norest4thewicked
True Crime Writer
On the other hand, I DO believe that DB is involved...many of us do...so why is that presumptuous?
This is very difficult....however, (if DB confessed now...)
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On the other hand, I DO believe that DB is involved...many of us do...so why is that presumptuous?
norest4thewicked
True Crime Writer
Because there are always going to be people who go for the underdog in a situation. I'm not trying to make light of this by saying that, but it's true. Some people like to argue. Heck, I like a good, clean argument now and again; but there are personalities out there who will defy all logic and facts just to argue a point. And, when you address a question, these questions will go unanswered, because it's easier to ignore them since there is really no actual reasoning going into it.
Before everyone has a hissy fit over this, I am speaking of no one person in general and am suggesting that this fits a certain personality of people who live in our everyday lives. This also, as always, is my own opinion.
ThoughtFox
Expecting the Unexpected
I have trouble getting past her silly defense of
"I don't see the problem with me having my grown-up time."
Seriously? When a baby is missing and possibly dead?
That's my problem with forgiving her. Why would someone with that childish type of mentality ever admit anything? She can clearly rationalize all her bad behavior and lack of responsibility, especially on the first night she was in charge of the house while Lisa's father worked.
"I don't see the problem with me having my grown-up time."
Seriously? When a baby is missing and possibly dead?
That's my problem with forgiving her. Why would someone with that childish type of mentality ever admit anything? She can clearly rationalize all her bad behavior and lack of responsibility, especially on the first night she was in charge of the house while Lisa's father worked.
I am on the fence and this is my opinion (not saying innocence or guilt that isn't what being on the fence means. You can see it both ways or their isn't enough evidence for you to proclaim guilt. It doesn't make you pro DB because I have said before I don't think she is mother of the year or that she wasn't involved I just don't know).
We have no idea what these parents are doing. We don't know if LE told the family not to search themselves or why they haven't. If they believe someone kidnapped their baby what exactly would they search for? Where would they search? I have no idea what they are thinking but I will say that them not searching is not what should be the biggest factor. They have had so many searches of the neighborhood done by LE and the national guard IIRC. Maybe they don't want to go searching for a body-I wouldn't want to. If they think someone took her for what ever reason I don't see them searching around for a body they are thinking she is alive somewhere or they just don't want to be the ones to find the body of their child not odd imo.
JI has an alibi. He was at work and 911 was called shortly after he got home. There is no fact to say he isn't innocent. No evidence he did anything so why think he is guilty?
I am a fact person I see so many people post statistics well they are not facts. For me there just isn't enough facts that DB or JI did it. Does it mean I think its impossible no it doesn't. It also doesn't mean I agree with everything they have done or how things have went. It doesn't mean I would be surprised if more evidence came out against them but until it does in my eyes they are victims of a crime. I don't see how it could have been done by DB alone and I don't know how anyone could have/would have helped her. I don't see how they could have gotten rid of the body or how LE hasn't found enough to arrest them if they did. There isn't 31 days in this story. There isn't anyone saying anything bad about DB or her parenting. I have seen a lot of people judge her and I can see why they do I really can but I chose not to. That night was the perfect night for many scenarios and I am keeping my mind open until I see more evidence.
A lot of people don't see problems with it in their daily life though. I grew up with it and see people I grew up around do it all the time. They get home from work have friends over and get drunk. I personally don't drink and see a lot wrong with it but there are people out there who really don't. It isn't illegal and they feel they are home and can do what they please. Kids are running around playing while the adults talk/play cards ect. Its normal for them so they don't understand why others don't see it that way.
In da Middle
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and might I add that we have all seen how she just blurts out the wrong thing when answering a question. I don't see how she didn't do this very same thing when being questioned by seasoned professionals and not cave and get herself arrested right then and there. That lack of filter should have gotten her busted already if she did it, I think.
ThoughtFox
Expecting the Unexpected
Well I am not against adults having adult beverages, and I never said I was. I am judging her not by her drinking, but by her silly excuses for her baby going missing.
