TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #30

Discussion in 'Holly Bobo' started by bessie, Oct 14, 2011.

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  1. Frogzilla

    Frogzilla New Member

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    Well I would first say I am not trying to be too over the top about this, but there are many possibilities and trying to eliminate as many as possible is not a bad thing. It is a house of cards to build a theory on HB phone having to be tossed first. Cell phone gps is not very accurate in rural areas without many towers. Also, if you disconnect the battery, the gps will not be activated.
    If you are familiar with any given area, you would know the best routes to take if you need to be quick or if you need to not be seen. You generally know where people live and you also know which roads are less traveled. In that kind of rural area, there are many lesser traveled roads. Also, I do not want to speculate to much about the direction they initially went, because there are so many possible routes not including the woods (which is a whole other topic).
    Try to do the math of what your saying, using the timeline from the last MSM article. Let's say camo and and HB walk into the woods at aprox. 7:55AM. If they immediately got into a vehicle and headed toward the Easter find, that would put them there about 8:05-8:10. LE is at the Bobo house at about 8:05. That means from 8:05 on, LE and most likely other worried locals head towards the Bobo home from what we can assume is multiple directions. The perp then drives on a commonly traveled road to toss a phone out the window, with a victim in tow, and continues to drive several miles north and turn off west to make his way to gooch road. It takes at least a couple minutes to get to gooch rd. from this direction, passing several homes in the process and by this time it is probably 8:15-8:20. He then stops to toss the lunchbag and make sure he is THEN ready to leave the area? 20-25 minutes has passed since they left the Bobo property and they are still driving around the local community?
    So he has no real escape plan, eventually throws a phone out the window, is paranoid about taking the highway initially, takes a circuitous route away from the highway to place the lunchbag (because he is worried about being pulled over with the lunchbag even though HB is still in his vehicle) and make sure HB is secured, then he feels okay to then travel on the highway? I would not say this type of scenario is impossible, but that would be equal to not having a plan at all. Doesn't it just seem simpler to toss all her items at once and take off, or just take off and worry about the items later?
    My point is that it is much easier/simpler to speculate about the items as being placed for purpose, other than mixing and matching which items are tossed where and when.
     
  2. shefner

    shefner Member Since 2008

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    The timeline given in this case is carp. It would be almost impossible on many levels.
     
  3. houndstooth

    houndstooth Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
    Why wasn't there photos or facsimiles of items she must have had with her?
    Why type of jewelry she must have been wearing?
    The model of cellphone?
    What keys on her keyring and a description of the keyring itself?
    A wallet with driver's license and other ID. If these were disposed of and not found, say in a
    dumpster, what's the point of scattering other items in plain sight?
    (Considering these lack of descriptions in retrospect).

    I actually was confused by the type of searches that were conducted
    immediately following.
    They seemed like the type of searches that you would conduct if you were
    looking for someone who had merely become "lost".
    But, I can think of no good reason for having volunteers combing the backroads in an abduction case. What if they stumbled onto a body?
    Wouldn't they have been traumatized? What if they stumbled onto important
    evidence? Would they pick it up to examine it to see whether or not it might be important?

    If they were looking for specific items, how come these were not reported and described to the general public to be on the lookout for, as well as, the
    victim herself.

    The type of searches you would have thought would have been done right away, since there was only a small amount of lead time, would have been roadblocks that weren't ordered until DAYS later.

    What items have been found, and which items have LE not accounted for?

    Did she have a bookbag and a separate lunchbag? What books and other items did she have that day?

    Her class and test were to start at 8am. Is this correct?
    She should have been on the road by 7:45?

    Did she have a full day of classes every day? Or was there a morning class and an afternoon class? Has her schedule ever been posted?
    What courses she took and how many books would have been with her?
     
  4. Frogzilla

    Frogzilla New Member

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    It was reported early on that searchers were told types of items to look for, but it did not seem to be very specific, such as things you may find in a woman's purse. We have no idea what items she did have with her and even less of an idea what things may still be missing. IMO if LE did not want to go into detail about specific items, then they had their reasons, such as making sure items were not disturbed and brought into the police station. The sheriff is quoted in an article as saying that items were found along tree lines, so we can assume more than just the lunchbag and Easter search were found. As an example, I could see situations where LE does not want people to know exactly what their looking for, especially if they plan on utilizing volunteer searches. If HB had a white brush and LE told people to be on the lookout for a brush, then if somebody handed in a black brush you know it's not relative to the case, but that person handing the item in would have no idea if it is relevant or not. When you factor in that LE may have felt the abductor was a local and evidence was possibly planted early on, then this tactic makes more sense. It is another way to control the flow of information. If somebody had found an item they knew 100% belonged to HB, don't you think they would of blabbed about it to everyone? Oh wait, some people already did in this case. The way LE did it, if somebody was to blab about found evidence, they know exactly who found it.
    In regards to using large scale volunteer searches, i'm not sure there was a viable alternative. The terrain is very difficult and local LE has very little manpower. If a couple thousand volunteers took a couple of weeks to comb parts of the areas, how long would it of taken a handful of LE? Doesn't it kind of make sense for LE to search "hot spots" on their own and use the volunteers to search general areas? Also, do we really think that LE would send volunteers out into the woods to find a possibly armed and dangerous abductor? And would you rather take this risk that volunteers may stumble onto a body rather than risk not finding a body that may be there?
    The issue of the roadblocks is an easy answer IMO. It just wasn't a real option. There is no button to push that makes squad cars and officers appear at major intersections. The local LE has VERY limited manpower and there were so many possible escape routes for the abductor, not to mention the possibility of the woods being used. We are not talking about city streets where LE has the manpower and ability to close off escape routes.
    Honestly there is so much more to this case than trying to bash the local LE because they didn't perform how one would expect that morning. I will say the sheriff crying in front of the camera shortly after HB was abducted was not to encouraging. IMO there were some glaring mistakes made by everyone involved, but I don't think not going into great detail about what HB may have had with her or randomly putting up roadblocks on 10% of the possible escape routes were the issue. Also, there is probably so much to this story that we are not aware of that may have effected how people acted that morning.
     
