Trial Discussion Thread #4 - 14.03.10, Day 6

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Mr Saayman used the following arguments to persuade Judge Thokozile Masipa to ban broadcasts of his autopsy report:

"Very personal nature of the findings"
"Graphic details of the injuries have the potential to compromise the dignity of the deceased"
It may "harm the rights" of friends and family of the deceased
"Goes against the morals of society"
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BBM 3 - what does that mean, 'harm the rights of friends and family of the deceased'? Graphic details like what?? What else did that trigger-happy do to her? Brain tissue mingled with hair was pretty graphic. There's something more graphic than that?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-26510897
 
Carol70 said:
Reminds me of the pie eating contest in the S.King movie "The Stand" :D

Anyhow, I don't have to tell you all how outraged I am. Really, we have just had the case of a young 16yr old, raped, killed and dismembered before being thrown in the bush like garbage(the trial is currently ongoing)

Pity this young girls mom wasn't spared the gruesome details and Charmaine Mare also afforded the same dignity in death!
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I remember that case and how it sparked the issue of high rape statistics in SA, if memory serves. Talk about gruesome details :(

I don't understand what is different about this case.
 
Does this mean that other parts of the evidence won't be broadcast because there can't be any reference to the postmortem from now on? What a joke. And the 'gravely personal injuries' suggest something much more sinister than a 'simple' shooting by accident.
 
Under this extreme stress today, I can say via my friend on a phone in SA that Oscar didn't scream like a woman. His retching was just ordinarily of a masculine frequency and pitch..

in case anyone was curious.
 
Trooper said:
Under this extreme stress today, I can say via my friend on a phone in SA that Oscar didn't scream like a woman. His retching was just ordinarily of a masculine frequency and pitch..

in case anyone was curious.
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Could the phone be mistaken? Was the phone in shock?
 
MeeBee said:
I remember that case and how it sparked the issue of high rape statistics in SA, if memory serves. Talk about gruesome details :(

I don't understand what is different about this case.
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Nope, that was Anene Booysen, she was disemboweled. But yes, her too, she was not afforded any dignity in the least, nor were her parents..however, her case did highlight the severity of violence perpetuated against SA women.
 
TMZ and the Daily Mail will have the 'top secret' medical evidence tomorrow morning, most likely.
 
Carol70 said:
There is going to be a ton of speculation going around now, with NOTHING based on fact, that's why doing this has been so detrimental.
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If it's so graphic that no one's allowed to hear any of it, does that mean the public have been kicked out of court for this part? If not, then the ban is just a mockery and is designed (in my opinion) to shield OP from potential attacks on him if people knew what he'd really done (gravely personal injuries). Just speculation of course. But without the facts, there's not much else.
 
Clearly she suffered more than just 3 clean shots. We already know that Dr Stipp testified there was blood and brain matter on Reeva at the time he attended her. Now the public has been told we aren't allowed to hear the horrific details, I have to assume more was going on than just 3 gunshot wounds, and I want to repost what I think was happening while the witnesses heard blood curdling screaming.:

>>I think they were arguing, she took refuge in toilet, Pistorius demanded she come out, but she wouldn't. Pistorius tried to pull open the door, went and got his gun, fired two shots through the panel. Reeva was holding the door shut . Pistorius went and got cricket bat and broke panel, Reeva screaming in fear. Panel broke, and Pistorius fired whilst he was looking straight at her. That's what I think.

Was the door really locked? I actually think it wasn't and that Reeva was having to hold the door shut with all her might, hence being in the position she was and hit in the right side. Had the door been locked, it would have freed her up to shout through the little toilet window. Pistorius claimed the key was on the floor, only retrievable to him after he broke the panel, but really?

Imagine trying to reach a key from behind a door with only a small space from which to reach. Is it possible?<<

I think Pistorius had begun to physically attack her first, and that is why she fled to the toilet.
 

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Carol70 said:
Nope, that was Anene Booysen, she was disemboweled. But yes, her too, she was not afforded any dignity in the least, nor were her parents..however, her case did highlight the severity of violence perpetuated against SA women.
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Oh, I see. Yes, that's the one, I think. I remember the numbers being astronomical and thinking how can any SA woman feel safe?
 
Trooper said:
Carol.. putting the yucky stuff to one side.. what kind of Clout would be needed to get this evidence into a closed court?? I am presuming Clout of course.
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There has never been anything like this before in SA as far as I know. The ONLY time I have ever heard evidence being presented in a closed court has been when it has involved minors! I actually don't know what to think right now!
 
I don't know if it's that there's more than the gunshot wounds or if the wound are just that terrible. I agree that based on the description (gravely personal) it does sound like the shot to her groin was actually to her vaginal area. How awful. Is this the evidence that shows she was standing, facing the door when she was hit?
 
