Trial Discussion Thread #36 - 14.05.09 Day 29

[Duchy]

Trooper, I think Barnacle maybe recovering from the welcoming committee party we just had for him. Let's let breathing take place before we carry on with any further questions for our new insider. A few moments at the very least.

As for the prisons...I watched a Ross Kemp doco on SA gangs and their gangs in prisons a few years ago. My Lord. Not a place you'd want to be a permanent resident of no matter which city/town you resided in before incarceration. You maybe able to find them on YT.
I've also seen on other chat sites that it's either the 26's or 28's that have something brewing for OP once he takes up his new right of abode.

:nevermind:

 

[Hope4More]

Then instead of saying "I called to Reeva but she didn't answer" He should of said "I was somewhat deafened and/or having tinnitus, pumped up to the max with adreline, freaked, and not assessing anything very clearly" "so I don't know if she answered.

Not even Oscar is using deafness as his excuse.

What I don't see much of here is taking into account that OP is a human being, not an intellectual abstraction. Whatever happened that night was traumatic in the extreme and happened over a fairly short period of time.

Unless you believe OP is a clinical sociopath who is incapable of experiencing remorse or guilt and who could look at and handle Reeva's dead and mutilated body with no regard , then you need to factor in inconsistency and adreline and fear etc. etc.

 

[fox1lady]

The comment was the posters opinion, now it is being seen as fact Frank was a "slave".
I'm pretty he wasn't called because he is seen to be a slave!

Oscar called him brother and he was more of a home help because of disability.
It's more likely he said he heard nothing because he didn't want to be involved or lie on the stand.

I'm not sure I like OP's use of the words "brother" and "cuz" in relation to black people... seems a bit off but I guess he feels that he somehow has a right to do so

 

[DebinGA]

Well said. I hope that either Nel or the judge make mention of that dig at Dr Stipp during OP's direct. Actually I hope both do. Nel never mentioned it in the cross IIRC.

He's guilty of far worse things but it was an insight into OP's horrible head IMO. If it was deliberate in order to try and discredit the doctor I hope it backfired and if it was just a criticism slipped in for personal reasons then it's just another entry on the lengthening list of 'What factors make Oscar Pistorius such an unsympathetic human being'.

I hope OP magnanimously picking up untidy Reeva's jeans off his bedroom floor makes the list.

 

[james83]

Ahhhh You're right. obviously I wouldn't be good at this....


So he MUST be lying to not admit the deafness!!!

Just a theory, but there certainly must have been some kind of hearing issue following the gunshot's.

 

[Hope4More]

Except that he didn't say anything about his damaged hearing being a factor in why he couldn't remember what he said to Netcare. In fact, he never mentioned his deafness as an issue at all except when it came to Reeva screaming. So I have to assume there was nothing wrong with his hearing when he was making phone calls, otherwise he'd have mentioned it during testimony.

" assume" being the operative word.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Those overhead shots were taken at an angle that makes it hard for me to place the figures. I am hopeful that we will get to see Wollie's laser photos tomorrow. That should make it possible to plot the bullet trajectories. I have not tried to create a 3#D environment with my program. I use it mainly for posing figures and in conjunction with Photoshop. I may give it a try with a home design program once I have more info.

looking at the model you put into the toilet area over mangena's laser shot got me thinking about how close shot b was to the corner wall... and how the angle of the first shot was even more off to the right of that. so i looked at the plans again...

it looks like shot [a] had to be from in front of the wash basins, then allowing for arms at least partly outstretched, and the fact that the gun could not be any closer than 60cm... the shooting zone looks v limited - as does the movement.

imo op was leaning against the wash basins.

 

[lithgow1]

I hope OP magnanimously picking up untidy Reeva's jeans off his bedroom floor makes the list.

I am sure there will be space from the low seventies downwards - up until about then I think his dance card will be filled.

 

[Emz73]

What I don't see much of here is taking into account that OP is a human being, not an intellectual abstraction. Whatever happened that night was traumatic in the extreme and happened over a fairly short period of time.

Unless you believe OP is a clinical sociopath who is incapable of experiencing remorse or guilt and who could look at and handle Reeva's dead and mutilated body with no regard , then you need to factor in inconsistency and adreline and fear etc. etc.