  5. Eileen730

    Eileen730 Former Member

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    Im still trying to figure out who threatened her.
    Were all those phone calls that morning something more than hunting on grandmas property?
    did Holly break up with Drew?

    Clint has said in just about every interview he thought it was DREW!
    This is the only consistant statement made in this entire story the only thing that has not changed....JMO
     
  6. Eileen730

    Eileen730 Former Member

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    I think the lunchpurse was to throw LE off the trail.
    I think they will find her closer to home.
    Why she carried them off with her when she was supposed to be in fear for her life is beyond me. They should have been found where the blood was
    JMO
     
  7. Eileen730

    Eileen730 Former Member

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    I cant imagine anyone just abducting someone and then tossing that persons things around the county. MO
     
  8. Carla Lashelle

    Carla Lashelle New Member

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    None of what you ask about has ever been posted as far as details of her day, belongings...

    We do not know exactly what her schedule was during the week, what she would or would not have carried, etc.

    We do know LE has found other items besides the lunch bag although they have not been verified or described. One reason no public description had been released is that the items she had with her were recovered. Why ask the public to look for something you found in the first few days?
     
  9. Eileen730

    Eileen730 Former Member

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    Ya know Carla when my kids had tests and exams they didnt take any books with them those days I dont know about nursing exams...

    Id think (if it were me) my license and stuff would be in the lunch purse
    maybe a tube of lipstick. money Less to carry
     
  10. Frogzilla

    Frogzilla New Member

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    Let's be clear of the basics we are working with. HB items were taken with her and items were supposedly found in different areas around the county. Right?
    Just a few of thoughts to consider. I can't argue about looking at the lunchbag as a way to throw of searches, but you said you did not understand why somebody would toss items around the county, think you may have cleared up your own confusion.
    IMO she will probably not be located close to her home or by any found evidence, if she was cadaver dogs would of found her quickly, it wasn't like they came in years later to canvass the entire area. Also, if LE did not think she was removed from the area in a vehicle, then why did they ask people to look for other's cleaning/selling their vehicles?
    And lastly, your right that it seems off that HB items were not found at her home, or close to it, or all together in a spot or none of them found at all. If camo man and HB did spend at least 10 minutes together at the home, do we think he realized she was carrying other things with her? Maybe he knew what time to be there to abduct her because he knew when she went to school? Did he think she would go to school with only the clothes on her back? Maybe he was worried his DNA had somehow gotten onto her lunchbag or other personal items, so they had to come too.
    It can only go two ways, either the perp threw items out as he was making his escape with HB (the known finds would take you on a very circuitous route and were found more than a week apart during massive searches of the general area) or the items were later planted (without HB in his vehicle, any evidence left to find is planted.). There is no in between. Also remember the supposed Easter find came on a tip, not from organized searches. It is all speculation and only LE has the info to know if evidence was tampered with, altered or planted. Just remember, planting evidence (by LE or a criminal) means trying to change the perception of an event that has already happened, many times it is a reactionary measure, to try and obscure or enhance another element of a crime.
     
  11. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know of a link where Mom said she was "relieved"?
     
  12. wishuwerehere

    wishuwerehere Member

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    I do believe that the items found were placed so they would be found. The perp got away with the abduction of Holly, so why the need to “plant evidence?” Maybe someone is trying to make this crime seem as it is something that it is not.

    jmo
     
  13. Wonless

    Wonless New Member

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    Oh ok, so your point is that its "easier" to speculate about something that we don't know and can't prove than it is to speculate about something we don't know and can't prove. I see.

