she killed Caylee she threw that stuff in the trunk with her because she couldn't stand to look at it, tried to pretend it didn't happen.... but why in the heck didn't she burn that stuff or drive very far away and throw it in a dumpster or something!!!! WHY in the wold would she leave it in the same place she buried Caylee-that just confuses me.