Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[Estelle]

The Psychology of Pistorius

Success guilt, success aggression and fear of retaliation by Dr Andrew Hodges

"How past trauma contributes greatly to his rage—and self-sabotage. His early physical trauma played a crucial role in his inability to handle success and specifically in the shooting of his girlfriend. One thing is for sure: Oscar Pistorius’ feel-good story has changed forever. Never again will he be looked at the same way. He has taken a huge step down from the pedestal on which the world had placed him. Many of his supporters remain in massive denial. It is hard to give up a hero even to bad behavior."

http://www.profilingsuccess.net/2013/02/24/the-blade-runner-another-success-tragedy/

 

[sicknote]

I've been thinking what Frank must have heard in Oscars version.

If cricket bat strikes sound like gunshots and gun shots sound like cricket bat strikes, then Frank must have been mega confused. If the first set of bangs woke him up, he must have thought Reeva was attacking Oscar. Oscar was screaming like a woman until the second set of bangs. Then Frank heard help....help....help followed by loud wailing in a mans voice. Frank rushed to get dressed expecting Oscar to be riddled with bullet holes or beaten half to death with a cricket bat.

No wonder Frank is saying nothing, he knows nobody would believe him.

 

[Karmady]

Hahaha ..

Here is the Charge Sheet

Here's the Indictment

Here is the State's Heads of Argument

Here is the defense "Heads of Argument"

Here is the Bill of Further Particulars

Thank you! I was originally wanting to verify the I/everything "is fine" statement. May be dense, but what document does the Bill of Further Particulars amend. I'm not seeing a Bill of Particulars.

 

[PPKik]

Bill of Particulars and Further Bill of Particulars. Sorry, I went a little acronym happy there lol

Yeah, you did!! :scared: Bureau of Prisons and Federal Bureau of Prisons.

 

[Cymbaline]

bingo!

I've been looking for something OP said in response to one of Nel's questions. I found the kneeling testimony you were looking for accidentally.

 

[ColonelMustard]

I have reported uncivil posts to mods and encourage others to do the same. I love a good argument.....when the focus is on disagreement about interpretation of evidence or whatnot. Ridiculing others' points or the persons posting them is anathema to me. There are thousands of websites to hang out on if someone wants to make it personal or just vent. This ain't one of them.

Personally I feel zero emotion about this case, and never have felt any. As some other long term members have said, for me it just isn't all that absorbing or interesting. As much as anything I'm here to play devil's advocate. And no, I don't mean that literally.

I'm new here and I'm learning. Do you mind if I ask which trials you have felt emotion toward/about and few words in each case about what they were and why?

Thanks!

 

[PPKik]

Thank you! I was originally wanting to verify the I/everything "is fine" statement. May be dense, but what document does the Bill of Further Particulars amend. I'm not seeing a Bill of Particulars.

Here is a link that may or may not be helpful as some of these docs are hard to read. Wouldn't the Bill of Particulars be the same as the Charges or Charge Sheet?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/210201606/Oscar-Pistorius-charge-sheet

ETA: Bill of particulars
Definition: a bill that a defendant may request in which the prosecution sets out in detail the facts forming the basis for the criminal charges against the defendant

http://research.lawyers.com/glossary/bill-of-particulars.html

 

[ColonelMustard]

Giles last year I posted a CNN/Robyn Curnow interview with OP. At the 1 minute mark he demonstrated how quickly he could put on his prosthetic legs. I timed the action --- it took less than 2 sec per leg ..I don't think I can put on my shoes that fast.

Here's the post
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - General Discussion Thread #3

but unfortunately CNN or Robyn has removed the video.

I'm pretty sure I posted an active link to that interview a few days ago, if you can find it.

 

[Val1]

Ok, I think I understand what you're saying, and yes there was some confusion about the exact times that Stipp called and which time he reached security. The records indicated that he got through on the first call and it lasted for 16 seconds (?) and the second call was null. Maybe that was a pocket dial or something?