There is a long and sordid history of when Govts say &#8220;this is too gruesome to tell the people about.&#8221;

That's what freedom of the press is all about. There either is or isn't freedom of the press. And historically when it is denied, the real reasons are found out, but years later. The Kennedy assassination is the prime example of the people being denied for 12 years what the Zapruder film really showed.

The Govt lied in 1963, and said JFK was slammed forward in the limo. Made arrangements for only one cub reporter to see the Z-film. He lied and gave statement to all the other reporters that JFK was slammed forward. (Unknown reporter was Dan Rather who went quickly to the top of CBS.)
IN 1975 it was actually Geraldo Rivera who first broadcast on ABC TV showing clearly that JFK was slammed backward from a frontal shot. On youtube, you can find Asst W.H Press Secretary Kilduff telling reporters at Parkland Hospital at 1:30 PM that JFK was shot from the front above his right eye. But for 12 years the Govt said Z-film was &#8220;too gruesome to allow&#8221; the American people to see, and that Kennedy was slammed to the front in the limo.

This case.
Warning Graphic;

Autopsy matters supposedly have been leaked. And we also have the photo of inside the loo when the door photo is clicked that someone else posted a few hours ago.
All the pink matter on the toilet seat is an indication that the exit wound was massive and that brain matter was shot out.

So, JMOOC, the autopsy report will include the entry wound to the skull and a massive exit wound that may have led police on scene to tell reporters that her head must have been bashed in. Again JMOOC. But we did have Det Botha at the BH say IIRC that the only head wounds referred to the bullet. So unless there was earlier lying, this should be it.
Other wounds on her body you all know.

So there shouldn't be any resurrection of the cricket bashing of the skull. But it would help if they allowed the people to actually hear the testimony.

There appears to be no good reason to deny freedom of the press and it should be a concern for all the people of South Africa.
 
Don't know if this has already been posted (sorry if it has) but it's a video clip (from the Mirror) of a guy using a cricket bat to bash down a door (similar to OP's) and then using a gun to shoot through it from a distance of 180 metres.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-updates-3225131

Oscar Pistorius Door: Cricket Bat v Gunshot Sounds - Analysis - YouTube


To be honest, both sounded similar to me, but he conducted the tests in an open field rather than an enclosed building, and the gun shots were slow (to match the cricket bat). I think most of the witnesses said that the gun shots were rapid, too fast to be a bat.
 
Reports are starting to trickle in from reporters at trieal this morning. They can "report" but can't "tweet", apparently. This was filed during the lunch break.

"Steenkamp had been wearing a pair of grey Nike shorts and a sleeveless black vest at the time of the shooting, he told the court.

Saayman noted an entrance and exit wound to Steenkamp's head. There was also an entrance and exit wound to her right arm, just above the elbow. This wound was also scattered with shrapnel.

He added that the shape of the bullets indicated that they had travelled through the door, before hitting Steenkamp.

Saayman also noted a wound to Steenkamp's hand, between her index and middle finger of her left hand."

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/oscar-retches-during-pathologists-testimony
 
soozieqtips said:
Don't know if this has already been posted (sorry if it has) but it's a video clip (from the Mirror) of a guy using a cricket bat to bash down a door (similar to OP's) and then using a gun to shoot through it from a distance of 180 metres.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-updates-3225131

Oscar Pistorius Door: Cricket Bat v Gunshot Sounds - Analysis - YouTube


To be honest, both sounded similar to me, but he conducted the tests in an open field rather than an enclosed building, and the gun shots were slow (to match the cricket bat). I think most of the witnesses said that the gun shots were rapid, too fast to be a bat.
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I have been waiting for someone to do an experiment like this. I admit, they sound similar. The bat sounds are noticeably duller, so from recollection I don't expect Dr. Stipp to remember which was duller. The other witnesses of course only heard one set of sounds. This is compelling though.
 
Mango33 said:
Reports are starting to trickle in from reporters at trieal this morning. They can "report" but can't "tweet", apparently. This was filed during the lunch break.

"Steenkamp had been wearing a pair of grey Nike shorts and a sleeveless black vest at the time of the shooting, he told the court.

Saayman noted an entrance and exit wound to Steenkamp's head. There was also an entrance and exit wound to her right arm, just above the elbow. This wound was also scattered with shrapnel.

He added that the shape of the bullets indicated that they had travelled through the door, before hitting Steenkamp.

Saayman also noted a wound to Steenkamp's hand, between her index and middle finger of her left hand."

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/oscar-retches-during-pathologists-testimony
Click to expand...

Thanks.
Welcome back Mango.
We need to hear the partculars of the head shot for many reasons.
 
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