    My point is that this perp committed a kidnapping from the victims own home in broad daylight, and that I think its just possible that he/she was scared and in a fight or flight mode trying to escape the area, and may not have been sitting around playing mind games with LE as far as placing evidence and phoning in tips. One sounds more like form follows function, and one sounds more like to much TV.
    JMO
     
  14. Carla Lashelle

    Carla Lashelle New Member

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    That goes way back like 5 months or more. I think people misread the meaning of her words. It wasnt like she was relieved like glad something was over but just glad some more evidence was found (to move the case along).
     
  15. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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    That is what I believe as well, yet many people keep posting that something was "found" that made her "relieved" and I would like to see a link for that, if true. I don't believe it happened or that she said she was relieved by anything other than maybe the fact that she thought the searches would continue if an item had been found, rather than scale back, if nothing was found, for example.

    I can't help wondering, on another note, what the Bobos think when (if) they see Michelle Parker's family all over the place, talking to anyone and everyone, LE, media, anyone who will listen, about their missing daughter, the whole family has been terrifically outspoken. They are showing a determination to find out what happened to their child, much like Lauren Spiers' parents have done. I can't help thinking they are taking very bad advice by staying so silent and seemingly, submissive.
     
  16. Frogzilla

    Frogzilla New Member

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    This is all an exercise in speculation, if there wasn't any all we would see are reposts of the FBI poster. There probably isn't enough factual information available in this case to rule out Elmer Fudd or Bugs Bunny.
    I like to see any and all ideas brought forward and in the process people will generally accept or refute ideas. If somebody refutes your idea, ignore them or keep a dialogue with them to see what fits and what does not. I like to present theories and alternatives, especially when a theory has an obvious flip side or when a theory has many unanswered questions and no conclusions to draw from.
    In regards to your post, actually that is exactly what I am saying. My whole point was that you can form big picture scenarios with one version, the other version requires looking at puzzle pieces without being able to see any kind of full picture. As in, oh I think they found x item here and y item there, I guess that is the path the abductor took (if it wasn't and it didn't lead you to his doorstep, where do you go from there? Why weren't her items found together? What motivation would there be to scatter items as you are leaving?) Those are just a few of the questions that would need plausible reasons for me to move forward progressing that type of theory. When I ask myself those types of questions, I seem to keep coming back to planted evidence being able to answer most of them, so that in turn leads to a whole other side of theories. The only answer provided so far in our exchanges is that the perp was possibly scared and panicked. It is a possibility, but it leads to other questions. The abductor has the nerve to ambush and forcibly remove a young woman from her home, but then panics when he has her to himself? How does this panic relate to scattering items? Does he dig through her lunchbag/purse and pick out one item and toss it as he goes along? Is it possible this same type of panic could cause somebody to rush their plan and feel the need to misdirect after the fact?
    Also, trying to deflect is the sign of a weak argument. I am not trying to pick a fight, but your theory has the abductor within miles of HB home driving around the area almost 20 minutes after the abduction, I am not exactly sure what form or function that would be derived from. That is some very serious panic.
     
  17. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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    Watching an episode of Paula Zahn's show on the ID channel that took place some years back in NM, and the woman, who went missing from her home, was found about 5 days later in a shallow grave in the woods near her home, by a dog who was out for a walk with his owners. He smelled the body and dug at the spot. So apparently even non-trained dogs can find bodies. This woman could easily have never been found, if not for a curious dog. Just an observation.
     
  18. Mr. Noatak

    Mr. Noatak New Member

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    My opinions only, no facts here:

    "Yesterday, this days madness did prepare,
    tomorrows silence, triumph, or despair!"

    (from the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam)

    Websleuths is about triumph, not silence or despair. We speculate because the crimes are unsolved and require speculation and because we wish to be triumphant. But I do not disagree with your scenario. I analyze cases in terms of the mathematical probabilities. It is possible that the perpetrator was panicked and behaved irrationally. It is slightly more probable that the perpetrator had a method behind their madness. I have considered that the crime was totally unplanned, just a hunter passing through the woods. Also possible, but not as probable as a planned event. Yes, this crime occurred in broad daylight, but broad daylight also coincides with when Holly is leaving the house for her car.

    It is possible that the perpetrator knew her schedule, thought she was alone at home, but apparently did not break into the house where a crime could have been committed out-of-sight. This puzzles me. If you know her brother is at home, you do not even attempt the crime. If you believe her brother is not at home, you do not hang around outside the house for 10 minutes, you go inside. Any ideas regarding this conundrum?
     
  19. Mr. Noatak

    Mr. Noatak New Member

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    My opinions only, no facts here:

    Frogzilla, I still slightly favor the possibility that Holly will be found within a couple of miles of her house. But to be fair, my second choice would be removal entirely from the local area. Something I mentioned in a much earlier post was the risk that the perpetrator could be involved with the public searches. This would, of course, bring discovered evidence into question.
     
  20. ~n/t~

    ~n/t~ New Member

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    I saw your post yesterday so I googled Karen Bobo, relieved and all I got were links to other boards where posters were commenting about it. I'm not sure if it was in a written article or if it was said verbally in an interview. I tried to locate the origin but was unsuccessful. I'll keep trying. I'm just as curious about it.
     
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