You are mistaken about me because I am not judging people for drinking liquor or wine or beer - I couldn't care less. I have a glass of wine whenever I want, thank you very much, and I know that it's not "illegal," nor would I ever tell anyone of legal age not to have a drink. My favorite drink is bourbon, and I don't really care who knows it.
I'm not taking care of little children anymore, though. And that's my point.
I didn't drink much when my babies were little, and we didn't keep it around the house. But that's our choice, and not meant to be judgment on anyone else.
I also don't mix prescription drugs with alcohol - isn't that the case with Lisa's Mom?
I'm just saying that when Lisa's mother talked about her "adult time" she knew good and well that she had blacked out the night before. She planned an "adult party" while her significant other was gone - nothing wrong with that either if she had waited till the kids were asleep and safe in bed.
But that's not what happened and the whole world knows it. There are facts in this case that can't be ignored. She justified getting drunk as if the whole world revolved around her, and passed out.
More facts - the door was open, the lights were on. Something chaotic seems to have been going on that night. And a baby is missing now for months while the parents have clammed up. Lame excuses don't cut it with me.
nursebeeme
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everyone can post their own opinion but do NOT try to guess or infer the opinions of other posters... this has been a warning before.
oh_gal
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Thankfully, I have never been in DB's or JI's situation, with a missing child, which is perhaps why it is hard for me to understand their actions and/or easy for me to criticize them (i.e. I have not walked in their shoes); but if my child were missing, I would be a mess, and frantic, and doing whatever I could to find them, even if the police told me not to look. I guess that's why it confounds me. Along with the fact that they (the parents) on national tv (Dr. Phil) beg everyone to look for their daughter, when it seems that they, themselves, are not looking for her.
I appreciate any insight anyone has regarding why they are not looking -- or if they are, and none of us know it; or why the police might tell them not to look, but then they (DB and JI) would ask the public to look.
TIA!
I appreciate any insight anyone has regarding why they are not looking -- or if they are, and none of us know it; or why the police might tell them not to look, but then they (DB and JI) would ask the public to look.
TIA!
hambirg
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<snipped>
The very definition of a statistic is a fact.
sta·tis·tic [stuh-tis-tik]
noun Statistics .
a numerical fact or datum, especially one computed from a sample.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/statistic
oh_gal
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(above bbm)
I guess (imo) that were I in their shoes, I would just feel like I had to do something, look somewhere, even if I'd already looked 1,997 times before, for some clue...something. Especially if I had absolutely no idea where my child was. No area would be off limits to search, or search again, and again.
hambirg
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I'd like to know that as well. I thoroughly don't expect them to be out looking around the woods or knocking on people's doors. But I don't understand why they aren't actively working with some of the organizations out there. Or maybe they are?
melissasmom
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I guess I need you to clarify what you mean by "not looking". Parents of a missing child should never go on a physical search. Can you imagine if your child was missing and you were searching in a field or woods and you found them deceased? That would be horrific. There is information in the resource thread here at WS about what to do if your child is missing. Going on "searches" is not recommended.
melissasmom
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Well, the way it sounds from what they said, they believe that Lisa is alive and with someone. So if they don't think she is deceased, then they probably feel that calling TES or other organizations is not necessary. They appear to be looking for a live baby.
Not saying I agree with this, this is just what I got from that Dr. Phil interview.
ETA: I am talking about SAR groups, obviously. Are there groups that look for kidnapped children? I'm sure there are.
oh_gal
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You know, I never knew that, although you'd think I would have read it here before. So I thank you for your insight, because it helps me to view them not searching in a new (and possibly kinder) light.
SmoothOperator
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I would really have to know the circumstances before I could even contemplate what it is that I would personally feel about who And what happened... My choice on whether to forgive her or not is irrelevant to the situation and I believe that those whose opinions do matter to her and them[fam& friends] would really have to know and most importantly UNDERSTAND what and how those circumstances and baby Lisa's death came to be..
