Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

[Theonly1]

I know it was mentioned in the psychology thread a long time ago:

I don't know that Casey did not get an extra "charge" out of life after Caylee died. Maybe it was RELIEF to her. The fact that she was nonplussed and snugged up to TonE at Blockbuster that fateful night and watched a very violent horror movie (in which one scene has a dead body found in the trunk of a car) shows she is indeed cold-blooded. But the humping and bumping seen at the nightclubs, the buying of beer and lingerie on a stolen credit card, the tattoo, and all of it smacks of someone with a new lease on life--someone who is HAPPIER than they had ever been before. I hate to "go there" but maybe she even got a sexual charge out of killing Caylee. Or maybe it was the relief of having what she may have perceived as an albatross around her neck lifted.

 

[ibyoungr]

:You all got me thinking...

kc may have stormed out of the house with Caylee on the 15th. I remember Cindy lying and telling us she tucked both Caylee and kc in bed that evening. (So "Walton" of her).

BUT Caylee was not wearing PJ's. They found shorts and t-shirt. So she may have left early evening; grabbed the doll and bag that Cindy had, and took her to the car, parked somewhere; she could not take her to TL's. She may have had to keep her quiet while she talked to her new man....she stayed in the car and talked on the phone all night long. She was on the phone from 7:00pm till almost 3:00am with TL. Her cell was called at 7:30am..Cindy may have been giving her a wake-up call.

I always thought she did this in her bedroom but reading this thread, I am going to change my mind, at least, for now.

Keep in mind the cell phone pings in the vicinity of her parents home. I do not think she stormed out. This family is so dysfunctional that after the HUGE argument, they said "I know, sweetie, I am sorry" and left it at that. Casey went to her room with Caylee and did not come back out till after Cindy left.

George seen her in a pink shirt and jean shorts.. caylee was found with a pink shirt. NOT THE ONE FROM THE FATHER'S DAY video... He said she had on jean shorts... but during the age of 2 during potty training days it is not unusual to change shorts on a regular basis. I think she was in the pink "Big Trouble" shirt with Jean shorts and then the shorts were changed to the striped shorts... because she wet her pants during naptime. 1-3 pm has Casey back at the house after GA left. Computer forensics and cell pings have her at the house. Caylee also did not have shoes on... probably taken off when Casey her laid her down for a nap.

 

[ibyoungr]

Oh, and the shorts found at the scene appear to match what Caylee had on at the Nursing Home.

I think they look like plain white shorts at the nursing home. See pics...

The one in the pic and video that the police say that look like the ones at the scene of the crime are Pink with dark stripes. My daughter is 1 week older than Caylee and has a pair of shorts like this from Target- Circo brand. (well she did last summer.. I will try to see if I can find them and post a pic) I also posted the "Big Trouble" t-shirt so everyone can get a visual of what she was wearing at the nursing home vs what was found at the scene.

 

[ibyoungr]

I've often wondered if the duct tape was placed on Caylees mouth while KC was on the phone w/ TonE the night of the 15th/early morning 16th. KC was probably telling TonE she was at work , instead of at her house. I think KC chose the "working story" as opposed to the truth , b/c she feared he would drive over there. And she definitely didn't need him showing up over there after her and CA's blow up.

The tape could have been placed on the babys mouth while she was sleeping (just incase she did wake up) , or little Caylee could have woke up crying , and KC in a panic grabbed some tape to hush her, so TonE couldn't hear her crying.

KC continues with her conversation to TonE , and later on she falls asleep (could TonE and KC both have fallen asleep while on the phone together?) forgetting about Caylee w/ tape on her mouth , until she awakens to it. (Maybe Caylee gasping for air is what CA heard , when she said she heard them breathing, the morning of the 16th?) Horrible thought!!

The tape was put on the mouth because she knew it was never coming off..."like since the kid is dead it doesn't matter how it is stuck on...." because I will just say the nanny did it... "a kidnapper won't be careful where tape is put it has to look like a kidnapping."

 

[ibyoungr]

I can't see KC putting the duct tape on and doing the deed while her parents were in the house. What if CA came into the room in the morning to kiss them goodbye? Or for any other reason? I think it would be too risky for KC. I think she either didn't come home that night and did it on the 15th, or did it on the 16th after GA left for work. I would love to know what TL has to say about the night of the 15th. Or if she called anyone to babysit on the 16th. THAT would certainly give us a better indication of time of death.

We have cell pings that put her at Anthony's home all night and computer forensics to show the family desktop was being used after GA went to work and while Cindy was at work.

Read up on JWG's computer and cell phone forensics... quite interesting and as an IT person.. I will say CORRECT.

 

[Rumpole]

Best pics I have found to support you, not sure if shorts any clearer?

Also probable T-shirt found with remains.