In any event, Nel has stipulated that the second bangs were at 3:17. He said it in open court and it's in his bill of further particulars (can't remember if it was in his charging statement or bail pleading).

I think the reason Nel is not disputing that time is because Johnson's phone records that he made available to the state and defense - and about which he testified - show that he called the wrong security at 3:16 and was on the phone 58 seconds. And he didn't hear the bangs until after right after that phone call.

Maybe Nel will argue something different in closing arguments, but I'm not even sure he would be allowed to do that since he has agreed to the 3:17 time and didn't question Johnson on his phone records or give any indication that the times were incorrect.

Actually, Nel did specify just yesterday iirc that he will argue that 3:16.

3:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4nvlUQw2Kc&list=TLgRcOOlkAqN5LON0Noe_KN4OH_EwIu2ZX

 

[JudgeJudi]

It would be logical to use the correct figures don't you agree? I am assuming you are speaking of the Burger/Johnson's that are 177 meters away not 3 football fields and not the Stipps that were only 72 meters.

So if you are familiar with "hard science" are you saying there is no way those folks heard what happened that night? And if that's the case why has OP had to explain away the exact noises that they heard.

And why would those folks have rung security if they couldn't have heard anything.

 

[ColonelMustard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=onX7NJguuHc

Dwayne Fernandes walking and running on his stumps. He comments on a posters question about OP not being able to balance on his stumps. He says its unlikely he cant balance.

I realize that every person and their stumps is different, but that's REALLY interesting. Thanks for the link.

 

[ColonelMustard]

It's not really Oscars fault. Oscar only screams like a girl when he is killing a girl who isn't screaming. So, technically it's the girls fault because if she was screaming when he shot her, he wouldn't have shot her.


JMO

Great example of circular reasoning!

 

[ColonelMustard]

shhhhh! Don't give him any new ideas, he's tried just about everything else.

lol!!

 

[Karmady]

Here is a link that may or may not be helpful as some of these docs are hard to read. Wouldn't the Bill of Particulars be the same as the Charges or Charge Sheet?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/210201606/Oscar-Pistorius-charge-sheet

Thanks. Idk if the Charges or Charge sheet are the same as the Bill. Minor initially said that the "I'm fine" statement was in the Bill of Particulars, so I was looking for, literally, the "Bill of Particulars." Now I see the "I'm fine" statement in the Bill of Further Particulars, but not in the charging documents. So maybe Minor was referring to the Bill of Further Particulars all along and there is no document called the Bill of Particulars -- which would explain why I couldn't find it. lol

 

[Karmady]

I realize that every person and their stumps is different, but that's REALLY interesting. Thanks for the link.

Agree. If Oscar could use his stumps that well, it could explain why he wouldn't necessarily put on his prosthesis to confront an intruder in his bedroom suite. It also shows that he could kneel on his stumps if, as was stated here, his amputations are the same. And those things are consistent with shots lower down on the door and his testimony about being on his stumps and kneeling down.

Were the bat marks up higher on the door than the shots?

 

[ColonelMustard]

omg I used to love that song resent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Tl-c_puzbM

 

[ColonelMustard]

Why didn't OP phone this friend first? Curiouser and curiouser.

He knew the guy wouldn't come out in bad weather.

 

[ColonelMustard]

But according to OP, it was still in the bowl when he went into the toilet room. So that makes it seem like it fell in after she was shot.

If she had dropped it accidentally, before being shot, she would have retrieved it already, imo. Especially if OP was telling the truth and she was hiding because she thought there were intruders in the house.

Is in the "toilet bowl" being confused with being in the "toilet"? That distinction goofed me up for awhile because in the US, "toilet" means/implies bowl, not room.

 

[katydid23]

I am female. Hope that clears up this issue - I was not around while I was being discussed earlier.

ETA: I always "pictured" you as a male lol

I thought you were a guy for some reason. :blush: oops. But I was truthful about having great respect for you.

 

[katydid23]

That's a good point. How did he finally get up to be outside, then?

BINGO>That;s the million dollar question.