But since we are specifically discussing our own personal opinions, views, and whether or not we'd choose to forgive DBshould she confess(or should it be proven that DB is responsible for Lisa's death.. which Imo this avenue of no confession, but rather evidence proving her guilt would very likely have completely opposite reactions of ALL NEGATIVE and very very few positive as in forgiving)..
For me, personally I must say that not only is finding out that DB is involved via confession or otherwise the only issue here but Imo what would be most disturbing, disappointing, etc, etc, etc whatever other negative connotation you'd like to call it but Imo what would be most bothersome for me in finding out she indeed is responsible for Lisa's death would be her entire demeanor and attitude that has been very consistent from the onset..
MEANING her extremely arrogant, irritated, and at times even dismissive altogether demeanor that DB displays would bring on an entire new meaning to me... You see its one thing to display these type demeanors and attitudes if/when you are an absolutely innocent parent who has not done harm to your child, nor involved with her disappearance yet are continually and consistently bashed and accused of being the individual responsible for your child's *disappearance*.. Quite likely death... For me, tho not personally very likely how I would handle the situation(of course only speculating my reaction in theory) if I were to ever have the misfortune of my being in a position of innocence with my beloved child out there missing.. So while I can speculate that I don't believe I'd act with those demeanors and attitudes nonetheless I still however can see where some individuals would React in a defensive manner with the arrogant and haughty attitude in their knowing that they have zero to do with their child's disappearance yet are continually berated, and raked over the coals as an evil baby killer as guilty as sin..
I can accept and even somewhat understand her demeanors and attitude with the above described being the case...
BUT WHAT I WILL NOT UNDERSTAND, AND WHAT WILL ACTUALLY TAKE ON AN ENTIRE NEW MEANING FOR ME IS THAT IF I LEARN VIA CONFESSION OR VIA THE EVIDENCE PROVES THAT DB IS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR LISA'S DEATH!!! and I believe it goes without saying that if DB is indeed the perp in whatever capacity it does mean that Lisa is deceased.. THEREFORE LOOKING AT DB'S DEMEANOR, ATTITUDE, ACTIONS& REACTIONS THROUGH THE LENSE OF DB BEING RESPONSIBLE IT TAKES ON AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MEANING.. A SINISTER, EVIL, AND EXTREMELY DARK MEANING!!!
IF DB is the killer of baby Lisa and I say killer because I'm sorry but if this child died even of unintended causes from her intoxication... Even so it is the fact that she has from the very beginning to the present she has kept the arrogant attitude that does not fit with a mom who got drunk and her child accidently died while and by the hand of the intoxicated mom.. I'm sorry but the two do not even begin to coincide.. Not even in the very least do these demeanors "jive" with accidental/unintended death.. I cannot in my mind's eye see those type demeanors being present in a horribly tragic, accidental death of one's child.. *shakes head repeatedly*.. Just cannot see it..
For me it's either innocent and anger/defense/frustration rolled into one and out comes these defiant/defensive type demeanors and attitudes..
Or something very, very, very different and completely/totally opposite of innocence.. And that I pray for baby Lisa's sake that it is NOT THIS..
I guess only time will tell us but again, for me those arrogant/haughty demeanors that many of us have spoken about many times for over the past 4months that we all see in DB.. Well I guess only in time will we know what exactly those demeanors are indicative of???..... a frustrated, innocent parent??...or something completely opposite... a guilty, cold hearted, killer parent????
All Jmo, tho!
But since we are specifically discussing our own personal opinions, views, and whether or not we'd choose to forgive DBshould she confess(or should it be proven that DB is responsible for Lisa's death.. which Imo this avenue of no confession, but rather evidence proving her guilt would very likely have completely opposite reactions of ALL NEGATIVE and very very few positive as in forgiving)..
For me, personally I must say that not only is finding out that DB is involved via confession or otherwise the only issue here but Imo what would be most disturbing, disappointing, etc, etc, etc whatever other negative connotation you'd like to call it but Imo what would be most bothersome for me in finding out she indeed is responsible for Lisa's death would be her entire demeanor and attitude that has been very consistent from the onset..