View attachment 3143 View attachment 3144

 

[Theonly1]

Best pics I have found to support you, not sure if shorts any clearer?

Also probable T-shirt found with remains.

View attachment 3143

View attachment 3144

eeek. Pointing the finger like to Casey, "You killed me and I was wearing THIS SHIRT!"

 

[ibyoungr]

Thanks HP! It does help to get a visual of what she was wearing that day. Many people I think visualize her in what the seen her in most which was the FD video.

Also... I can not figure out why my pics are posting so SMALL! You have to click on them and then they get a little bigger.

 

[KenoshaKid]

We have cell pings that put her at Anthony's home all night and computer forensics to show the family desktop was being used after GA went to work and while Cindy was at work.

Read up on JWG's computer and cell phone forensics... quite interesting and as an IT person.. I will say CORRECT.

Can the cell pings be so exact that they can place her in the home vs in her car nearby?

 

[jon_burrows]

For some reason, KC stayed in her room until CA left for work. I don't think that phone call to KC's cell was KC trying to locate her cell phone. If it was, CA would have seen KC that morning. Instead, CA stated that she didn't see her but knew she was there because she heard "breathing" through the door. I think KC had to stay in the room until CA left because Caylee was already dead. That phone call to KC's cell at 7:30 am was CA's last attempt to speak to KC before she left for work.
KC bided her time and remained quiet behind the closed door; she knew CA would have to leave soon. After CA left for work KC made her escape. She either had Caylee all wrapped up in her blanket and carried her out or she had already placed her in the trunk in the early am hours.

By the time July 15th came around, CA and GA had put two and two together and realized that Caylee died the night or early am after the fight on the 15th. That's why they concocted the story of seeing KC at 12:50 pm on the 16th. There's no way Caylee stayed in that bedroom until the afternoon. She was already dead.

After looking at the floor plan of their house it seems odd that Cindy would go out of her way to listen for breathing at Casey's door before she went to work. Cindy's bedroom is on the opposite side of the house and closer to the garage.

I wonder if LE asked any of the guys who slept with Casey and Caylee if either one of them breathed loudly enough to be heard through a closed door.

 

[Darla]

whisperer,

she still could have done this at the home. She was on the computer on the 16th at least up to 3:00 pm. I don't know if she stayed there or not that night of the 15th, but she returned after GA went to work and my guess is, Caylee was with her. Some thing happened that afternoon to bring this to a head. JMO

Ok - Now that makes me think maybe she did as the tabloid mag said and let her drown. She then used the shovel to get her out of the pool ?

 

[Marina2]

After looking at the floor plan of their house it seems odd that Cindy would go out of her way to listen for breathing at Casey's door before she went to work. Cindy's bedroom is on the opposite side of the house and closer to the garage.

I wonder if LE asked any of the guys who slept with Casey and Caylee if either one of them breathed loudly enough to be heard through a closed door.

I've always found this statement to be odd. It's as if she was trying to establish to LE that they were both alive that morning. That's how you describe people who are alive...they're breathing. GA's, imo, fabricated story of seeing them both, this statement from CA, and the fact that nobody saw Caylee until after noon makes me think she was already dead that morning. I think GA and CA have come to this conclusion as well and don't want to admit anything was out of the ordinary the day that KC left home. They wanted LE to look elsewhere for evidence.

 

[Rumpole]

After looking at the floor plan of their house it seems odd that Cindy would go out of her way to listen for breathing at Casey's door before she went to work. Cindy's bedroom is on the opposite side of the house and closer to the garage.

I wonder if LE asked any of the guys who slept with Casey and Caylee if either one of them breathed loudly enough to be heard through a closed door.

Why ask just one?

They could take a poll.

Statistically more accurate if 20 to 30 people sampled.

 

[BondJamesBond]

FWIW...a quick litmus test of any theory is to take the date & time of death it suggests...add 74 hours...then see if the resulting date & time presented Casey with the opportunity to bag and/or dispose of the body.

For example:

Theory A: Date & Time O.D. = 6/16 Midnight (12:00AM) + 74 hrs = 6/19 2AM (bag and/or dispose)

Theory B: Date & Time O.D. = 6/16 Noon (12:00PM) + 74 hrs = 6/19 2PM (bag and/or dispose)

The 74hrs isn't exact, but, a good approximation you can use. Hope that helps.

 

[Rumpole]

The mini timeline around TOD and bag/dump would be a good thing to pin down.

But I guess we don't have enough facts to pin things down.

If you add 7hrs to your B example you get KC at least rebagging the body around 9pm 19th. Perhaps dumping it then, or the next day (20th) or even later (24th).

I only include that particular example having read your phone analysis and suggestion of critical time 6:36pm to 7:06 pm on the 16th before going to Blockbuster. My guess being that around 7:00 was when KC put Caylee in the trunk. I think alive, and she died some time after that?