Whats that got to do with answering questions on the stand more than a year later? I was talking about what he answered on the stand....

 

[james83]

Except that he didn't say anything about his damaged hearing being a factor in why he couldn't remember what he said to Netcare. In fact, he never mentioned his deafness as an issue at all except when it came to Reeva screaming. So I have to assume there was nothing wrong with his hearing when he was making phone calls, otherwise he'd have mentioned it during testimony.

Not if the gunshot's happened minutes before the phone call's he wouldn't have, i.e at 3.16.

 

[soozieqtips]

" assume" being the operative word.

Do you mean like you "assume" he couldn't hear?

 

[Emz73]

Just a theory, but there certainly must have been some kind of hearing issue following the gunshot's.

Doesn't mean he didn't hear the screams beforehand though, for 15 minutes. Do the police have ear protectors issued? Don't they just shoot people then have enough hearing to follow instructions, radio in, arrest etc etc. Is it that bad that he couldn't of heard blood curdling screams?

 

[DebinGA]

Like the little Belgian though - he has more sympathy for human foibles IMO.

I love Hercule, at least as played by David Suchet.

Hope Poirot and OP soon have something in common - little grey cell/s.

 

[sicknote]

Just a theory, but there certainly must have been some kind of hearing issue following the gunshot's.

I agree 100%......OP's hearing was that messed up he thought he sounded like a female when he was screaming.

 

[Hope4More]

Well, what an amazing coincidence then that after Reeva stopped screaming, OP stopped shooting. By the way, he didn't ever mention he was 'deafened' by shots in his affidavit or at his plea hearing. It only appears to have come to light more than a year later when he realised how many people had heard Reeva screaming, and needed to have a reason why he didn't hear it. So yes, I made the assumption he could hear, because when someone tells one lie after another after another (in between blaming past wrongdoings on other people and insulting reliable witnesses, like Dr Stipp for example) it kind of destroys their credibility.

Yes, lying hurts credibility. Which is why analysis of objective possibilities is all the more important...

If OP said he was deafened and only 1 in a 100 folks experienced such deafness then I would be very disinclined to believe him. That's not the case so I accord him reasonable doubt on this point.

 

[lithgow1]

I love Hercule, at least as played by David Suchet.

Hope Poirot and OP soon have something in common - little grey cell/s.

Touche DebinGa - very clever and funny.

 

[sicknote]

Just a theory, but there certainly must have been some kind of hearing issue following the gunshot's.

Most certainly true. To the extent he himself thought he sounded like a women for 15 mins.

 

[james83]

Doesn't mean he didn't hear the screams beforehand though, for 15 minutes. Do the police have ear protectors issued? Don't they just shoot people then have enough hearing to follow instructions, radio in, arrest etc etc. Is it that bad that he couldn't of heard blood curdling screams?

No i agree, i don't think he was totally death that he wouldn't have heard screams, i think the opposite.
There would be a huge difference between hearing a woman scream feet away from you then there would be trying to have a telephone conversation.

 

[james83]

Doesn't mean he didn't hear the screams beforehand though, for 15 minutes. Do the police have ear protectors issued? Don't they just shoot people then have enough hearing to follow instructions, radio in, arrest etc etc. Is it that bad that he couldn't of heard blood curdling screams?

Also he had no problem hearing those screams of because he hadn't fired the gun at that stage IMO, he heard those screams loud and clear.

 

[lithgow1]

No i agree, i don't think he was totally death that he wouldn't have heard screams, i think the opposite.
There would be a huge difference between hearing a woman scream feet away from you then there would be trying to have a telephone conversation.

There seems to be conflicting opinion re whether he would have been able to hear or not - from what I gathered his ears would have been ringing but he would still be able to distinguish voices so that would suggest he would certainly hear screams. IIRC it was the firearms lawyer on Sky that some have then dismissed because he was a lawyer, not a firearms expert. I dunno but you'd think a lawyer who specialises in firearms-related cases would have a good idea even if he wasn't a ballistics expert. Lawyers who specialise in maritime law might not be able to hoist a mainsail but I reckon they'd still know a bit about boats.