MEANING her extremely arrogant, irritated, and at times even dismissive altogether demeanor that DB displays would bring on an entire new meaning to me... You see its one thing to display these type demeanors and attitudes if/when you are an absolutely innocent parent who has not done harm to your child, nor involved with her disappearance yet are continually and consistently bashed and accused of being the individual responsible for your child's *disappearance*.. Quite likely death... For me, tho not personally very likely how I would handle the situation(of course only speculating my reaction in theory) if I were to ever have the misfortune of my being in a position of innocence with my beloved child out there missing.. So while I can speculate that I don't believe I'd act with those demeanors and attitudes nonetheless I still however can see where some individuals would React in a defensive manner with the arrogant and haughty attitude in their knowing that they have zero to do with their child's disappearance yet are continually berated, and raked over the coals as an evil baby killer as guilty as sin..
I can accept and even somewhat understand her demeanors and attitude with the above described being the case...
BUT WHAT I WILL NOT UNDERSTAND, AND WHAT WILL ACTUALLY TAKE ON AN ENTIRE NEW MEANING FOR ME IS THAT IF I LEARN VIA CONFESSION OR VIA THE EVIDENCE PROVES THAT DB IS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR LISA'S DEATH!!! and I believe it goes without saying that if DB is indeed the perp in whatever capacity it does mean that Lisa is deceased.. THEREFORE LOOKING AT DB'S DEMEANOR, ATTITUDE, ACTIONS& REACTIONS THROUGH THE LENSE OF DB BEING RESPONSIBLE IT TAKES ON AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MEANING.. A SINISTER, EVIL, AND EXTREMELY DARK MEANING!!!
IF DB is the killer of baby Lisa and I say killer because I'm sorry but if this child died even of unintended causes from her intoxication... Even so it is the fact that she has from the very beginning to the present she has kept the arrogant attitude that does not fit with a mom who got drunk and her child accidently died while and by the hand of the intoxicated mom.. I'm sorry but the two do not even begin to coincide.. Not even in the very least do these demeanors "jive" with accidental/unintended death.. I cannot in my mind's eye see those type demeanors being present in a horribly tragic, accidental death of one's child.. *shakes head repeatedly*.. Just cannot see it..
For me it's either innocent and anger/defense/frustration rolled into one and out comes these defiant/defensive type demeanors and attitudes..
Or something very, very, very different and completely/totally opposite of innocence.. And that I pray for baby Lisa's sake that it is NOT THIS..
I guess only time will tell us but again, for me those arrogant/haughty demeanors that many of us have spoken about many times for over the past 4months that we all see in DB.. Well I guess only in time will we know what exactly those demeanors are indicative of???..... a frustrated, innocent parent??...or something completely opposite... a guilty, cold hearted, killer parent????
All Jmo, tho!
melissasmom
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Yes he has. I think he is doing it because he can't find anyone else who will. It's been so long. Poor man.
vlpate
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There is no evidence that DB did anything to Lisa because there is no Lisa, and at this point, even if she is found, any evidence there would be, is likely gone.
vlpate
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Most here on the missing children's forums know that parents are never allowed to physically search in the beginning - so it would be my guess that they, and I, mean "look" for her. After so many months, they are allowed to search, although I am not positive on the time. I've been on searches with parents, but it was quite a while after the child went missing.
DB said herself they waited until the leads LE already had to die down before going public (Dr. Phil). That makes no sense. You constantly get in front of whatever media will have you and beg for the public to look for your child. Who cares what anyone thinks about you - at least they're THINKING about the case.
They have a benefactor who is obviously filthy rich - why didn't the benefactor hire a private investigator licensed to practice in KC? Why doesn't the one they do have follow up on the REAL leads in the case? Has Tac or Wild Bill talked to the witnesses who saw a man with a baby? No, they haven't. BS was hired, IMO, to protect the family and to do damage control - he's not following leads because he knows they are not going to lead anywhere. It's a joke, a complete and utter joke.