 

[BondJamesBond]

The mini timeline around TOD and bag/dump would be a good thing to pin down.

But I guess we don't have enough facts to pin things down.

If you add 7hrs to your B example you get KC at least rebagging the body around 9pm 19th. Perhaps dumping it then, or the next day (20th) or even later (24th).

I only include that particular example having read your phone analysis and suggestion of critical time 6:36pm to 7:06 pm on the 16th before going to Blockbuster. My guess being that around 7:00 was when KC put Caylee in the trunk. I think alive, and she died some time after that?

...can only pin things down to a certain standard of proof @ this point obviously. Plenty of room for +/-.

For reference, the post you refer to regarding why this timing (6/16 6:34-7:06PM) is here.

Perhaps selfishly (for my own sanity), I've taken the report of no fingerprints found inside the trunk as an indication Caylee was not conscious and capable of using her hands if placed in the trunk alive. I'll allow she could have been unconscious and the conditions of the trunk caused or aggravated her condition resulting in medical death sometime >7PM. Again, selfishly important for me not wanting Caylee to suffer the anguish consciously - admitted fault, full disclosure and all. I'll also admit, IIRC, the bones from the lower arms and lower legs being found in/around what appears to be the initial disposal location with the bags & skull - and trunk of the body, etc. in another location - may remotely suggest Caylee was bound and unable to use her hands if conscious - thus far no report of duct tape with these particular bones has been made and allows me to keep on with a not-bound theory.

So...based on the info we have its certainly possible she went into the trunk alive. If not sedated it would seem she would have been struggling and put Casey at-risk of being discovered, hence, I'd offer that as a consideration. That being said...I think we're of the same ilk on this...essentially indistinguishable without more information.

FWIW, I used the 6/23 outta gas thread & Lexus=Tony in the Case Analysis Forum to show why I believe there's a sufficiently strong case to be made that the body was outta the trunk 6/19 ~8PM.

 

[Rumpole]

...can only pin things down to a certain standard of proof @ this point obviously. Plenty of room for +/-.

For reference, the post you refer to regarding why this timing (6/16 6:34-7:06PM) is here.

Perhaps selfishly (for my own sanity), I've taken the report of no fingerprints found inside the trunk as an indication Caylee was not conscious and capable of using her hands if placed in the trunk alive. I'll allow she could have been unconscious and the conditions of the trunk caused or aggravated her condition resulting in medical death sometime >7PM. Again, selfishly important for me not wanting Caylee to suffer the anguish consciously - admitted fault, full disclosure and all. I'll also admit, IIRC, the bones from the lower arms and lower legs being found in/around what appears to be the initial disposal location with the bags & skull - and trunk of the body, etc. in another location - may remotely suggest Caylee was bound and unable to use her hands if conscious - thus far no report of duct tape with these particular bones has been made and allows me to keep on with a not-bound theory.

So...based on the info we have its certainly possible she went into the trunk alive. If not sedated it would seem she would have been struggling and put Casey at-risk of being discovered, hence, I'd offer that as a consideration. That being said...I think we're of the same ilk on this...essentially indistinguishable without more information.

FWIW, I used the 6/23 outta gas thread & Lexus=Tony in the Case Analysis Forum to show why I believe there's a sufficiently strong case to be made that the body was outta the trunk 6/19 ~8PM.

I understand that some of the imagery evoked does one's head in.

I find I have to have a special mental place for "Caylee", separate from the "Caylee Case" and the puzzle of it, and the gruesome details.

I have not ruled out Caylee being drugged or bound with more tape.

Also there are not a lot of places inside a trunk where you might find finger prints - not on carpet type surfaces for instance.
Caylee initially alive when placed in trunk is just a possibility. I await AL testimony about the night of 16th. Would be telling if KC had to "pop out" to her car?

 

[BondJamesBond]

I understand that some of the imagery evoked does one's head in.

I find I have to have a special mental place for "Caylee", separate from the "Caylee Case" and the puzzle of it, and the gruesome details.

*snip*

Amen. Amen.

 

[Skully]

I think because of the cell pings and the computer usage, that Caylee died around 3 pm June 16th, and her body was re bagged and disposed of on June 19th. I don't have the cell pings now, but I remember that on June 18th and June 19th there was hours of down time. I think she was looking for where to put the body and then sleeping and regrouping. It's been a long time since I looked at the pings and maps.

 

[christee]

Ok - Now that makes me think maybe she did as the tabloid mag said and let her drown. She then used the shovel to get her out of the pool ?

Used a shovel...Eck!

I guess since she had plans with AL later she didn't want to mess up her Couiffe by jumping in the pool and trying to save her daughter!!

I'm sorry-the thought just makes me :sick:
I'll be good, I promise